odd fuel stop, CRJ700 MSP-->ASE

W

weilke

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
15,232
Display Name
Display name:
weilke
DL4441 is a delayed flight from Minneapolis to Aspen. They just announced that there will be a fuel stop in Grand Junction, CO (GJT) which is 60nm further than ASE.

What combination of airport and operations requirements would force them to do that?
 
Possibly weather at ASE and after holding diverted to GJT for fuel. But I'm guessing. Used to fly the 700. Has the flight departed MSP and arriver GJT?
 
mscard88 said:
Possibly weather at ASE and after holding diverted to GJT for fuel. But I'm guessing. Used to fly the 700. Has the flight departed MSP and arriver GJT?
Click to expand...

They have yet to take off.
 
Maybe they ran out of Jet A at Aspen?
 
Bonchie said:
Maybe they ran out of Jet A at Aspen?
Click to expand...

Why wouldn't they just tanker the fuel instead if that was the case? Seems like that would be cheaper unless they cannot take on enough for the return flight. Seems odd to me as well. I'd think they do a gate hold vs another leg.
 
Unit74 said:
Why wouldn't they just tanker the fuel instead if that was the case? Seems like that would be cheaper unless they cannot take on enough for the return flight. Seems odd to me as well. I'd think they do a gate hold vs another leg.
Click to expand...
That's a long flight for a crj to take extra fuel. It's not an intercontinental aircraft.
 
Bonchie said:
Maybe they ran out of Jet A at Aspen?
Click to expand...
That would be a disaster of epic proportions at this time of year.

I'm guessing the Coke truck broke down in grand junction and the airline is just helping.
 
I wonder whether this is related to the missed at ASE and any special time or fuel requirements it may have under the operators procedures?.

Or maybe it's the shorter hop from GJT to the alternate in case of a miss?

Just thinking aloud.
 
winds right now in the flight levels, are from the west between 50 & 75 mph. Might need to refuel in order to deal with holds or such.
 
murphey said:
winds right now in the flight levels, are from the west between 50 & 75 mph. Might need to refuel in order to deal with holds or such.
Click to expand...

He is refueling 70 nm past his original destination.
 
murphey said:
It's easier to get into GJT than Aspen. Take a look at the charts.
Click to expand...

I suspect they just played the odds of having to go around with the high winds in the mountains and preferred to do that with a bit more fuel in the tanks.

DL4441_MSP_GJT.jpg
DL4441_GJT_ASE.jpg
 
Hmmm, total flight time was about 2 hours. Looking at the history they've flown dal 4431 as a direct 3:30 leg. Maybe it was a relatively heavy load or something that reduced their fuel at MSP?
 
Clark1961 said:
Hmmm, total flight time was about 2 hours. Looking at the history they've flown dal 4431 as a direct 3:30 leg. Maybe it was a relatively heavy load or something that reduced their fuel at MSP?
Click to expand...

Typically, they fly this in 2:30, occasionally up to 3:30. Last saturday it took them 3:58 when they spent a while drawing squiggles on the map.

DL4441_MSP_ASE.jpg



When this change with the fuel stop happened today, a front had just blown through MSP with light snow and high winds (the remants of that winter-storm that iced over the dakotas on sunday). Blustery but not that unusual for a winter day at MSP, not sure that would limit them on the departure side.

On the 24th, the same flight diverted from ASE to GJT, that day it took them 3:09 to get to GJT, 50 minutes more than today. That day, there was no separate segment to ASE, looks like some folks had to ride the bus.
 
Last edited:
During the Christmas season there has been known to be fuel rationing going on in Eagle an Aspen but that typically comes from Glenwood Canyon getting closed due to a rock slide. Sometimes a huge snow storm will do the same thing. That didn't happen this year so I am not sure.

Also, Aspen gets so packed full of airplanes they can't take any more on the ramp and the taxiways turn into waiting areas. Could have been the problem. If they don't have enough fuel to keep an engine running for an hour, they may divert.

I've also heard stories from pilots coming in to Eagle that they have to hold for two hours before they get to shoot an approach.
 
Who operated the flight? If it was skywest I'll ask my brother, who is a dispatcher there.
 
Marky_24 said:
Who operated the flight? If it was skywest I'll ask my brother, who is a dispatcher there.
Click to expand...

Ha! So he was the one who left me stranded at MSP yesterday through a skywest crew scheduling snafu.

The Aspen flight is DL4441 operated by Skywest.

Today it took them 3:31 and they went direct. May have been a fuel availability issue with the holiday. They rather do a 45min technical stop at GJT than sit in Aspen begging for fuel. It looks like the return flight is DL4511 which is supposed to leave at 1:12pm but today is 6hrs delayed and is scheduled to leave at 8pm.
 
Last edited:
My family and I had the misfortune to be involved with some of the Skywest flights in and out of ASE this past week. Skywest pilot told me that they cannot land ASE (15 is the only way in, no go-round possible), with more than a 10kt tailwind.

On 12/25, we saw our plane go missed twice before diverting to GJT. The 1st time there was a tailwind of 11 knots, the second time, they didnt even get close to final approach because the TW was 15kt; and the viz dropped to 1/2 mile with blowing snow. It was frustrating to see that.

On top of it all, delta (skywest) didnt declare the flight officially cancelled until 6pm (it was scheduled to depart at 1pm). Therefore, we missed all opportunities to get a United (skywest) flight out to MSP that day (there were 6 united planes on the ground, that all took off). We ended up having to leave the next AM. Then, we were delayed to MSP from DEN due to the high winds at MSP; they could only use rwy 22.
 
The 10 knot tailwind is a CRJ limitation if I recall correctly, or, at the least, possibly a company operational procedure. Could you land with a 12 knot tailwind in a CRJ? Sure. But if something bad happens they gotcha.
 
10 knots is pretty standard for jets as a max tailwind limitation.
 
Even without a tailwind limitaiton, it might have increased the distances beyond the amount of runway.
 
jordane93 said:
Video also shows how effective the ground lift dumping system is. Instructors drilled into to us to go around if we bounce a landing.
Click to expand...
bad situation. Kind of hard to go around at ASE. Not advised and not impossible in VMC, but hard. Probably should have just gone to Rifle, or circled for a while to see if it calms down.
 
Ozone said:
On top of it all, delta (skywest) didnt declare the flight officially cancelled until 6pm (it was scheduled to depart at 1pm). Therefore, we missed all opportunities to get a United (skywest) flight out to MSP that day (there were 6 united planes on the ground, that all took off). We ended up having to leave the next AM. Then, we were delayed to MSP from DEN due to the high winds at MSP; they could only use rwy 22.
Click to expand...

BTDT.
 
ChemGuy said:
bad situation. Kind of hard to go around at ASE. Not advised and not impossible in VMC, but hard. Probably should have just gone to Rifle, or circled for a while to see if it calms down.
Click to expand...
Actually it's pretty easy to go around at Aspen...just have to have a plan.
 
ChemGuy said:
Insert video of Challenger 600 'landing' with high tailwind at ASE a couple years ago.
Click to expand...

What I'm most curious about is what and why the guy was kicking something right before it switched to camera 5.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top