Ornery controllers?

Challenged

Challenged

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Challenged
Are there any sectors that you don't enjoy being transferred to because the controllers are unpleasant to deal with? I flew with someone a while back who did not get flight following after we departed because he didn't want to deal with some particular controllers. Any sectors near you with a reputation? Is it deserved? What do you think causes it if so?
 
Yes, but that never stops me from using flight following, never. I think the ornery title is deserved for some of them, but it's usually only maybe one controller in an area, and honestly I can see how you could get stressed in that job, so I try to chalk it up to someone having a bad day.

I don't react to them, I don't let myself feel bullied or like I did something wrong( unless I did, then I apologize if there is time and get over it quickly), and I don't hesitate to ask them a question if I need to. I decided a while ago not to let a d-bag controller get under my skin, he's sitting in comfy chair, I'm hurtling through the air doing a relatively complicated task. Get what you need from them, don't pay attention to how it's delivered.

I've also heard a many more interactions where the controller should get upset dealing with someone, but didn't and acted with the utmost professionalism.

I read a comment before from a controller, who was responding to someone complaining about a jerk controller. His response was something like this. "Look, if you don't like dealing with a jerky controller, chances are we (other controllers) don't like dealing with him either, just take it with a grain of salt, get what you need, and move on."

I thought that was priceless when I read it.
 
Controllers are people. What percentage of people do you suppose are jerks?

I had a pilot tell me a few days ago that the cmi controllers are jerks. I've never found that to be the case. I've also heard this particular guy on frequency. He would try my patience as well. Sometimes you have to consider the source.
 
I kept getting batches of dbag controllers. I didn't avoid them, but they made me that 10% more anxious when I was on with them and they were speaking to everyone in that condescending teacher voice.

15 years ago, it was las vegas

10 years ago, it was phoenix

5 years ago, it was seattle.

I feel like it was the same grouches, but who even knows.

Seattle friendlied up in the last year or two, so wherever they are, they're not where I fly frequently.
 
I'm always happy to ask for FF, but flying in the Hudson Valley with NYApp is sometimes challenging. There have been several occasions when I've been told to standby, and end up just switching to Allentown Approach on my own after 15 minutes. They're just incredibly busy.
 
No. But everyone is different and has a bad day... so for me, it's not a sector that I don't enjoy being transferred to. Every once in a while, you get someone who isn't all roses and unicorns. But hey - who cares? ATC isn't there to be the sunshine in your life. They are there to help you not die.

I have also heard.... and this is probably just a silly rumour..... and probably not true at all..... but I have heard that every once-in-a-while.... even.... yes... I'll say it with a hushed tone..... but maybe possibly however unlikely.... even a.....

....pilot....

...... has been known to be ornery.
 
I have only ever encountered one really grouchy controller and that was with Portland Approach. She was probably having a bad day. Most everyone in ATC is professional and courteous. I would never skip ATC service because of potentially poor controllers.

They have to put up with pilots like the guy who called up NorCal Approach to order food at the restaurant at Sacramento Exec.
 
Challenged said:
after we departed because he didn't want to deal with some particular controllers
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why is everyone so sensitive?? the world has gone to trash


what can possibly be ornery about
"piece of crap single engine piston N123 VFR request"
"say request"
"is type 172 slant golf, at 3,500, request flight following direct burger place"

how can that possibly go south?
 
Just one B-hole out of C90
*innocent whistle*

Tantalum said:
why is everyone so sensitive?? the world has gone to trash


what can possibly be ornery about
"piece of crap single engine piston N123 VFR request"
"say request"
"is type 172 slant golf, at 3,500, request flight following direct burger place"

how can that possibly go south?
Click to expand...

Turn left heading 180. :D
 
Tantalum said:
why is everyone so sensitive?? the world has gone to trash


what can possibly be ornery about
"piece of crap single engine piston N123 VFR request"
"say request"
"is type 172 slant golf, at 3,500, request flight following direct burger place"

how can that possibly go south?
Click to expand...

