Optimum CG test

motoadve

Pre-takeoff checklist
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May 12, 2009
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motoadve
This is a test that is totally worth doing, most planes fly with a forward CG, and you need to compensate with power and elevator on approaches or during turns, need to add power and trim all the way back to avoid running out of elevator at slow speeds, this will make your plane fly beautiful, I am not an instructor. so do it at your own risk.

 
This video is misleading; there is no "optimum" CG to be determined by experiment. CG location is a compromise between longitudinal stability and trim drag. As the CG moves aft, trim drag and stability decrease until the neutral point where the aircraft is neutrally stable; beyond that the airplane is unstable. The aircraft designer sets the published aft CG limit a bit forward of the neutral point for a safety margin, so there's always some positive stability. The most forward CG is limited by elevator effectiveness, the ability to hold the nose up in a flare.

With power changes, the airplane will always try to maintain its trim speed. Trim for 80 knots at cruise power and chop the power... the nose will drop, the airplane speeds up, and after a few oscillations will settle into an 80 knot glide, more or less. At aft CGs this tendency is reduced, until at the neutral point there will be no nose drop; instead the airspeed will slowly bleed off. The engine thrust line and the trim system design both affect how the plane behaves.

At the max aft CG, trim drag is lowest, the airplane is "livelier" in pitch, pitch stick forces are lower, and the amount of trim necessary to hold speed is less; with a forward CG the handling is more sluggish, the controls are heavier, it requires larger trim adjustments, and performance will suffer a bit.

It's unsurprising that the CG will be well forward with only the front seats occupied and no baggage, as the airplane has to be able to handle a full load without having an excessively aft CG. With a light load, adding weight aft may well improve handling and performance. The allowable aft limit may well be the "optimum" point (and it is, from a performance standpoint, no experiment necessary). Or the pilot may prefer a bit more stability at a small performance cost with the CG a bit farther forward; that you can determine by experiment. But unless approved by the aircraft manufacturer, adding weight behind the designated baggage area can be very dangerous; even though the aircraft may be within the CG limits, the extra weight aft could cause problems with spin recovery.
 
I’m not a test pilot and a phrase you’ll never hear me say “watch this “.
 
.......The allowable aft limit may well be the "optimum" point (and it is, from a performance standpoint, no experiment necessary). Or the pilot may prefer a bit more stability at a small performance cost with the CG a bit farther forward; that you can determine by experiment. .....
excelent response!
I watched (well mostly listened) to the video this morning while getting ready for work. The point that I personally got hung up on was the concept of optimal...which implies a single defined point within some
tolerance...but it seemed to imply finding by experimentation where that point is based on a starting trim set to somewhere in between neutral and full nose up.
I feel like Dana's response has explained well that the "optimum" in terms of minimal pitch change with power is likely the aft CG limit.
and per the advice in the video so then to that...add some personal safety factor putting the cg say 25% ahead of aft limits, or some other place...
Guess i don't get it..... so you have to bump the trim a bit when you cut power. As long as it's not some huge distracting adjustment...so what?
 
excelent response!
I watched (well mostly listened) to the video this morning while getting ready for work. The point that I personally got hung up on was the concept of optimal...which implies a single defined point within some
tolerance...but it seemed to imply finding by experimentation where that point is based on a starting trim set to somewhere in between neutral and full nose up.
I feel like Dana's response has explained well that the "optimum" in terms of minimal pitch change with power is likely the aft CG limit.
and per the advice in the video so then to that...add some personal safety factor putting the cg say 25% ahead of aft limits, or some other place...
Guess i don't get it..... so you have to bump the trim a bit when you cut power. As long as it's not some huge distracting adjustment...so what?
so it got him a couple views?
 
There is an optimum CG for a given load, which is the point he was making.

I get that some people are afraid to adjust their CG for optimum performance based on load, but some of us do. When I owned my Cardinal adding 30 lbs of lead shot in the baggage area when only two people were in the plane was a great improvement.

I get that some don't want to be adding ballast for light loading because they are concerned about forgetting it and taking off out of CG after adding a full load. Yet some aircraft, like my experimental, have a very wide CG. It allows me to adjust for various loading.
 
so it got him a couple views?
So what. He had a good thought, put a lot of work into fleshing it out and then even more work into putting it together to communicate his idea to us for our benefit, but presumably also for our input and discussion.

Would you have rather he typed the whole thing out?
 
So what. He had a good thought, put a lot of work into fleshing it out and then even more work into putting it together to communicate his idea to us for our benefit, but presumably also for our input and discussion.

Would you have rather he typed the whole thing out?
You asked "so what?" That was my answer.
 
When I owned my Cardinal adding 30 lbs of lead shot in the baggage area when only two people were in the plane was a great improvement.

So, the age old question. Which would have a greater impact on performance? 30 pounds of lead shot, or 30 pounds of feathers??
 
Not all airplanes are created equal...my Bonanza changes CG as fuel is burned because the main and aux tanks are not located at the same distance from the datum. Interesting video...but most of us old guys carry tools and a spare oil in the baggage area already :)
 
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