Options for financing a panel upgrade

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BarryJI

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Barry
First, thank you for your help and advice; it's much appreciated.

My two partners and I are staring down the barrel of a needed avionics upgrade for our Grumman Tiger at Santa Monica Airport. We feel we must get it all done in as few stages as possible but it's likely to cost us $60k.

Can anyone comment on options to finance this? Are there specialist banks or financial services? I have left a message at AOPA but have not heard back. It's a fairly simple transaction: three partners with good credit, airplane in good shape, no existing note on the airplane or other borrowings.

Thank you once again.
 
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We (the partnership) levied a special assessment. How each owner got the money was up to them, but each had to make a deposit into the partnership’s account.

Kept everything clean and simple.
 
Yes, that's what we are likely to do but given the very large amount involved, financing might enable us to spread out the payments.
 
Well, there is the Clyde Barrow/Bonnie Parker method ... :dunno:
 
RyanB said:
Why? I’d rather avoid a bank note hanging over my head and just upgrade in stages.
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It certainly can be done that way if you don’t mind the total time the aircraft is out of service to be longer and the expense higher.
 
Stages. Definitely stages.
Identify what you want the end configuration to be. Then work backwards on priorities. Here's my experience over 10 years - no hurry and no painful writing of a check.
When I bought the cherokee, no audio panel and switching between radios was a Radio Shack A/B switch. Removed the crappy radio, kept the OK one (TKM), installed an SL30 and Garmin audio panel (I didn't know about PSEngineering at the time or would have gone that direction). Goal is better than minumum IFR aircraft. I currently have GPS-HSI and SL30-CDI, two independent sources.

2018 Removed transponder and installed ADS-B Out (didn't have the $$$ for the In/Out but I haven't missed the IN option thanks to the iPad) (deadline was 2020 and I knew it would be a fubar to wait-total about $6K)
2020 Shop installed the Garmin G5 to replace the AI (avionics shop not needed - total $6K)
2021 Avionics shop installed 2nd G5 as HSI, and Garmin 175 GPS ($12K), removed vacuum system
2024 (scheduled) replace the TKM radio (it's COM only) so I get more space in the stack (est $4K total)
So far it's $28-$30K spent over 6 yrs so it's not painful. I don't have a partner so this is definitely being done in stages.

2025 (planned) install autopilot ($ouch) ($8500 for the unit, then lots for the install and everything else, best guess is another $10K)

For a total of $50K, so your estimate of $60K is not unreasonable.

As for timing - depends entirely on the shop. Colorado has two fantastic shops but you need to book in advance, and they don't take the airplane until all the parts are there, and ready to be installed.
ADS-B - 3 days only because I dropped it off on Day 1, then got a ride on Day 3 to pick it up. If I could have stayed over, it would have been 2 days.
the GPS & G5 took 2 days
first G5 took 2 days
SL30 was one day
 
If you do it in stages you pay for the shop to remove the interior and inspection plates and replace them for each stage. That costs money. And prices go up for equipment and shop time. Any prices quoted for work prior to 2021 is not in line with current costs.

One option might be to play your final panel, and have them shop wire the plane with that in mind, so less stripping and running wires and such each stage.

Aviation lenders seem to only want to lend about 50% of the installed cost of avionics. Although, if the plane is paid off, you could use the plane as collateral for a loan. Then use the proceeds for the avionics.

I would problably do a Home Equity loan.
 
Check on the rules for the HEL….my credit union only offers them specifically for home improvement projects.

Why would the inspection plates be involved? The interior, only if wiring needed to the rear of the aircraft or if there’d old wiring back there. If so, then I got lucky…wasn’t anything back there or needed to go back there.
 
I did it in stages, but that’s because technology was changing: ADSB, glass panels, digital APs, etc. and prices were going down. Today I would do in 1 shot, notice the lack of new tech at Oshkosh.
The price dropping made up for the overhead involved in any of the upgrades. But now that prices are rising that won’t be true in the future.
Make sure you don’t get overextended and cant fly because you can’t afford the avgas.
 
murphey said:
Check on the rules for the HEL….my credit union only offers them specifically for home improvement projects.

Why would the inspection plates be involved? The interior, only if wiring needed to the rear of the aircraft or if there’d old wiring back there. If so, then I got lucky…wasn’t anything back there or needed to go back there.
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Pretty tough to install a new autopilot by only removing the interior.
 
murphey said:
Check on the rules for the HEL….my credit union only offers them specifically for home improvement projects.

Why would the inspection plates be involved? The interior, only if wiring needed to the rear of the aircraft or if there’d old wiring back there. If so, then I got lucky…wasn’t anything back there or needed to go back there.
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Running wires to magnetometer in the wing.

Auto pilot servos and wiring.

Removing old wiring.
 