"N123... siiggghhhh standby for squawk" usually kicks off a session of my feeling like I'm the turd in the controller's punchbowl, which they can so adroitly convey while using no syllables at all. :D
 
There used to be a guy several years back the worked NY Tracon. His name was Rocky.
Guy was a trip. Unlike any. Coming across his sector, he would take the hand off but the controller would say “Rocky doesn’t want to talk to anyone tonight, so just monitor his frequency xxx.xx”. If he would talk he would ask if you could take 7500 feet for traffic. He would ask you to report out of 7000. When you did, he would terminate service.

There are many other stories… this was perhaps the early 90’s..??
 
Maybe not ornery, but I wouldn't ask DAB (Daytona) Approach for FF on a VFR day. With Embry Riddle based there and gobs of students that all need a code to fly in the C, out of the C and to return to the C, they pretty much tell me to pound sand if I ask for a code. I'm based on the edge of Daytona and Jacksonville airspace, so I just wait until I go north a bit and get on with very accomodating JAX and if I'm lucky I get "Aloha guy".
 
I cannot think of a bad controller experience, but I'm also relatively low time.

On the other end of the spectrum, should you ever get a chance to fly into JQF, be prepared to laugh your a$$ off. The tower controllers there are extremely competent but also absolutely hysterical.
 
Kritchlow said:
There used to be a guy several years back the worked NY Tracon. His name was Rocky.
Guy was a trip. Unlike any. Coming across his sector, he would take the hand off but the controller would say “Rocky doesn’t want to talk to anyone tonight, so just monitor his frequency xxx.xx”. If he would talk he would ask if you could take 7500 feet for traffic. He would ask you to report out of 7000. When you did, he would terminate service.

There are many other stories… this was perhaps the early 90’s..??
Click to expand...

Wow, that's next-level. I've never experienced service ANYWHERE near that poor.
 
Kritchlow said:
There used to be a guy several years back the worked NY Tracon. His name was Rocky.
Guy was a trip. Unlike any. Coming across his sector, he would take the hand off but the controller would say “Rocky doesn’t want to talk to anyone tonight, so just monitor his frequency xxx.xx”. If he would talk he would ask if you could take 7500 feet for traffic. He would ask you to report out of 7000. When you did, he would terminate service.

There are many other stories… this was perhaps the early 90’s..??
Click to expand...

I had a NY controller last year, I was in the soup on a day that was forecast not be soupy, covid and a lot of planes flying. I got cleared to the IAF of the approach I was doing, then switched to this guy. He was going a mile a minute, I finally checked in, no response. So I looked at the clock, waited about 4 minutes, found a break, called, no answer. Waited again, another pilot calls up, the controller says he's working multiple frequencies, stand by. So I waited, about 5 minutes after that I was 1 minute from the IAF, I'm planning what to do, about to call him again, my clearance was to the airport, so I figured I'd fly the approach but not descend. Then he calls me, clears me for the approach and tells me to switch to tower. That was the only interaction I had with the guy, he was a rock star in my mind.
 
Just a one time incident. I was flying into Salt Lake City once in a Cessna 206 or 210, VFR.

I contacted approach and was given a squawk code. After a few minutes the lady did not get back to me so I asked if I was cleared into the airspace. The ''nice'' lady told me to squawk again and Ident, so I did. She asked me if I was near some visual checkpoint and I said not familiar. Long story short she told me my transponder was not working. I said sorry, didn't know. Then she actually yelled saying it was dangerous for me to fly with an inoperative transponder and that I WOULD NOT be able to take off until I get the transponder repaired. She went out of her way to make sure I understood that I would not be able to do anything without her approval.

Challenge accepted.

Once on the ground I called the tower and told them my transponder isn't working and asked how can I depart. Thanks for calling, we will be waiting for you and get you out. I called and received the shortest clearance I ever got. The tower got me underway, then sent me to departure and they steered me out of their airspace in short order.

As I left their airspace, I very gracefully thanked them for their help, then told them about the approach lady and her attitude, then asked if they would give her a call and tell her I left without fixing the transponder. They laughed and assured me they would tell her. Their laughter told me they knew that lady well.
 
