Olathe, KS plane crash 31Dec2019

I was flying at IXD when it happened. @ja_user and I walked into the FBO just in time for all the text messages to start blowing up the cell phones. IXD and OJC (the accident airport) are 7nm apart, I live between them. I haven’t heard details or names yet.

edit: It just made the national news (watching it right now).
 
From Reddit: "This guy landed right before me and was there to look at buying a new M600 from the Piper dealer there. Multiple eye witness reports from pilots I trust say that the airplane nosed straight up in the air right after takeoff, stalled, then pretty much nosedived into the ground."
 
Matthew said:
I was flying at IXD when it happened. @ja_user and I walked into the FBO just in time for all the text messages to start blowing up the cell phones. IXD and OJC (the accident airport) are 7nm apart, I live between them. I haven’t heard details or names yet.

edit: It just made the national news (watching it right now).
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Just saw it on Fox 4 in KC. Glad you guys are okay.
 
Matthew said:
I was flying at IXD when it happened. @ja_user and I walked into the FBO just in time for all the text messages to start blowing up the cell phones. IXD and OJC (the accident airport) are 7nm apart, I live between them. I haven’t heard details or names yet.

edit: It just made the national news (watching it right now).
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Happened about 2 minutes after I drove by OJC headed home this afternoon.
 
Sounds like he might have forgotten to reset trim for takeoff. A 45 or 50 degree bank while he trimmed might have saved him.
 
Challenged said:
From Reddit: "This guy landed right before me and was there to look at buying a new M600 from the Piper dealer there. Multiple eye witness reports from pilots I trust say that the airplane nosed straight up in the air right after takeoff, stalled, then pretty much nosedived into the ground."
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I remember a time when there was a string of accidents that sounded just like this. They were all caused by the pilot seat sliding back when plane pitched up while pilot held onto yoke.
 
lsaway said:
I remember a time when there was a string of accidents that sounded just like this. They were all caused by the pilot seat sliding back when plane pitched up while pilot held onto yoke.
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If that happened to me in a Mooney I wouldn’t be able to reach to yoke!
 
lsaway said:
I remember a time when there was a string of accidents that sounded just like this. They were all caused by the pilot seat sliding back when plane pitched up while pilot held onto yoke.
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That was my first thought.
 
benyflyguy said:
If that happened to me in a Mooney I wouldn’t be able to reach to yoke!
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The logic is that pilot is pulling back on yoke for rotation. When the seat slides back, the pilot instinctively grips down on the yoke to stop the slide. The end result is that airplane is pulled into a stall and pilot can't push back to recover. There were some Airworthiness Directives on seat tracks on certain planes because of this.
 
lsaway said:
The logic is that pilot is pulling back on yoke for rotation. When the seat slides back, the pilot instinctively grips down on the yoke to stop the slide. The end result is that airplane is pulled into a stall and pilot can't push back to recover. There were some Airworthiness Directives on seat tracks on certain planes because of this.
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I could see how that could happen. Quick and crappy way to go.
 
Not saying it was the seat thing, but give it a little wiggle once set where you want it.

Regarding any trim, reset to takeoff trim after your last landing. Most should be able to compensate for an out of trim condition.
 
sourdough44 said:
Not saying it was the seat thing, but give it a little wiggle once set where you want it.

Regarding any trim, reset to takeoff trim after your last landing. Most should be able to compensate for an out of trim condition.
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Part of the checklist. Seats and seat backs locked. I grab the center frame post above the glare shield and give them a firm wiggle.

As for trim, on my 201 I am always near, and sometimes am at full nose up trim over the numbers. It takes a really STRONG push to keep the nose down on go around until you get nose down trim back in.

My one partner never resets trim after landing, I always put it back to takeoff but he never does. Again, it’s in the checklist several times.
 
sourdough44 said:
Not saying it was the seat thing, but give it a little wiggle once set where you want it.

Regarding any trim, reset to takeoff trim after your last landing. Most should be able to compensate for an out of trim condition.
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We both always did that before takeoff, the right seater too should make sure the seat track is set. It will be interesting to see what they find in this case. :(
 
lsaway said:
I remember a time when there was a string of accidents that sounded just like this. They were all caused by the pilot seat sliding back when plane pitched up while pilot held onto yoke.
Click to expand...
Mostly a Cessna thing; there were several ADs on it, including my plane.
 
And why Cessna gave away the locking reel seat stops for several years. I paid to have one added to the right side, too. In my time that seat's more likely to slide because passengers aren't savvy on how to assure their seat is locked.
 
sourdough44 said:
Not saying it was the seat thing, but give it a little wiggle once set where you want it.

Regarding any trim, reset to takeoff trim after your last landing. Most should be able to compensate for an out of trim condition.
Click to expand...

Good idea .... also open the cowl flaps, too. During the taxi back to wherever the plane will be shut down, there's absolutely no reason not to reconfigure the trim and cowl flaps for takeoff.

Rick
 
Stewartb said:
And why Cessna gave away the locking reel seat stops for several years. I paid to have one added to the right side, too. In my time that seat's more likely to slide because passengers aren't savvy on how to assure their seat is locked.
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And non aviation passengers may instinctively grab the yoke when the seat suddenly goes back.
 
sourdough44 said:
Regarding any trim, reset to takeoff trim after your last landing. Most should be able to compensate for an out of trim condition.
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My routine is to do a "lights/camera/action" flow check entering the runway and a "lights/camera/action" flow check exiting the runway.

Zeldman said:
And non aviation passengers may instinctively grab the yoke when the seat suddenly goes back.
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I always point out to passengers things they can grab if they feel anxious, namely their shoulder harness, their door post and/or the edge of their seat.
 
