Okay Ford Truck fans: Name this noise

I've never really liked Lincoln's TBH(expect maybe the old classic ones). o_O
 
Diagnosis: Cam Phasers and possibly other components of the timing chain system.

Also shop wants to do the updated single piece spark plug design upgrades while they're in there to alleviate future plug problems.

Because, Ford. And spark plugs. And Ford raising the price on the timing system kit considerably since their last one.

Estimate is about $3000 for it all. Meh.

Ran the numbers and the truck is still worth it.

The Yukon facing a similar bill wouldn't be, it'd just get sold.

But the Lincoln is still worth enough that it's just going to be another in a long list of Ford disappointments for me.

I know better than to buy Ford. Seriously. But I let her get the bling truck...

Never had one that didn't need thousands of dollars in repairs that would have been avoided by proper engineering in the most expensive components. The trend continues. Ford is batting 1000.
 
denverpilot said:
Diagnosis: Cam Phasers and possibly other components of the timing chain system.

Also shop wants to do the updated single piece spark plug design upgrades while they're in there to alleviate future plug problems.

Because, Ford. And spark plugs. And Ford raising the price on the timing system kit considerably since their last one.

Estimate is about $3000 for it all. Meh.

Ran the numbers and the truck is still worth it.

The Yukon facing a similar bill wouldn't be, it'd just get sold.

But the Lincoln is still worth enough that it's just going to be another in a long list of Ford disappointments for me.

I know better than to buy Ford. Seriously. But I let her get the bling truck...

Never had one that didn't need thousands of dollars in repairs that would have been avoided by proper engineering in the most expensive components. The trend continues. Ford is batting 1000.
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What's a Cam Phaser? If it's what I think it is, the cams are literally like the "advance" in a distributor and they detect "load" then it makes sense that being in gear made a difference.
 
luvflyin said:
What's a Cam Phaser? If it's what I think it is, the cams are literally like the "advance" in a distributor and they detect "load" then it makes sense that being in gear made a difference.
Click to expand...

I had to Google it too. Have fun.
 
a9dc45dbeb781b1620da121ad430382f.jpg


LOL!
 
Meh, I had an F-150 for 17 years, had the original 5.4 Triton. I think I ended up putting three COPs on it (and changing only those plugs when I did), the thing was solid as a rock. sold it to my brother, it's going great for him.

Five Fords so far, not a dud in the bunch.
 
Do it yourself, looks like a days worth of work, probably cost you a few hundred.
 
denverpilot said:
Not even close on parts price, let alone how long it would take in my garage.
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Ah, two days max, you can't be a slacker though, as far as the parts go, you really don't know until you get in there. Personally I'd just run it until it broke then get rid of it. Unless I was bored I might go at it myself, I wouldn't put $3,000 into a 100k mile car though.
 
denverpilot said:
I know better than to buy Ford. Seriously. But I let her get the bling truck...

Never had one that didn't need thousands of dollars in repairs that would have been avoided by proper engineering in the most expensive components. The trend continues. Ford is batting 1000.
Click to expand...

Thread derailing time for Ford vs everyone else. I have issue with what you say by "avoided with proper engineering". Ford is the only American car company that is actually innovating. Just because Ford isn't using 80s technology like GM is, and it's hard to understand because it's actually sophisticated does NOT make it poor engineering. GM has essentially had the same crappy truck for the last 20 years and its only marketing strategy is to make a vain attempt at crapping on Ford's innovation. The free market has spoken. Ford sells exactly 2x more f-series trucks than gm sells.

We can ALL agree that rams are the worst. I was watching crash tests (because I'm a nerd) and the ram trucks seemed almost criminally bad. The passenger compartment was almost the first thing to crush, and boy did it.

/Rant
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Thread derailing time for Ford vs everyone else. I have issue with what you say by "avoided with proper engineering". Ford is the only American car company that is actually innovating.
Click to expand...

