I know there are lots of talk about OSA on here, but wanting to ask this. If diagnosed with OSA as a student pilot, are you automatically grounded? If so, should I go ahead and start the process of getting all documents in order and planning a a visit to the AME even though my medical is not up for another 4.5 years? Or, an I able to keep flying since I’m just a student in PPL training and have all documentation ready for the next medical? As of now I haven’t been diagnosed, but I have an appt next week and fear the worse.
OSA questions
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idahoflier
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I'm not sure if you are immediately grounded with an OSA diagnosis. My guess is probably yes, at least until you are under treatment for it. But if you're not looking at aviation as a career then consider BasicMed. You can continue flight training, get your PPL and continue flying with BasicMed. All you would need to do is get the physical and pass the online training. This will at least allow you to continue training while you get your medical sorted out.
drummer4468
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Per FAR 61.53, you may not act as PIC if you're aware you have a disqualifying condition. OSA is special-issuance territory, meaning it's a disqualifying condition pending the FAA's decision. So if you get diagnosed and put on a CPAP, etc, you'll need to get all the documentation in order and see an AME. All in all it's not a big deal from what I've read, plenty of pilots have no issues retaining their medical with properly treated and documented OSA. The AME can still issue your cert in-office, and get all the required documentation packed up and sent out. You'll still have a valid medical while you wait for the SI to come through.
That being said, as a student pilot, you are not acting as PIC during dual flight lessons. To that end, your medical status is irrelevant. So feel free to fly to your heart's content with instructors. But unfortunately you will be unable to solo until you get the medical cert sorted. It's tempting to push it off till your next medical, but that can/will come back to bite you in nasty ways once the FAA gets a hold of your paperwork and sees the dates. Take care of your health first and foremost; it gets difficult to be a safe and qualified pilot without restful sleep. I've heard many stories of people astounded at how much better after starting treatment.
Good luck and fly safe!
That being said, as a student pilot, you are not acting as PIC during dual flight lessons. To that end, your medical status is irrelevant. So feel free to fly to your heart's content with instructors. But unfortunately you will be unable to solo until you get the medical cert sorted. It's tempting to push it off till your next medical, but that can/will come back to bite you in nasty ways once the FAA gets a hold of your paperwork and sees the dates. Take care of your health first and foremost; it gets difficult to be a safe and qualified pilot without restful sleep. I've heard many stories of people astounded at how much better after starting treatment.
Good luck and fly safe!
drummer4468
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BasicMed is another option, with a couple of potentially big caveats.
1) I don't know what your flying goals are, but if you want to fly for compensation or hire you'll need at least a 2nd class.
2) BasicMed limits things like how big or fast a plane you can fly, or how many passengers it can carry. Also can't fly in Class A airspace
3) No international flights on BasicMed.
If that's all okay with you, then go for it. Just don't use it as a way to slide untreated OSA under the radar.
1) I don't know what your flying goals are, but if you want to fly for compensation or hire you'll need at least a 2nd class.
2) BasicMed limits things like how big or fast a plane you can fly, or how many passengers it can carry. Also can't fly in Class A airspace
3) No international flights on BasicMed.
If that's all okay with you, then go for it. Just don't use it as a way to slide untreated OSA under the radar.
Thanks for the replies guys. I guess I’m more worried than I should be. I have yet to see a doctor about it, however I think I will hear shortly. My next questions are, if issued a CPAP and diagnosed with OSA, how long is one ground d for while all the paperwork gets in order? I’ve read 30 days I believe, and then a year long of studies with the machine seeing if you get 6 hours of sleep? Who sleeps 6 straight hours? Also, I see some ENT places have a procedure called VOAT? Does anyone know about this or how the FAA views it?
Matthew
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Things have changed since I got my OSA SI, but the reporting requirements have not. I think that 30 days, preferably more, of data is accepted for the first time issuance. After that, you'll need an annual data dump from the machine. It needs to show that >75% (I think it's 75%) of your nights for the past 12 months have been >6hrs of CPAP use. There's no way to tell from the charts that you are actually asleep for those 6 hrs, just that you've been using it for that long. There's also a status report that's required from your treating physician.
So for someone who has a 2nd class whenever I’m diagnosed with OSA I need to ground myself and and I imagine call my AME? Was mainly just trying to get a timeline of how long I might be down if and when this situation pops up.
