ORD remains the worst

mandm

mandm

En-Route
PoA Supporter
Joined
Feb 7, 2020
Messages
2,830
Location
Chicago
Display Name
Display name:
Michael
The most unwelcoming airspace. Chicago.

I’m sticking with my opinion on this. Just flew to New Orleans, en route through the Memphis Bravo, hey Memphis Arrow inbound at 6000’, response is welcome Arrow altimeter xx cleared into the Bravo. Next is New Orleans, even I’m below the Bravo shelf, New Orleans Arrow inbound, Hello Arrow welcome altimeter cleared in the Bravo, even though my altitude is below the shelf. I mean all very respectful and accommodating.

Now back to Chicago!
Hello Chicago, Arrow inbound.
Hi Arrow altimeter xx remain VFR outside of the Bravo and umm can you go lower like 1200 feet MSL we got some heavies inbound.

Now if you aren’t flying inbound and driving in or picking up a passenger, it’s some south Chicago folk shouting at you that they are going to arrest you and impound your vehicle and you really are just trying to look for your friend.

Or you are in the airport and they are shouting wait here oh no not there but here hey the door will hit you hey we gotta set up hey you too early. Hey go to this security line but then you have people trying to sneak in the line and security is already tested and acts like you are sneaking in and has an attitude with you and of course only one line is open no one is working the staff all shouting at you sweater off clothes off shoes off wait keep your watches ON keep them ON damnnit lol. I mean geez such a **** show I hate going to the airport really I just can’t. And people do this **** for a living? God bless them.
 
FWIW, not all Class B are equal. MEM and MSY combined probably don't see half the traffic ORD sees on the daily. One of the Bravos I've flown into is STL. I was literally the only aircraft operating when I landed, and only had a single 737 following me out on departure.
 
midwestpa24 said:
FWIW, not all Class B are equal. MEM and MSY combined probably don't see half the traffic ORD sees on the daily. One of the Bravos I've flown into is STL. I was literally the only aircraft operating when I landed, and only had a single 737 following me out on departure.
Click to expand...
I flew to Boston, New York, Atlanta, Miami, Memphis, New Orleans, Cleveland, Denver, all cleared in without asking. What airspace is as rude as Chicago?
 
No, but the ATTITTUDE of C90 (WTH is a flivver doing in my turbojet airspace) still persists. And I still negotiate "direct by flying the 37 DME arc from 1C5 to UGN, climbing until they realize, hey, "he's going to set off the Resolution advisories at Benke! (outside the bravo)" Then they give me direct.

I pay taxes too.
 
I haven’t flown GA around Chicago, but I have arrived at ORD on an international flight. There were about a dozen people apparently paid to stand still and yell at every single passenger which way to go. You know, the job that can be done better by a sign.
 
iamtheari said:
I haven’t flown GA around Chicago, but I have arrived at ORD on an international flight. There were about a dozen people apparently paid to stand still and yell at every single passenger which way to go. You know, the job that can be done better by a sign.
Click to expand...
Exactly what’s with the yelling attitude of Chicago. Put a damn sign. Yelling ruins the vibe. Seriously….
 
mandm said:
The most unwelcoming airspace. Chicago.

I’m sticking with my opinion on this. Just flew to New Orleans, en route through the Memphis Bravo, hey Memphis Arrow inbound at 6000’, response is welcome Arrow altimeter xx cleared into the Bravo. Next is New Orleans, even I’m below the Bravo shelf, New Orleans Arrow inbound, Hello Arrow welcome altimeter cleared in the Bravo, even though my altitude is below the shelf. I mean all very respectful and accommodating.

Now back to Chicago!
Hello Chicago, Arrow inbound.
Hi Arrow altimeter xx remain VFR outside of the Bravo and umm can you go lower like 1200 feet MSL we got some heavies inbound.

Now if you aren’t flying inbound and driving in or picking up a passenger, it’s some south Chicago folk shouting at you that they are going to arrest you and impound your vehicle and you really are just trying to look for your friend.