The problem with Ford's "innovation" is they don't back it when the design is faulty. And this design is well known to be faulty.

They essentially use customers as beta testers. Which, frankly is what my own industry does, so it's seen as "normal" these days -- but it's not technically right.

Complain about Chevy all you like (and I do, too) but that "truck hasn't been updated in forever" issue also means you know exactly what you're getting.

The class action on the spark plug debacle was enormous on this engine and I'm amazed the cam phaser thing never turned into one. How in the hell do you screw up a spark plug and metallurgy in a business you've been in for over 100 years, making internal combustion engines?

Not that class actions really help anyone, they just pay the lawyers.

That said, everyone knew by the time we bought this truck (including us) that the only engine worth a damn in the 2008 range of years was the 5.0. So we knew this was coming.

I'm not worried about it. Pay the "stupid tax" of buying another "Ford innovation" where the customer pays for the design mistakes eventually, and move on.

The truck is sound and these two repairs are likely to keep it going for lots more miles. Next up is the transmission in all likelihood and there's no signs of that problem yet. Slam another 50,000/75,000 miles on it and when it starts to misbehave again turn it into a plow truck.

Ha. A Lincoln bling plow truck for the driveway will be cute. :)

50,000 miles for her is only 1.7 years. All county roads at 50 and highway miles. Nothing hard on the truck at all. Transmission will easily do that, even a Ford transmission. She never tows or carries loads with it.

30,000 miles left in it would be .10/mile. Not great but not awful. 75,000 more would make that .04/mile for these two repairs. It'll likely need something major again in about 50K at the soonest.

So the numbers work to repair it. If it makes it to 200,000 it's trash at that point. Or plow truck.

If she didn't like the thing, it'd be an immediate as-is sale and move on to the next truck for her. She likes it, and has kept it immaculate inside, so she said (after I showed her the numbers) that she's keeping it for the long haul. Her call. It's fine numbers-wise either way.

We both loathe debt and don't want to pull from savings (or work 80 hour weeks) to buy another (unknown condition) used or new truck right now.

Will reassess in two years as long as it behaves until then. And frankly if it craps out inside of two years and 50,000 we can afford to park it dead and deal with it on our own terms or work on it ourselves then. Just not while 3-4 funerals are going on.
 
Not a bad analysis Nate, I forgot about the other stuff you have going on, looks like you have picked a reasonable path. I agree it sucks to have to pay for what is essentially a known defect. Unfortunately just about every car company has them and handles them about the same way. I bought a 2015 Jeep Grand Cherokee that I have said I will only keep until 100k miles to avoid stuff like this.... we'll see what I do at 100k which at the rate I've been going will be about 3 more years.
 
PaulS said:
Do it yourself, looks like a days worth of work, probably cost you a few hundred.
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DIY would save about $1000. It isn't worth it. Here's why.

On the plugs, The likelihood of busting off a plug without the extractor is high, turning one job into a much bigger one. Might get lucky, might not. When one breaks that adds a day or two depending on where it went.

For the cam phasers just those by themselves are higher than your parts estimate and Ford knows they're both going to die. You can try and listen and dork around figuring out which one is busted with a stethoscope but the other one is going to fail. Their kit includes those and all the other parts that have been being slapped by the chain and weakened or stressed or broken so the job can be done right guides, tensioners, chain itself), and that kit alone is three times your parts estimate.

For both the Ford branded fixes for these two repairs you're well over $1500 in parts.

And a lot more work than two days out where we live IF you need other parts, etc...

It's an hour round trip minimum to the closest parts store and I wouldn't use their off-brand parts for anything inside an engine. It's 1.5 hours round trip to NAPA and two to the closest Ford dealer.

Special tools for the plug issue, lots of disassembly to even get at the timing chain, replacing all the components and re-timing everything. None of that bothers me really, but no time for it right now.