Matthew
Touchdown! Greaser!
That’s one of the things that’s changed. Used to be you were grounded by a deferred medical, and that took 4-6 months. I *think* now you need 30 days of data and then AME can issue in the office. That’s something an AME should be able to answer.
I've yet to understand why the Basic Med conditions that require an SI should not be the ONLY things that an AME can't issue as CACI. If any state-licensed physician can approve you to fly under Basic Med with, for example, OSA, diabetes, liver disease, simple depression, etc., etc., why must an AME defer you to the Great & Powerful OKC?
idahoflier
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Not sure I'm understanding your question (maybe it was rhetorical) but OSA is a disqualifying condition thus an SI is required for any medical. BasicMed was mandated by congress so the FAA has to follow the law. As far as CACI goes, that's all FAA generated hoops and red tape and they come up with the "logic" in the process....
You're not following me. The FAA, without Congress, can decide CACI conditions. OSA is not one of the listed conditions requiring an SI for Basic Med.
Let's take an example:
An airman has a class 3 medical that is up for renewal and he has recently developed sleep apnea. He has two choices. He can (1) go to an AME to get his class 3 renewed, resulting in a deferral and an eventual SI, or he can (2) go to any physician and get Basic Med without FAA hassles. Either way he's flying with the same medical condition.
So, since any state-licensed physician can let him fly, why shouldn't an AME have to same privilege to approve him in the office (CACI), without deferring to OKC? Serious question.
idahoflier
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Edit: I just realized I didn't answer your question. Here's the TLDR answer:
Because some FAA bureaucrat decided OSA is a Major Safety Issue...
OK, then my original answer still applies. BasicMed was mandated by congress, the FAA has no choice, it must follow the law and OSA wasn't one of the conditions in the law requiring an SI. As far as I know the FAA gets to decide everything regarding the medical certification process through rule making and in their infinite "wisdom" they decided that OSA is a disqualifying condition for a medical certificate. Because of that you have to obtain a SI.
I had a SI for OSA. My symptoms were snoring. I mentioned this to my PCP during an annual physical and the next thing I knew I had an OSA diagnosis and had to start the SI process. This was back in the days before you could get a medical from an AME after a 30 day CPAP report. I had to go through the whole process. I NEVER had sleep issues of any kind. Anyway my SI was for a Second Class. I didn't really need a Second Class but I have a CP and my AME charged the same so I always figured why not? After getting my SI I went to my AME after a year and asked for a Third Class to make things a little easier, i.e. only showing a year's CPAP data and getting another medical cert without an actual physical. It turned out my SI was for a Second Class and wasn't valid for a Third Class and if I wanted a Third Class I would have to apply for a new SI!
Thank God for BasicMed! I'm never going back to the FAA Aeromedical Circus!
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Amen, brother. On Dr. Bruce’s advice, I got Basic Med before the ink dried on my class 3, and I will never spin the FAA roulette wheel again.
kell490
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According to this Surgery (Ventral Only Ablation of Tongue) tongue ablation doesn't sound fun at all to me it's allowed as a treatment, CPAP, and dental devices. Obviously not having to use a CPAP is the best way to go IMO if you can get away with the other 2 options it's worth a try. As far as I know the implanted devices that is now offered called Inspire those I think are not allowed probably want to stay clear of that or at least ask the AME before getting it done.
My understanding that if your are newly diagnosed it's better to see the AME right away because they only require a short amount of data maybe 2 weeks of data they will issue you the SI. Then you can let it expire and go on basic medical after that if that is your ultimate plan. The problem is for people who have been diagnosed for over a year or more they then want to see 1 year of data and it has to be 6 hours per day or more 75% of that year that gives you about 6 days a month you can sleep less than 6 hours.
Lot of people get diagnosed try the CPAP find they can't use it so it is dropped into a drawer to collect dust they go on snoring away. Now they have this diagnoses hanging over them has to be resolved, or treated for a year. In my case I had been using it, but many days were just below 6 hours some were 5:58 minutes. I would see 6 hours on the CPAP machine later it would report on the history 5:58 minutes.
Either way you should not have a problem if you can be treated with just a dental device that get you out of sending the data in.