Or you are in the airport and they are shouting wait here oh no not there but here hey the door will hit you hey we gotta set up hey you too early. Hey go to this security line but then you have people trying to sneak in the line and security is already tested and acts like you are sneaking in and has an attitude with you and of course only one line is open no one is working the staff all shouting at you sweater off clothes off shoes off wait keep your watches ON keep them ON damnnit lol. I mean geez such a **** show I hate going to the airport really I just can’t. And people do this **** for a living? God bless them.
Click to expand...

I rarely had any issue with Chicago. Yes, they will ask you to stay low, especially over the lake shore. It is a busy airspace. If you don't want to fly low, fly around it (JOT is a good waypoint if you are going around to its west). If you file IFR, they will send you to KELSI. Some airspaces really should be B+. For instance, at Cincinnati (also a class B) you can do touch and goes and stay in the traffic pattern depending on the time of day.
 
sarangan said:
I rarely had any issue with Chicago. Yes, they will ask you to stay low, especially over the lake shore. It is a busy airspace. If you don't want to fly low, fly around it (JOT is a good waypoint if you are going around to its west). If you file IFR, they will send you to KELSI. Some airspaces really should be B+. For instance, at Cincinnati (also a class B) you can do touch and goes and stay in the traffic pattern depending on the time of day.
Click to expand...
How is low over the lake good?!? For real
When NO one else does this BS
 
Last time I flew commercial I went MKE. Different world.
 
Flew out of DPA and 3CK for over 15 years before I escaped. DPA was easy. 3CK could be a challenge. But the worst I usually got was a 330 heading after LOT. Then no turns until I gave up and cancelled IFR. That happened more times than I could count.
 
We have to say it how it is to get change
Corrupt *******s at Chicago putting us in unsafe position / altitudes
Sorry Ryan if I’m gonna be blocked now is a good time I’m over the big big pond to Asia now
 
OMG POA has an automatic filter on the A word?!? :eek:
 
bbchien said:
No, but the ATTITTUDE of C90 (WTH is a flivver doing in my turbojet airspace) still persists. And I still negotiate "direct by flying the 37 DME arc from 1C5 to UGN, climbing until they realize, hey, "he's going to set off the Resolution advisories at Benke! (outside the bravo)" Then they give me direct.

I pay taxes too.
Click to expand...
That’s one hell of a detour Doc, Benke is in Oklahoma.
 
Last edited:
bbchien said:
No, but the ATTITTUDE of C90 (WTH is a flivver doing in my turbojet airspace) still persists.
Click to expand...

The line isn't always drawn between flivvers/turbojets either. I was through there in an Eclipse once and we got sent down to 6000' 100-120 miles from our destination to stay under ORD traffic.
 
bbchien said:
No, but the ATTITTUDE of C90 (WTH is a flivver doing in my turbojet airspace) still persists. And I still negotiate "direct by flying the 37 DME arc from 1C5 to UGN, climbing until they realize, hey, "he's going to set off the Resolution advisories at Benke! (outside the bravo)" Then they give me direct.

I pay taxes too.
Click to expand...
37 DME arc of what?
 
luvflyin said:
37 DME arc of what?
Click to expand...
BENKy and Chicago DME - 108.25.

I did take a page from Doc B’s playbook and just point my nose at their arrivals when flying on either side. They get less inflexible then.

And agree, the airport itself is very shouty. Was in the International arrivals loop and got shouted out of there because my passenger couldn’t see me in time. Funny, their inbound KLM had a go around because a plane didn’t exit the runway. My go around was longer because of how they close off roads around the airport. :rolleyes:
 
mandm said:
Exactly what’s with the yelling attitude of Chicago. Put a damn sign. Yelling ruins the vibe. Seriously….
Click to expand...
iamtheari said:
There were about a dozen people apparently paid to stand still and yell at every single passenger which way to go. You know, the job that can be done better by a sign.
Click to expand...