That truck would be down two weeks once that job started in my garage, minimum. It'll be definitely done in three days at the shop. I'm fine with paying them to deal with it.

If it was the Yukon, which is only worth $6000 on a good day, yeah... park it and tear into it and drive the Subaru or the Dodge. And hurry up before it snows so she isn't complaining she can't park in her side of the garage. ;)

I appreciate the concern but it's a done deal. They're fixing both Ford specific problems (correctly) with Ford parts including the phaser kit, and it'll be back in the garage probably this weekend and she'll be back to driving it, and she shall be happy. Which of course is the ultimate goal this week.

She's had enough of a bad week to last the rest of her life. Losing $1000 to gain normalcy back for her is fine by me. Literally a "don't care". We're talking two fill-ups of the airplane here. We spent more on three FAA certified piano hinges a couple years ago, and way more on an FAA approved rubber bladder tank. The truck repairs are nothing.

I'll normally do this stuff myself on my trucks or the Subaru, but her truck? pffft. Let the shop fix it right and be done with it.
 
Sorry, I'm calling horse$hit on the spark plug thing. The new plugs are less than $200, and a tube of nickel anti-seize is less than $20. The whole ordeal takes 2-3hrs to do for the novice. Chances are, none of them will break, but they do make some noise upon removal. If you soak them with penetrating oil and just barely break them loose, they come out easily. IF you had an issue, the Lisle Tool plug extractor works well and can be rented, or purchased for less than $100. So, unless you really F-up the Ford TSB on the spark plug change, it shouldn't take more than an afternoon and $300 max.

The cam phaser issue sucks, but it doesn't generally cause much other than noise. It certainly doesn't take $1800 in parts.

Also the 5.0 Coyote didn't exist in 2008 trucks. I don't think it was offered until 2010.

Last note: if you have brown plug boots under the cops, then you have the new spark plug design from the factory and the whole spark plug thing is moot.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Never said the cam phaser issue was $1800 in parts.

Don't care if the plugs are easy DIY.

You're correct. Looking for a two year newer truck with the 5.0 would have been smarter. She wanted the Lincoln badging and bling. Now that she's had a pickup for a while, she doesn't care.

It definitely doesn't have the upgraded plugs.

And the real kicker...

If they screw me on the price, the decision to use them was because of a solid local business networking group in a rural area. All I have to do is document what they overcharged on and by how much, and the twenty or so folks who recommended them will never do business there again.

They'll slit their own throats if they're running a scam on someone because they look like they have a nice truck in a rural area. That definitely happens with a truck like that out here. Be fun to watch them squirm if they try it.

I suspect the estimate is high. They use a high estimate system to make folks feel like they got "value" when they come to pick up and the price is lower.

From all outward appearances they're a stand up shop. We shall see. They won't like me much nor will they like what I have to say to the local business networking group about them, if they're not.
 
denverpilot said:
I suspect the estimate is high. They use a high estimate system to make folks feel like they got "value" when they come to pick up and the price is lower.
.
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I always did an estimate that included everything that could possibly go wrong does go wrong on the repair. I would bet that 90% of my estimates were high, and the final bill was much lower because other things did not break. But I worked on vehicles before electronic computer controlled everything came out.
 
Zeldman said:
I always did an estimate that included everything that could possibly go wrong does go wrong on the repair. I would bet that 90% of my estimates were high, and the final bill was much lower because other things did not break. But I worked on vehicles before electronic computer controlled everything came out.
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And that's what it ended up being. Picked it up tonight after work. The price was quite a bit lower than the estimate UNTIL ...

They found some other problems. Couple of gaskets leaking, and the serpentine belt has been wearing funny and at least a one shops had just recommended and done belt replacement once, without digging in and finding out what was going on. These guys found a pulley and a tensioner problem and replaced them. They didn't like how the belt looked, the owner said, and they'd seen that wear pattern before. Fair enough!

