Odd Class D interaction

Gilbert Buettner

Gilbert Buettner

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Today I took a primary student to a nearby Class D to introduce tower operations. On initial contact, we were told to remain outside the Class D "for inbound traffic" and that the operator would advise when we could enter. I'd never heard that here before.

A Sun Country landed from the south, and a private airplane landed next from the east, while we were holding about seven miles northwest. As the second plane taxied in, we were advised we could enter downwind for 35. Hmm. There was no time we would have been a traffic consideration for the other two.

On downwind we were cleared for a touch and go, and on final the controller asked if we would be departing or requesting another touch and go. I replied that we would like two more. "I can give you one more, but then we have more inbound traffic."

Uh, OK. (Wait, what? There might be another airplane in the pattern? Whoa... )

So, trying to be cooperative, after our second T&G, on departure I said, "If it is helpful, we can depart the pattern." The controller asked which direction, I said north, and he cleared us for a northbound departure. Inbound was still ten miles south.

This is a sleepy Class D, Central Wisconsin Airport. But two or three airplanes is a challenge?
 
I had the same weird interaction happen at KBMI (Bloomington airport in Illinois). It was almost exactly the same scenario you lay out above, an inbound envoy/wisconsin-air/something or other coming in so they told me to remain outside the delta. After the commercial flight landed they let me remain in the pattern until another one wanted to depart at which point I decided to just fly back home.
The delta I fly out of is substantially busier than KBMI with jet traffic (though not regional jets), so I was a little surprised that Bloomington turned me down from even being in their airspace... It made me feel like I'd done something wrong!
 
Could be just one controller on duty and he had other traffic to deal with either on the ground, or approach, or whatever and needed a break?
 
Matthew said:
Could be just one controller on duty and he had other traffic to deal with either on the ground, or approach, or whatever and needed a break?
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At this airport, there is normally only one controller handling air, ground and clearance delivery. I don't know what they do when they need a break.
 
Were they below VFR minimums in a way you didn't realize, like smoke obscuring the tower's vision? Steam on the windows?
 
Most likely they were understaffed for the shift.happens all the time in Florida.
 
Gilbert Buettner said:
At this airport, there is normally only one controller handling air, ground and clearance delivery. I don't know what they do when they need a break.
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Well as a Class C controller, I can tell you that I’ve peed in a gator aid bottle on numerous occasions when I work alone which averages about 16-20 hours a week. I can’t explain what happened in this instance other than they may have a policy of one in - one out for single controller ops.
 
This was happening at KEWN (small class D) for a while with a new controller. When a commuter flight was inbound from Charlotte we had to vacate the area or extend downwind for 15-20 minutes until it landed. I think somebody complained to the tower manager as the behavior eventually stopped.
 
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My local class D has recently started acting like this. Last time there were a bunch of students flying in (one at a time) and doing a landing and taxi back and heading back out. They were timing it pretty well so that as soon as one was leaving another was arriving. They must have had them lined up at the airport where the school is and just churning them out one by one.

Anyway, on the third one (that I heard, there may have been more before that) the pilot states "student pilot" and the controller sighs and said "whatever. I wish you'd do this stuff at your own airport, they get paid more there". Didn't even give any instructions at that point, just the complaint over the air. The student had to call back and ask again.

I thought it was extremely unprofessional and a crap way to treat a student pilot on a cross country.

There was never more than two planes in his airspace the whole time I was listening, but he acted like it was a real chore.

They are obviously trying to get people to avoid the place.
 
Doesn't the number of departures/arrivals calculate into federal grants and funding? Or is it a non-issue?

marc
 
Mxfarm said:
Doesn't the number of departures/arrivals calculate into federal grants and funding? Or is it a non-issue?

marc
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Yes. But I doubt the grumpy controller cares about that. I’m not saying the controllers right but I can kinda understand. Endless touch and goes from endless number of students. If I was a controller, I probably would not want to work at an airport with an active flight school.
 