OK, what language do you make the sign???? It IS an INTERNATIONAL airport.
 
Outside the bravo and VFR C90 usually isn't a problem. IFR is rediculous. VFR into the Class B (unless landing at ORD or MDW) ain't happening.

I'm bopping toward Chicagoland IFR at 10,000.

ME: Is there any altitude I can request that will avoid me having to go to the KELSI intersection?
C90: Let me check... no.
ME: OK, here's what we're going to do. I'm going to climb up 500', cancel IFR, and then you can give me advisories to OSH.
C90: That will work.

Now for the next ten minutes, I listen to them holding MDW departures, and then ORD departures at 9000 to avoid crossing my path as I head up roughly the Lakeshore.
I'm watching an MD80 climbing through my alitutde ahead of me and then suddenly I see him descending. Odd, I think.

UA: I just got a TCAS RA.
C90: Oh, yeah, there's a Navion up there at 10-5.
ME: I had him in sight.
 
I will add in the TRSA area of Rockford. I went there once during my PPL training with the instructor, so I could experience it. No one seemed pleasant to talk to me.
 
masloki said:
BENKy and Chicago DME - 108.25.

I did take a page from Doc B’s playbook and just point my nose at their arrivals when flying on either side. They get less inflexible then.

And agree, the airport itself is very shouty. Was in the International arrivals loop and got shouted out of there because my passenger couldn’t see me in time. Funny, their inbound KLM had a go around because a plane didn’t exit the runway. My go around was longer because of how they close off roads around the airport. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Ah. GCO. That’s not on the the Sectional, L28 IFR Low or H5 High. Only the A-2.
 
I've had some of that before. Taking off DPA the shelf there is 4k, so I'm climbing to 3500 just left of northbound and about a minute after leaving the delta:

Tower: N1234 you still with me?
Me: Yup
Tower: You see that JAL 777 at your 12 o'clock x? miles at 4000?
Me: Yup

The JAL was at 4k on the left base for the 9s/10s so we were going nose to nose. My plan was to take his stern to avoid the wake but I want to say they probably got a TCAS note, told C90, they called DPA tower, for them to call me. If you need the bravo to start at 35, then make it so! Otherwise, don't bother me! :biggrin:
 
Salt Lake City. Mostly just the one lady controller.

The lady actually yelled at me because I was unaware of local landmarks and mostly because I did not know the transponder was not working. I mean yelled at me in a loud, high pitched voice telling me I would not be able to depart until I got it fixed. And rather smugly reminded me it was a holiday weekend and no one will be open for repairs.

Challenge accepted.!!


Before departing, I called the tower and told them of my situation. Not a problem they said, and it wasn't. Radar identified by turning to a heading, then radar vectors out of the airspace. Before departure let me go I asked them to call the yelling lady on arrival and tell her I left. Departure seemed to know to whom I was talking about...
 
Pinecone said:
OK, what language do you make the sign???? It IS an INTERNATIONAL airport.
Click to expand...
I am not sure what language the people pretending to be signs were yelling in, but it sounded vaguely like English to me. You'd have to get bigger signs or maybe multiple signs in order to cover the four or five languages necessary to get 99% of the world's population pointed in the right direction, whereas the people whose job is Sign were getting through to almost none of the three people who were on an international flight and didn't know how to navigate an international airport.
 
iamtheari said:
I am not sure what language the people pretending to be signs were yelling in, but it sounded vaguely like English to me. You'd have to get bigger signs or maybe multiple signs in order to cover the four or five languages necessary to get 99% of the world's population pointed in the right direction, whereas the people whose job is Sign were getting through to almost none of the three people who were on an international flight and didn't know how to navigate an international airport.
Click to expand...
^^^ This.

Having just traveled through ORD, the direction-yelling employees don't seem to be assigned because they possessed multi-lingual resumes.

Newark also seems to be of the same local management mindset.
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
^^^ This.