They'll grab whatever they can reach when scared. My wife's seat has slid twice and the door unlatched in flight once. All were user errors. She knows better than to grab the yoke but that's exactly what she grabbed each time. Lucky for me the two seat events were while taxiing and the door was in level flight and I'm stronger than her. It's not to be taken lightly. I was never comfortable with Aerostops on my seat rail so no way I'd put one on hers. Cessna reels work great.

I've talked to the NTSB after a couple of similar crashes. Seat rails and seat backs are things they look closely at.
 
Rick A said:
Good idea .... also open the cowl flaps, too. During the taxi back to wherever the plane will be shut down, there's absolutely no reason not to reconfigure the trim and cowl flaps for takeoff.

Rick
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Crusty old curmudgeon CFI taught me to close the cowl flaps as the last step before locking the door. He said it may help keep birds and critters from getting up into the engine bay.

Stewartb said:
They'll grab whatever they can reach when scared. My wife's seat has slid twice and the door unlatched in flight once. All were user errors. She knows better than to grab the yoke but that's exactly what she grabbed each time. Lucky for me the two seat events were while taxiing and the door was in level flight and I'm stronger than her. It's not to be taken lightly.
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Damn, that’s one I’ven never considered. Noted for future passenger briefs.
 
Bill Jennings said:
Crusty old curmudgeon CFI taught me to close the cowl flaps as the last step before locking the door. He said it may help keep birds and critters from getting up into the engine bay.
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Valid point if parked outside .... I guess a little smaller cowl flap opening hanging closer to the ground could discourage some critters from moving in. In the few years mine's been parked outside I used foam plugs with red banners. Inside the hangar wildlife has not ever been an issue.

Rick
 
Since we already drifted..

I was told by my CSIP to hit TOGA when entering the runway, that sets up the flight directors so should anything like that happen on takeoff you can engage the AP and potentially have a chance to live. AP button on Perspective is reachable for me at full seat back
 
Zeldman said:
And non aviation passengers may instinctively grab the yoke when the seat suddenly goes back.
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That’s one thing I always make sure to tell a first time flyer (and even seasoned ones too).

‘If for whatever reason your seat slides backwards, DO NOT grab the yoke.’

I’m not sure how good it would do in a real event, but I do try my best to cover that during my pre-flight brief.
 
Bill Jennings said:
Crusty old curmudgeon CFI taught me to close the cowl flaps as the last step before locking the door. He said it may help keep birds and critters from getting up into the engine bay.
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How did he have you close the nose gear door? We always left the gear down and cowl flaps opened on the C177RG.
 
My last thought before take off is nose down if engine lost.

The seat not being locked in makes sense unless his copilot was a licensed pilot. Can’t see both seats not being locked in.

wonder if they loaded a heavy package that shifted on take off.
 
PiperW said:
The seat not being locked in makes sense unless his copilot was a licensed pilot. Can’t see both seats not being locked in.
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If the seat track has issues, doesn't matter if it's locked in. That was the reason for the Cessna AD.
Think the speculation of that as the cause is a bit premature.
 
Hang 4 said:
If the seat track has issues, doesn't matter if it's locked in. That was the reason for the Cessna AD.
Think the speculation of that as the cause is a bit premature.
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Seat “track”issues I seriously doubt, not sure why you would think that. The track is a Fixed rail screwed down, if the screws are lose you would know it.

The seat mechanism not properly engaged or locked into the track is a human error and quite common. Most of the time a little shifting of the seat locks it.

trim is another theory or speculation, which is what we do.....speculate..
Makes better pilots going over possible reasons why a plane falls out of the sky.
 
The big deal with the seat track is the hole in the track that the pin in the seat goes into wears and gets elongated. If the pin isn’t properly seated, it can slide out of the hole at best or not even seat at worst.
 
Ryanb said:
That’s one thing I always make sure to tell a first time flyer (and even seasoned ones too).

‘If for whatever reason your seat slides backwards, DO NOT grab the yoke.’

I’m not sure how good it would do in a real event, but I do try my best to cover that during my pre-flight brief.
Click to expand...
The funny thing about human brains is that they cannot think in the negative: "Don't hit your drive in the water" is a sure-fire way to get your buddy to do just that. Or the old "don't think of pink elephants" example from Psych 101.
It would be far better to say something like "If for whatever reason [you incompetent seat adjuster] your seat slides backwards, cross your arms until we level off."
 
Kenny Phillips said:
The funny thing about human brains is that they cannot think in the negative: "Don't hit your drive in the water" is a sure-fire way to get your buddy to do just that. Or the old "don't think of pink elephants" example from Psych 101.
It would be far better to say something like "If for whatever reason [you incompetent seat adjuster] your seat slides backwards, cross your arms until we level off."
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My pax briefing generally includes - "Don't touch any controls. Feet on the floor and either sit on your hands or cross your arms." I always figure it's better to have their hands occupied before something happens than to expect them to react after something unexpected happens. Sometimes they want to take pictures, but in that case their hands are busy already. It's been a very long time since I've given a first-timer a ride, though. Even if I do tell someone to stay hands-off doesn't mean they will if they panic.
 
QUOTE="Matthew, post: 2852683, member: 351"]My pax briefing generally includes - "Don't touch any controls. Feet on the floor and either sit on your hands or cross your arms." I always figure it's better to have their hands occupied before something happens than to expect them to react after something unexpected happens. Sometimes they want to take pictures, but in that case their hands are busy already. It's been a very long time since I've given a first-timer a ride, though. Even if I do tell someone to stay hands-off doesn't mean they will if they panic.[/QUOTE]

Those who are tardy, or dare touch the controls, do not get fruit cup!!

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