So, end price still came out lower than the estimate, LOTS of labor hours, and the truck is happy happy again for a while. And seeing that they found other problems, and just dealt with them while staying well under their estimate, I like these guys.

They're associated with NAPA so looking at parts prices, I could have done a little better on those, but got a full parts list and report, and plenty of detail on the shop receipt and work orders. But I also *generally* usually feel pretty good about NAPA parts overall. They usually don't cheese out on quality much.

The engine stuff was the Ford kit, and the rest of the assorted stuff looks to be NAPA branded, just looking up some of the parts online.

Parts were probably 10% "high" -- they're making a few bucks there, but that's pretty typical of NAPA shops.

In all, 5 out of 5 on customer service and communication, 5 out of 5 on the actual work done, and 3 out of 5 on dollar value. I can live with that. Especially once I saw all the other work they did, figuring out if that truck was really operating properly.

I suspect they had a look all over that truck and would have mentioned if they found anything else, too... just going by the detail oriented feel of the work done.

Plus. Oil change. And reasonable on a good filter and good semi-synthetic. Haha. It needed one anyway. ;)
 
P.S. Next up. Troubleshooting the CEL that came on last week in the Yukon. Hahah. Not kidding. :) I haven't been able to figure out where I put my code reader. See what I get for putting tools away properly? They're supposed to be scattered across the bench and the tool box tops! Haha.
 
denverpilot said:
And that's what it ended up being. Picked it up tonight after work. The price was quite a bit lower than the estimate UNTIL ...

They found some other problems. Couple of gaskets leaking, and the serpentine belt has been wearing funny and at least a one shops had just recommended and done belt replacement once, without digging in and finding out what was going on. These guys found a pulley and a tensioner problem and replaced them. They didn't like how the belt looked, the owner said, and they'd seen that wear pattern before. Fair enough!

So, end price still came out lower than the estimate, LOTS of labor hours, and the truck is happy happy again for a while. And seeing that they found other problems, and just dealt with them while staying well under their estimate, I like these guys.

They're associated with NAPA so looking at parts prices, I could have done a little better on those, but got a full parts list and report, and plenty of detail on the shop receipt and work orders. But I also *generally* usually feel pretty good about NAPA parts overall. They usually don't cheese out on quality much.

The engine stuff was the Ford kit, and the rest of the assorted stuff looks to be NAPA branded, just looking up some of the parts online.

Parts were probably 10% "high" -- they're making a few bucks there, but that's pretty typical of NAPA shops.

In all, 5 out of 5 on customer service and communication, 5 out of 5 on the actual work done, and 3 out of 5 on dollar value. I can live with that. Especially once I saw all the other work they did, figuring out if that truck was really operating properly.

I suspect they had a look all over that truck and would have mentioned if they found anything else, too... just going by the detail oriented feel of the work done.

Plus. Oil change. And reasonable on a good filter and good semi-synthetic. Haha. It needed one anyway. ;)
Click to expand...

The last shop I worked for, we were a fleet service shop, that is we worked on mostly company vehicles and employee vehicles. They expected us to find and fix other problems. We dealt with the local NAPA Parts store and with the discount NAPA gave us we could actually sell parts to the customer cheaper than if the customer went to the store and bought on their own. Which was really nice when it came time to build an engine for the race cars.

Customer service is important. Good to hear that you like their service and the work. Sounds like a really nice shop. Here where I live shops are closing due to they can't get quality mechanics. The couple of shop owners I know are getting tired of having to help their mechanics. They keep asking me if I want to work for them, even part time.

Start simple on the Yukon. Check coolant level and temperature.
 
Zeldman said:
Start simple on the Yukon. Check coolant level and temperature.
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Ahh already done. I checked all the fluids and then drove it like I stole it for a week with the light on. Zero effs given on the CEL on that truck.

Hahaha. That guy's window sticker above is becoming the norm on that truck.

It's most likely something electrical anyway. Yay GM.

