Oral prep question

gkaiser

gkaiser

Pre-takeoff checklist
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gkaiser
I'm studying for my oral prep...the DPE provided me with a bunch of areas of study/review/questions/etc....and I'm stumped on this one..which I'm sure i'm just missing the obvious...

"Do you understand that an MEL (Minimum Equipment List in this case) is unlikely to apply to you as a Private Pilot?"
 
gkaiser said:
I'm studying for my oral prep...the DPE provided me with a bunch of areas of study/review/questions/etc....and I'm stumped on this one..which I'm sure i'm just missing the obvious...

"Do you understand that an MEL (Minimum Equipment List in this case) is unlikely to apply to you as a Private Pilot?"
Click to expand...

What part of that has you stumped?
 
Hah, Thanks Henning..I guess i'm missing something staring at me in the face...I laughed after I read your reply..hah....

Minimum Equipment list...maybe I'm confusing it with required equipment...
 
Is it because of this?

(d) Except for operations conducted in accordance with paragraph (a) or (c) of this section, a person may takeoff an aircraft in operations conducted under this part with inoperative instruments and equipment without an approved Minimum Equipment List provided--
(1) The flight operation is conducted in a--
[(i) Rotorcraft, nonturbine-powered airplane, glider, or lighter-than-air aircraft, powered parachute, or weight-shift-control aircraft, for which a master minimum equipment list has not been developed; or]


Therefore, since as a private pilot generaly there is no master minimum equipment list..so a MEL list is unlikely to apply?
 
hahaha...I'm reviewing these 5-6 pages of material to review for my oral..(I guess the examiner pretty much goes word-for-word from this)..and maybe I'm missing something...without sounding cocky..isn't it suppose to be difficult? Seems like most of the answers are right in front of your face after simple review...
 
My examiner asked me about MELs as well. He also made a point to tell me that I could not just go fly a plane during the day that was equiped with nav lights if I discover that one is inoperable during my preflight. More action was required before I could go fly.
 
gkaiser said:
hahaha...I'm reviewing these 5-6 pages of material to review for my oral..(I guess the examiner pretty much goes word-for-word from this)..and maybe I'm missing something...without sounding cocky..isn't it suppose to be difficult? Seems like most of the answers are right in front of your face after simple review...
Click to expand...

The question takes a yes or no answer....
 
PPC1052 said:
My examiner asked me about MELs as well. He also made a point to tell me that I could not just go fly a plane during the day that was equiped with nav lights if I discover that one is inoperable during my preflight. More action was required before I could go fly.
Click to expand...
That is something your instructor should have covered with you long before the practical test, but it is a hole I see in a lot of people's swings when they come to me for instrument training.
 
OK..Here's another
What is the tire pressure for the nose wheel? Main wheels?

Reviewing the C152 POH..I see nothing...

Also
Where can the brake system be serviced? What type of fluid?

other then seeing its a hydraulic-disc system..I don't see anything in the POH..does that mean it isn't serviceable then?
 
Landing gear (tires) and brakes are together in section 8 of the 172 manual. Can't imagine 152 is too different. And most questions of the yes or no variety do include the why or why not follow-up. My favorite was trying to memorize the different medical conditions and very similar symptoms, lack of 02 is very similar to too much CO.
 
gkaiser said:
I'm studying for my oral prep...the DPE provided me with a bunch of areas of study/review/questions/etc....and I'm stumped on this one..which I'm sure i'm just missing the obvious...

"Do you understand that an MEL (Minimum Equipment List in this case) is unlikely to apply to you as a Private Pilot?"
Click to expand...

Hi gkaiser:

This may be wrong in some respect, but if correct, is a little deeper answer.

I was taught that a minimum equipment list (MEL) is only used with turbine aircraft and aircraft > 12,500 lbs.

Thus, as a regular old GA pilot, I need to use the flow of 91.213(d), in conjunction with the required equipment list in 91.205(b) ("a tomatoe flies") in order to figure out whether or not and, if so, how I can fly with inoperative equipment, rather than use a “Minimum Equipment List” (MEL), because a MEL is only used with turbine aircraft and aircraft > 12,500 lbs under 91.213(a) or (c).

Joe
 
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gkaiser said:
hahaha...I'm reviewing these 5-6 pages of material to review for my oral..(I guess the examiner pretty much goes word-for-word from this)..and maybe I'm missing something...without sounding cocky..isn't it suppose to be difficult? Seems like most of the answers are right in front of your face after simple review...
Click to expand...

All I saw were the bolded words above.
 
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gkaiser said:
OK..Here's another
What is the tire pressure for the nose wheel? Main wheels?

Reviewing the C152 POH..I see nothing...

Also
Where can the brake system be serviced? What type of fluid?

other then seeing its a hydraulic-disc system..I don't see anything in the POH..does that mean it isn't serviceable then?
Click to expand...

IT's on the very last page for the 150. Cant remember for the "newer" cessnas though.
 
You can bleed the brakes yourself in your hangar. It's 5606 hydraulic fluid for the brakes, nose strut and shimmy dampened if it has one.
 
gkaiser said:
What is the tire pressure for the nose wheel? Main wheels? Reviewing the C152 POH..I see nothing...
Click to expand...
Did you try checking Section 8 of that book? I think you'll find it there.