Morgan3820 said:
Yes. But I doubt the grumpy controller cares about that. I’m not saying the controllers right but I can kinda understand. Endless touch and goes from endless number of students. If I was a controller, I probably would not want to work at an airport with an active flight school.
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Yeah, it would suck to have to do your job all day. ;)
 
Salty said:
Yeah, it would suck to have to do your job all day. ;)
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If it is repetitive and unpleasant, yes. Like I said before, I don’t agree with the behavior.
 
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Morgan3820 said:
If it is repetitive and unpleasant, yes. Like I said before, I don’t agree with the behavior.
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Maybe don’t take a job as a controller if you don’t want to do the job of a controller?
 
I trained at KBDR Bridgeport, CT, a class D non-radar towered field. They used to have some USAir flights there but they didn’t have enough passenger traffic to sustain USAir, so USAir folded its tent and took its Beech 99’s elsewhere The contract tower guys realized that us GA touch and go flyers were the key to their continued employment.

Word of how easily and professionally they handled operations spread. We had two flight schools based on field, and were popular with nearby flight schools, too. I remember one time returning to the airport, and being told that there were 8 planes in the pattern. Their attitude was, “sure, come on in. Keep your eyes open”.

-Skip
 
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I have heard this in a couple class D in S Illinois too. Out in SoCal (KWHP and KVNY) is exact opposite. Tons and tons of traffic with no issues.
 
Timbeck2 said:
I can’t explain what happened in this instance other than they may have a policy of one in - one out for single controller ops.
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I have been taking students there many years, and sometimes - oftentimes - there were other airplanes in the pattern. (I used to keep my own airplane there. I don't remember it EVER being busy.)

We do tower visits, almost always a single controller handling everything, and often multiple aircraft while the guy is educating my student. This is a contract tower, if that matters.
 
Salty said:
Anyway, on the third one (that I heard, there may have been more before that) the pilot states "student pilot" and the controller sighs and said "whatever. I wish you'd do this stuff at your own airport, they get paid more there". Didn't even give any instructions at that point, just the complaint over the air. The student had to call back and ask again.
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LOL that guy is pretty cranky but he's been pretty good the last couple of days..
In his defense, there are a lot of foreign students making unrecognizable calls, miscommunicating their positions, and actually just the other day, the young pilot radioed in and he told her to let him know when she reached the IAF which she never did. Instead he saw her on final and let me tell you he was not a happy camper. She apologized profusely and went around.
One time poor student on his XC solo was not allowed in due to traffic. That really sucked for the young man. One day, my wife and I were at the fuel farm only to hear the conversation by the tower to a solo student from Orlando I think. I guess he didn't enter the correct pattern, decided to land and then proceeded to taxi around the airport without clearance.
Last night I saw a C172 from the flight school taxiing...i'm not ****ting you... probably doing 40-50kt on the taxiway
 
Mxfarm said:
Doesn't the number of departures/arrivals calculate into federal grants and funding? Or is it a non-issue?

marc
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Yes they do, but touch and goes generally don’t count toward that number. Most Airports also have automatic data counters, so people aren’t recording daily operations.
 
Skip Miller said:
I trained at KBDR Bridgeport, CT, a class D non-radar towered field. They used to have some USAir flights there but they didn’t have enough passenger traffic to sustain USAir, so USAir folded its tent and took its Beech 99’s elsewhere The contract tower guys realized that us GA touch and go flyers were the key to their continued employment.

Word of how easily and professionally they handled operations spread. We had two flight schools based on field, and were popular with nearby flight schools, too. I remember one time returning to the airport, and being told that there were 8 planes in the pattern. Their attitude was, “sure, come on in. Keep your eyes open”.

-Skip
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Due to FRG being such a disaster with flight schools, a ton of jet traffic, and a lot of locals flying, I would go to BDR. Tower guys there are always great.
 
i fly into 4 Class D airports that always have a single controller and they accept at least 3 aircraft at a time.
 
Reminded me of this thread. While I don’t agree with the phraseology used here (can’t right now vs standby) it’s still up to the controller to keep an aircraft out until class D services can be provided.
IMG_8325.jpeg


In a perfect world, controllers would be robots and set number of aircraft would be allowed in the Delta. But, like any job, you have rockstars and you have those that are mediocre. Any job that’s under staffed like ATC is, mediocrity will survive.

 
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