And if it's emissions related it definitely isn't getting fixed until I have time to screw with it. If even then. :) O2 sensor? Who cares! Haha.

Truck's only worth about $4000 cash. Maybe $6000 on a good day if I fix the driver's seat and washed it once in a while. The tires are 1/5 of that.

She's turning into a proper rural beater truck at 13 years old. A very comfortable beater. But a beater. Kinda keeping it around to maybe hang a used snowplow on it someday. The dogs also like it better than the other truck or the Subaru.

Maybe I can get home and find the stupid code reader tonight. Been busy. Unfortunately busy working and NOT flying. Which makes me mildly cranky.
 
denverpilot said:
Ahh already done. I checked all the fluids and then drove it like I stole it for a week with the light on. Zero effs given on the CEL on that truck.

Hahaha. That guy's window sticker above is becoming the norm on that truck.

It's most likely something electrical anyway. Yay GM.

And if it's emissions related it definitely isn't getting fixed until I have time to screw with it. If even then. :) O2 sensor? Who cares! Haha.

Truck's only worth about $4000 cash. Maybe $6000 on a good day if I fix the driver's seat and washed it once in a while. The tires are 1/5 of that.

She's turning into a proper rural beater truck at 13 years old. A very comfortable beater. But a beater. Kinda keeping it around to maybe hang a used snowplow on it someday. The dogs also like it better than the other truck or the Subaru.

Maybe I can get home and find the stupid code reader tonight. Been busy. Unfortunately busy working and NOT flying. Which makes me mildly cranky.
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I know where my code reader is if yours doesn't turn up. Mine is ancient so hafta use my equally ancient laptop. No biggie.
 
Clark1961 said:
I know where my code reader is if yours doesn't turn up. Mine is ancient so hafta use my equally ancient laptop. No biggie.
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Thanks Clark. The Yukon is parked now since I'm dealing with clearing out the brother in law's business locations and that's all with the diesel and the big trailer. Subaru for daily driver and going to funerals, and/or Karen is back in her truck, so there's no rush to figure out what the Yukon is complaining about.
 
denverpilot said:
Thanks Clark. The Yukon is parked now since I'm dealing with clearing out the brother in law's business locations and that's all with the diesel and the big trailer. Subaru for daily driver and going to funerals, and/or Karen is back in her truck, so there's no rush to figure out what the Yukon is complaining about.
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Just remember that GM wouldn't have put the light in there if they didn't intend for it to shine.
 
Clark1961 said:
Just remember that GM wouldn't have put the light in there if they didn't intend for it to shine.
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Black electrical tape will fix the problem. Especially out here where the nanny state doesn't ever check to see if my little light is on or not. LOL.
 
Clark1961 said:
Just remember that GM wouldn't have put the light in there if they didn't intend for it to shine.
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Found the stupid code reader... I put it in a cabinet where automotive stuff NEVER belongs. Because... stupid. LOL.

Anyway, code was P0446... evaporative vent circuit. Probably just needs cleaned, because putting an air filter underneath a pickup truck is pure brilliance on the part of GM. :)

http://www.gmtruckclub.com/forum/th...-p0446-evap-emissions-vent-circuit-low.18964/

But I definitely DGAF now that I know what the code is. Ha... I cleared it and we'll see if it comes back after it does a drive test/evap cycle. It probably will. Haven't had any trouble filling the gas tank, but it's way down the list of interesting/useful things to do.
 
denverpilot said:
Found the stupid code reader... I put it in a cabinet where automotive stuff NEVER belongs. Because... stupid. LOL.
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It's not bad until you find socks in the refrigerator or ice cream in your dresser drawer.
 
denverpilot said:
Alright Ford gurus...

What is this noise?


Details are both in the audio of the video and the description at YouTube.

But to reiterate those:

Truck must be in gear. Moving or stopped and held by the brakes doesn't matter.