Having just traveled through ORD, the direction-yelling employees don't seem to be assigned because they possessed multi-lingual resumes.

Newark also seems to be of the same local management mindset.
Click to expand...

I experienced the same at IAH recently. With their massive renovations going on, the tram system is not running normally and you have to transfer between trains. So they have people at the tram stations and on the trams themselves to direct people on and off.
 
The source of the attitude from Chicagoans, I'm convinced, is that they've been brainwashed into thinking that a tomato-and-cheese bread bowl is actually pizza.

They've been denied one of life's great pleasures, and we all suffer the consequences for it.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
The source of the attitude from Chicagoans, I'm convinced, is that they've been brainwashed into thinking that a tomato-and-cheese bread bowl is actually pizza.

They've been denied one of life's great pleasures, and we all suffer the consequences for it.
Click to expand...
Most Chicagoans don't eat deep dish. Famous for it, but all aware it sucks. Chicago style thin crust what most of us order.

Lately been ordering a double decker. Trying to cultivate mass apparently.
 
What is with the yelling employees, I mean at the airports concerts games etc always shouting about how to stand or walk and for me that ruins the vibe. They want you to give them a cookie for showing up to work AND they are mad. Guess what, they need to be terminated for providing poor service.

I try to avoid those places but sometimes I have to deal with it like when flying across the big big pond.

But really we need a name for them it’s like a Karen but not exactly. Maybe we call them “Vibewreckers”.

For Chicago Bravo, they probably want their airspace to start at the ground or I think they secretly like us flying low to the ground so maybe 500’ starts the Bravo. I mean even at 2000’ they ask you to go lower….
 
Both ORD and MDW never provided challenges with ATC. Flew in and out of those two airfields, and every knook and cranny airfield you can think of in the Chicago area for 20 years. Never an issue. There are 2 exceptions: 1) I have heard approach light somebody up for wasting time on freq. Frankly, they needed the lesson; and 2) the knuckleheads on the ground (TSA / CPD) - their yelling is a bit excessive, to the point of counterproductive.
 
I have made a lot of flights between lower Michigan and Wisconsin, some along the Chicago lakeshore and some IFR to KELSI intersection, etc. On one VFR flight from Madison to Kalamazoo, I mistakenly entered the DuPage airport instead of the VOR in my LORAN (yes, it was that long ago). This resulted in me busting the lower limit of the Class B at the time. DuPage Tower told me to contact Chicago Departure and ask for the supervisor, and he could not have been nicer... just asked what I was doing in the floor of his airspace and where was I going. He gave me a transponder code and flight following around the south end. I did not know about NASA reports back then, or I would have filed one. I never heard another word about it.
 
@mandm you are at UGN? If they are landing to the West how would you propose we transit the lakefront if not low?

I agree they aren't welcoming but I almost always get flight following or a response (try RFD approach on 121.0 in 5 miles . . . )

But I trained/grew up here. From my early flights on they told me not to bother with ORD. I didn't even know we could get access to Bravo (then a TCA I think?). I assumed they all ignored you.

With that backdrop - I've been pleasantly surprised.
 
KELSI was mentioned by several posters as waypoint for an IFR route. It appears to be >30 miles southwest of the Bravo. Way the heck out there. Just wondering: where are you coming from and where are you going?
 
NoHeat said:
KELSI was mentioned by several posters as waypoint for an IFR route. It appears to be >30 miles southwest of the Bravo. Way the heck out there. Just wondering: where are you coming from and where are you going?
Click to expand...
KELSI is the waypoint IFR traffic can expect if going around the southwest side of Chicago. Likewise Peptone is common on the east side. They aren't going to let you get any closer than that below 10,000 if you are IFR. I've asked to cut the corner before and the controller just laughed and said not going to happen.

Interesting part is if you are 8-10,000 at KELSI, you are right in the way of Southwest airlines going into MDW. Busy area that southwest side.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top