Also Where can the brake system be serviced? What type of fluid? other then seeing its a hydraulic-disc system..I don't see anything in the POH..does that mean it isn't serviceable then?
Click to expand...
That information is in the maintenance manual, not the POH. However, that is not testable material for the Private Pilot practical test.
 
register@teamandras.com said:
I was taught that a minimum equipment list (MEL) is only used with turbine aircraft and aircraft > 12,500 lbs.
Click to expand...
You were taught incorrectly. Typcially, it is not used in light aircraft other than in a Part 135 operation, but there are MMEL's based upon which one can get an MEL approved for many light aircraft. See http://fsims.faa.gov/PICResults.aspx?mode=Publication&doctype=MMEL to find out what's available. There are very few for singles, but most light twins have them, including the Cessna 303/310, Grumman Cougar, and Piper Apache/Aztec. Expect to have to discuss this on a CP practical test. However, unless you have a FSDO-approved MEL for your operation, you stick with 91.213(d), and it's not likely you'll be quizzed on MEL's beyond knowing they exist and possibly where to find them on a PP practical test.
 
Ron Levy said:
You were taught incorrectly. Typcially, it is not used in light aircraft other than in a Part 135 operation, but there are MMEL's based upon which one can get an MEL approved for many light aircraft. See http://fsims.faa.gov/PICResults.aspx?mode=Publication&doctype=MMEL to find out what's available. There are very few for singles, but most light twins have them, including the Cessna 303/310, Grumman Cougar, and Piper Apache/Aztec. Expect to have to discuss this on a CP practical test. However, unless you have a FSDO-approved MEL for your operation, you stick with 91.213(d), and it's not likely you'll be quizzed on MEL's beyond knowing they exist and possibly where to find them on a PP practical test.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I'll re-investigate it a bit.
 
Ron Levy said:
You were taught incorrectly. Typcially, it is not used in light aircraft other than in a Part 135 operation, but there are MMEL's based upon which one can get an MEL approved for many light aircraft. See http://fsims.faa.gov/PICResults.aspx?mode=Publication&doctype=MMEL to find out what's available. There are very few for singles, but most light twins have them, including the Cessna 303/310, Grumman Cougar, and Piper Apache/Aztec. Expect to have to discuss this on a CP practical test. However, unless you have a FSDO-approved MEL for your operation, you stick with 91.213(d), and it's not likely you'll be quizzed on MEL's beyond knowing they exist and possibly where to find them on a PP practical test.
Click to expand...

Hi Ron,

I did not know that there are “Master MELs” that allow one to get a FSDO-approved MEL for small airplanes. Thanks for that tidbit.

I reviewed my ground school notes and think that I transformed a true statement (“turbine aircraft and aircraft > 12,500 lbs always use MELs”), into a false statement by adding the emphatic “only” part (“MELs are used only with turbine aircraft and aircraft > 12,500 lbs”). MELs are sometimes used, I now understand, with some small, non-turbine airplanes.

If I owned a “small,” non-turbine airplane that weighs < 12,500 lbs, like a Cessna 303, why would I want a FSDO-approved MEL? What are the advantages?

Also, am I correct in my reading of 91.213(d) that if I owned such a plane, I could choose to use either the MEL or 91.213(d)?

If so, why would I choose to use one approach over the other?

Thanks,

Joe
 
Ron Levy said:
That is something your instructor should have covered with you long before the practical test, but it is a hole I see in a lot of people's swings when they come to me for instrument training.
Click to expand...

True.

I was well prepared overall, but there is so much stuff you are bound to miss something. There's only so much time in the day for someone holding down a full time job, and training on the weekends.
 
register@teamandras.com said:
I did not know that there are “Master MELs” that allow one to get a FSDO-approved MEL for small airplanes. Thanks for that tidbit.
Click to expand...
I submit that purely as academic knowledge. For the average owner/pilot, paragraph (d) is a far easier way to go than getting an MEL approved.

If I owned a “small,” non-turbine airplane that weighs < 12,500 lbs, like a Cessna 303, why would I want a FSDO-approved MEL? What are the advantages?
Click to expand...
Basically, none, for the average owner/pilot. For a commercial operator, it saves a lot of coordination between ops and maintenance.

Also, am I correct in my reading of 91.213(d) that if I owned such a plane, I could choose to use either the MEL or 91.213(d)?
Click to expand...
You could indeed, once you constructed an MEL and had it approved by the FSDO.

If so, why would I choose to use one approach over the other?
Click to expand...
Subparagraph (d), because it's a lot easier for the average owner/pilot to deal with. Otherwise, you have to go back to the FSDO to have your MEL re-approved every time you make an alteration to your aircraft.
 
Ron Levy said:
Subparagraph (d), because it's a lot easier for the average owner/pilot to deal with. Otherwise, you have to go back to the FSDO to have your MEL re-approved every time you make an alteration to your aircraft.
Click to expand...

Huh? :dunno:

Wouldn't that be only if the alteration affected any items in the MMEL? And why couldn't the owner who has an approved MEL just mail the revision in for approval and have the Inspector sign and return the revision?? :dunno:
 
RotorAndWing said:
Huh? :dunno:

Wouldn't that be only if the alteration affected any items in the MMEL? And why couldn't the owner who has an approved MEL just mail the revision in for approval and have the Inspector sign and return the revision?? :dunno:
Click to expand...

Nit picking, you are still getting FSDO's approval no matter what method is used.

If your FSDO is willing you could actually E-mail it to them, but your still going back to FSDO for a new approval.
 
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