Forward or reverse, doesn't matter.

Seems to follow engine RPM but "winds down" after a light tap of the gas pedal/power addition and then clicks back into a "locked" state.

So what component spins up at addition of power but locks stopped when idling at a stop?

I haven't been able to find it.
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I've owned a hotrod shop, building 1000hp Fords and modifying Lamborghinis, Lotus, Porsche and Audi R8's for the last 15 years. I would bet that is a torque converter on its way out, based on the audio.


A few of my cars...I'm a Ford man all the way, other than my weird love for exotics. (I hope these come through and it's ok to post them!)
27z95w0.jpg

1zpiiz5.jpg

2mgwhg.jpg

4vpquo.jpg


And of course I can't leave out my favorite ride- although it was just borrowed:
35ixi6o.jpg
 
Eagledriver65th said:
I've owned a hotrod shop, building 1000hp Fords and modifying Lamborghinis, Lotus, Porsche and Audi R8's for the last 15 years. I would bet that is a torque converter on its way out, based on the audio.


A few of my cars...I'm a Ford man all the way, other than my weird love for exotics. (I hope these come through and it's ok to post them!)
27z95w0.jpg

1zpiiz5.jpg

2mgwhg.jpg

4vpquo.jpg


And of course I can't leave out my favorite ride- although it was just borrowed:
35ixi6o.jpg
Click to expand...


I sure hope you take the 4WD pickups off the pavement every now and then....

And I am not a ford fan, except for the Cleveland, which as you are probably aware, was designed by the same person that designed the BBC, but I would accept a ride in that Mustang.
 
denverpilot said:
Black electrical tape will fix the problem. Especially out here where the nanny state doesn't ever check to see if my little light is on or not. LOL.
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ACC doesn't care in the metro area, either. As long as you tailpipe emissions are clean you can have Christmas lights all lit up in your dash and they can't fail you for that.
 
Lachlan said:
ACC doesn't care in the metro area, either. As long as you tailpipe emissions are clean you can have Christmas lights all lit up in your dash and they can't fail you for that.
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ACC can't test if CEL is on or test cycle is incomplete. The test isn't failed but ya can't renew tags either.
 
Zeldman said:
I sure hope you take the 4WD pickups off the pavement every now and then....

And I am not a ford fan, except for the Cleveland, which as you are probably aware, was designed by the same person that designed the BBC, but I would accept a ride in that Mustang.
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We'll he won't be able to give you a ride in the Mustang because it is owned by a man in New Zealand. It was custom built for a guy named John Cooper. I doubt he has any more connection to the trucks than he does the Mustang.
 
Eagledriver65th said:
I've owned a hotrod shop, building 1000hp Fords and modifying Lamborghinis, Lotus, Porsche and Audi R8's for the last 15 years. I would bet that is a torque converter on its way out, based on the audio.


A few of my cars...I'm a Ford man all the way, other than my weird love for exotics. (I hope these come through and it's ok to post them!)
27z95w0.jpg

1zpiiz5.jpg

2mgwhg.jpg

4vpquo.jpg


And of course I can't leave out my favorite ride- although it was just borrowed:
35ixi6o.jpg
Click to expand...

Already diagnosed and repaired already. Was cam phasers.

But I like your stuff. A bit out of my price league for vehicles since I usually spend discretionary money on the airplane, but nice.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Thread derailing time for Ford vs everyone else. I have issue with what you say by "avoided with proper engineering". Ford is the only American car company that is actually innovating. Just because Ford isn't using 80s technology like GM is, and it's hard to understand because it's actually sophisticated does NOT make it poor engineering. GM has essentially had the same crappy truck for the last 20 years and its only marketing strategy is to make a vain attempt at crapping on Ford's innovation. The free market has spoken. Ford sells exactly 2x more f-series trucks than gm sells.