You don’t say what specific year/model but I would question the sanity of the idea of putting 60k plus interest in avionics upgrades into a plane that might not be worth much more than that when done. For 60k I would be looking at selling and buying another plane with the panel you already want. I also don’t recommend going the route of a HELOC or home refinance to pay for the upgrade. Finance rates will be attractive going that route but you are securing that loan with your house. If you lose your job, get hurt in an accident, etc and can not afford to pay the home equity loan back you could potentially lose your house over an optional panel upgrade. If you really still want to do the upgrade then consider putting it off for 2 years and just having each partner put $800 into a panel upgrade fund each month. That will get you the 60k in cash to do the upgrade in 2 years. If $800 a month isn’t feasible then you really need to rethink how badly you want the new panel as you are going to be paying a lot more than just 60k once you figure in interest in the loan.
 
OP stated Grumman Tiger. They sell for around $150K without nice avionics/panels. I am sure that you would get the usual 50% of the installed price for the upgrades. So value would be $180Kish.

Yeah, if it was a $60,000 Cherokee, I would question the upgrade.

Also, partnership, many times change people, but the aircraft never "sells".
 
Pinecone said:
OP stated Grumman Tiger. They sell for around $150K without nice avionics/panels. I am sure that you would get the usual 50% of the installed price for the upgrades. So value would be $180Kish.

Yeah, if it was a $60,000 Cherokee, I would question the upgrade.

Also, partnership, many times change people, but the aircraft never "sells".
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Really? Here's one for less than $150k with a very nice panel. Of course there's lots of variation on the market.

www.trade-a-plane.com

GRUMMAN/AMERICAN GENERAL AG5B TIGER Single Engine Piston Aircraft For Sale - Used & New 1 - 2

We have 2 GRUMMAN/AMERICAN GENERAL AG5B TIGER Single Engine Piston Aircraft For Sale. Search our listings for used & new airplanes updated daily from 100's of private sellers & dealers. 1 - 2
www.trade-a-plane.com www.trade-a-plane.com
 
They go all the way down to 50-80k on TAP for a 1970s tiger. If the plane is worth 150k today you still aren’t going to raise the resale value anywhere close to 60k by doing a panel upgrade. You would be far better off selling for 150k, adding in another 60k and buying the plane you actually want for $210k or less. Unless there is some emotional attachment to the plane it doesn’t make sense to put that kind of money into just a new panel and even less sense to finance the money to do it. It’s not my money so I don’t really care but it would be wise to at least think about what else could be done with the money to get what you want and not focus on just how nice a new panel may be.
 
I would never finance an equipment upgrade, in a plane or in an organization. The basic problem is that the useful life of the upgraded equipment can often be less than the term of a loan used to finance the cost, and the cost of the upgrade is also increased by a very significant amount. If you can't self-finance the desired upgrades, it is possible to do it in intelligent stages. That's how I upgraded my AA-5 over about a decade. The upgrade stages were (1) WAAS GPS, (2) autopilot, (3) ADSB in and out, (4) dual G5s. While undoubtedly expensive, the enhancement in operational simplicity and safety is incalculable.

If you have decided you like your current plane, and it fits your long-term mission, I don't think it is worthwhile to be overly concerned about the resale value of avionics upgrades. Rather, the question I asked myself when doing these upgrades is "how much do I value safety and operational simplicity?" All of my upgrades have greatly enhanced flight safety, especially for single-pilot IFR.
 
BarryJI said:
Yes, that's what we are likely to do but given the very large amount involved, financing might enable us to spread out the payments.
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Your partners can do a credit card cash advance for all I care; what you don’t want is their names tied up in a debt instrument if something happens and they have to move on and you certainly don’t want to be a co-signer for their debt.
 
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BarryJI said:
First, thank you for your help and advice; it's much appreciated.

My two partners and I are staring down the barrel of a needed avionics upgrade for our Grumman Tiger at Santa Monica Airport. We feel we must get it all done in as few stages as possible but it's likely to cost us $60k.

Can anyone comment on options to finance this? Are there specialist banks or financial services? I have left a message at AOPA but have not heard back. It's a fairly simple transaction: three partners with good credit, airplane in good shape, no existing note on the airplane or other borrowings.

Thank you once again.
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Daleandee said:
Well, there is the Clyde Barrow/Bonnie Parker method ... :dunno:
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Ummm, I don't think @BarryJI was looking for a terminal solution. Could be wrong, but a bullet-ridden car and a notorious afterlife are not aspirations for most aviators.
 
L J Donelson said:
Could be wrong, but a bullet-ridden car and a notorious afterlife are not aspirations for most aviators.
Click to expand...

I'd say you're likely correct. I didn't say it was a good method to use or one that I'd use myself.

And then there's being facetious ... :dunno:
 
Lindberg said:
Really? Here's one for less than $150k with a very nice panel. Of course there's lots of variation on the market.

www.trade-a-plane.com

GRUMMAN/AMERICAN GENERAL AG5B TIGER Single Engine Piston Aircraft For Sale - Used & New 1 - 2

We have 2 GRUMMAN/AMERICAN GENERAL AG5B TIGER Single Engine Piston Aircraft For Sale. Search our listings for used & new airplanes updated daily from 100's of private sellers & dealers. 1 - 2
www.trade-a-plane.com www.trade-a-plane.com
Click to expand...

They are down some since I last looked. But still, a Tiger in good shape is worth putting a panel in. And a partnership is less likely to be selling the plane out right in a short period of time.
 
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