My experience is if you are courteous controllers will go out of their way to help you. Simply put, negotiate your intentions politely and thank them for their help at the handoff and they will, in most cases accommodate you if they can. Everyone has a bad day once in a while so I tend to overlook things like that.

I used to fly with a guy who would always argue with the controllers. It made for some pretty bad experiences. I don't fly with him any longer.
 
One guy at a local airport has a reputation. I just avoid that airport. My one time example when I was there for a YE event, I called him twice on tower freq when I should have called him ground. He could have just informed me and given taxi clearance instead of making a production out of it. Whatever.

Never had a problem with FF controllers using approach or center.
 
I've flown through some areas where I'm
Tantalum said:
why is everyone so sensitive?? the world has gone to trash


what can possibly be ornery about
"piece of crap single engine piston N123 VFR request"
"say request"
"is type 172 slant golf, at 3,500, request flight following direct burger place"

how can that possibly go south?
Click to expand...

I'm laughing my can off!!!

Forgot to add "and 10 hours VFR current this year"
 
It's counterintuitive, but the most unfriendly controllers I work with on a regular basis are small, class D tower controllers at small mountain resort towns. I used to fly in southern california a lot and socal controllers could be slammed with everything from a motorized trike to 747s from all over the world and were to a person classy, polite, and helpful. Then you'd fly to a mountain town where someone still reads the ATIS and get the ****-don't-stink attitude...

:eyeroll:

I guess that doesn't answer the question. I would avoid working with the controllers that I mentioned, but I can't...
 
They are more than friendly if you know what you are doing. Show up with wack phraseology, and your gonna reap issues.

Tell your friend to read VFR Communications for Idiots by Gary Gandy
 
I asked for a touch and go once at McCarran, Las Vegas...

THAT got me a VERY ornery response.

Not a huge fan of O’hare. I actually quipped HARD at a JFK ground controller once. He actually took a deep breath, said I was right, he apologized and life went on. I agree, they’re just people.
 
You never really get to meet the person but this is a good look at Jenn Pierce from Houston Tracon who did the interview…you might find it interesting…
 
texasclouds said:
They are more than friendly if you know what you are doing. Show up with wack phraseology, and your gonna reap issues.

Tell your friend to read VFR Communications for Idiots by Gary Gandy
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The d-bag ones act exactly like that. I've been known to screw up a call or two, the good ones just ask for what you missed and move on. The d bags, you get a lecture.

Happened to me at Deer Valley, forgot my location when I called him up. Got dressed down, I apologized, then he dressed me down again, for even longer. Told him I got it. Dressed me down again in the pattern a third time, going too fast flying the Cirrus recommended speeds, so I told him I was right my proper speed per the manufacturer recommendation and was there traffic I should be worried about, he told me there was a 172 touching down, I was on the 45. I said I'll watch for him. I think he was trying to get me to flip out so he could kick me out of the pattern, when it didn't work he started in on a Eurcoupe 10 miles out.

I would say that 99.9% of the controllers are awesome and go above and beyond to work with you, but you always remember that one or two. The key is to not let them mess with your head. Not calling up for FF because of one of those guys would be a shame.

Also, controllers screw up too.
 
When I first went into OJT, I was surprised to find the controller that was the most ornery with GA pilots was himself, a GA pilot. I went up with him once in his Muskateer and his demeanor was completely different on the other side of the mic.
 
PaulS said:
The d-bag ones act exactly like that. I've been known to screw up a call or two, the good ones just ask for what you missed and move on. The d bags, you get a lecture.

Happened to me at Deer Valley, forgot my location when I called him up. Got dressed down, I apologized, then he dressed me down again, for even longer. Told him I got it. Dressed me down again in the pattern a third time, going too fast flying the Cirrus recommended speeds, so I told him I was right my proper speed per the manufacturer recommendation and was there traffic I should be worried about, he told me there was a 172 touching down, I was on the 45. I said I'll watch for him. I think he was trying to get me to flip out so he could kick me out of the pattern, when it didn't work he started in on a Eurcoupe 10 miles out.