We can ALL agree that rams are the worst. I was watching crash tests (because I'm a nerd) and the ram trucks seemed almost criminally bad. The passenger compartment was almost the first thing to crush, and boy did it.

/Rant
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Hit the nail on the head. I owned a 5.4L F150 and never had any issues, but I am well aware of the 5.4 problems. I wouldn't own another 5.4L for that reason.Then again it wasn't a Ford engine. My friend has a 2012 (I think) Silverado...thing is just a piece. He takes good care of it too. Constant electrical problems, the dash is already cracked, when you close the door the door panel feels flimsy. Has NO BALLS - step on the gas and your immediately let down. It rides and drives like my grandma's old Cadillac lol. I can't stand vehicles with poor fit and finish and that Silverado is the definition of it.

I will say I like the styling of the new Chevy's - they did a good job on the exterior styling - the interior is "meh", but much better. Chevy interiors were stuck in the '90s forever.

But yea I get a real kick out of the Chevy commercials - "Ford's aluminum sucks! We make our trucks out of cold hard steeeeel!" *next year* "uh yea were thinking about an aluminum body Silverado"...LOL

Chevy does have Apple/Android CarPlay, which I think is a better system than Microsoft Sync.

Toyota's are so overhyped and overpriced now a days. But they are good trucks. My dad owns a Honda Ridgeline and that thing is the dumbest truck I have laid eyes on. Interior is from the '80s.

Fiat owns Dodge now...'nuff said :p
 
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I own
denverpilot said:
Already diagnosed and repaired already. Was cam phasers.

But I like your stuff. A bit out of my price league for vehicles since I usually spend discretionary money on the airplane, but nice.
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a Stearman and a T-6D as well, we can't afford to eat but we have a good time. :)
 
CC268 said:
Hit the nail on the head. I owned a 5.4L F150 and never had any issues, but I am well aware of the 5.4 problems. I wouldn't own another 5.4L for that reason.Then again it wasn't a Ford engine. My friend has a 2012 (I think) Silverado...thing is just a piece. He takes good care of it too. Constant electrical problems, the dash is already cracked, when you close the door the door panel feels flimsy. Has NO BALLS - step on the gas and your immediately let down. It rides and drives like my grandma's old Cadillac lol. I can't stand vehicles with poor fit and finish and that Silverado is the definition of it.

I will say I like the styling of the new Chevy's - they did a good job on the exterior styling - the interior is "meh", but much better. Chevy interiors were stuck in the '90s forever.

But yea I get a real kick out of the Chevy commercials - "Ford's aluminum sucks! We make our trucks out of cold hard steeeeel!" *next year* "uh yea were thinking about an aluminum body Silverado"...LOL

Chevy does have Apple/Android CarPlay, which I think is a better system than Microsoft Sync.

Toyota's are so overhyped and overpriced now a days. But they are good trucks. My dad owns a Honda Ridgeline and that thing is the dumbest truck I have laid eyes on. Interior is from the '80s.

Fiat owns Dodge now...'nuff said :p
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Well said...I'm a Ford guy, but I stoped liking most new cars in 1980, everything I own (American) is pre-80. We never really recovered from the 80's...best music, worst cars.
Ford 7.3 Diesel was great- every other Ford diesel is a pos. Chevy makes some good stuff and some crap, as well. Chrysler...for me, you have to go back to the 60's to find a good Chrysler anything. Rams only bragging rights are the Cummins, which....Chrysler doesn't build, of course. Good engines though, and I like the Allison trannies.
 
Cooter said:
We'll he won't be able to give you a ride in the Mustang because it is owned by a man in New Zealand. It was custom built for a guy named John Cooper. I doubt he has any more connection to the trucks than he does the Mustang.
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You are correct, my mistake. I grabbed the wrong photo and couldn't tell on this verdamnt tiny screen. I feel silly as I hate exposed blowers and would never do that, but you'll have old eyes one day and will understand. :)
2jfysk9.jpg
 
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