I would say that 99.9% of the controllers are awesome and go above and beyond to work with you, but you always remember that one or two. The key is to not let them mess with your head. Not calling up for FF because of one of those guys would be a shame.

Also, controllers screw up too.
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My first time flying out of DVT, which was also my first time flying my airplane, I goofed the taxi instruction from the northwest runup to 7L. How's that even possible?

When I realized what I'd done (gone past A4), I immediately 'fessed up and asked ground if he'd like me to back-taxi. Nope, just continue on B3 to 7R, tower on 118.4. Totally professional, zero attitude.

Then there was the first time I transited the Phoenix B-space. I was in a Cherokee. Approach kept calling me a Cessna, then correcting herself and apologizing.
 
DesertNomad said:
I have only ever encountered one really grouchy controller and that was with Portland Approach. She was probably having a bad day. Most everyone in ATC is professional and courteous. I would never skip ATC service because of potentially poor controllers.

They have to put up with pilots like the guy who called up NorCal Approach to order food at the restaurant at Sacramento Exec.
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When was that? I know a Controller who used to work Portland Approach around 2012 give or take a few years.
 
All of the center controllers have been great especially SoCAL, Fort Worth, ABQ and Houston.

Worst controllers: Had 2 separate issues at Class D with "trainees" that went totally bonkers. I landed at the tower and was met by a supervisor BOTH times and told the controller was in the wrong ... I was going in just to discuss and review, not looking to be a smuck.

Absolute Best: July 4th several years ago West Texas to Fullerton, lots of fast moving storms. Controller indicated I was his only plane (he was handling 12000 and below) and we had a regular conversation peppered with "there's a cell starting ahead at 2:00 or whichever direction". near Pima it looked like I was going to be landing for quite awhile. I did land for storm activity, upon takeoff an hour later, I got him again and he arranged to cross southern AZ through ALL the restricted areas to Yuma ... made things REAL easy ...
 
Tantalum said:
I would have immediately demanded a phone number and composed a letter to my congressman as well as file suit for slander and emotional distress.
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Seriously. I'd be quite triggered by that. I'd rather be called a Cirrus than a Cessna
 
Most memorable exchanges I’ve had have been at class Ds under class Bs. Maybe it’s the feeling of inadequacy. :)
 
Not much experience with controllers but no, never had a concern with any of them. But these folks are human like the rest of us.

Couple of years ago I got to visit a class D tower (and see the radar room also) and when I walked in the first thing I did was introduce myself and then apologize for the sloppy approach, landing, and taxi to parking job that I did (I was being facetious). They all laughed of course but I wondered if they were laughing with me or at me ... o_O
 
Honestly I think you reap the seeds you sow. Or I'm oblivious to it.

If you have a "holier than though" attitude or make the controllers do extra work, then yeah, they'll be ornery. And if someone is rude, whatever, maybe he didn't sleep well and his wife (or husband) got upset with them that morning over something dumb after working 10 days in a row and not having any personal time. Maybe that one last "fly heading two one zero, not one two zero!" was the last straw
 
I've had one controller that I talked to all the time and was always the nicest person in the world except for that one time she had a bad day.
 
Had a controller at a class "D" 3 years back who could not comprehend I couldn't ident because I didn't have a transponder, and I didn't have lights I could blink, because I didn't have an electrical system.
Even the concept of a battery powered handheld radio was beyond their capability to understand. After the third "Please ident" and my polite negative response, the Supervisor came on and apologized for the "new kid".
 
AA5Bman said:
I used to fly in southern california a lot and socal controllers could be slammed with everything from a motorized trike to 747s from all over the world and were to a person classy, polite, and helpful
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These guys are something else. You'll have someone in the LAX VFR corridor (the busiest airspace in the world) totally off the prescribed heading and the controllers are absurdly accommodating "what radial are you following? Okay, that's fine, just fly straight on that heading" .. amazing
 
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