Obtaining Approaches to Private Airports

Kelvin

Kelvin

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KTD
So...I am headed to 20GA..Stockmar Field west of Atlanta. The place looks like a gem. Nice runway...decent fuel costs...

I do my due diligence, make sure I can get a car, make sure that I can land and then as directed by the website, I ask for the approach plate that apparently exists for the field.

The guy I spoke to was incredibly nice and explained that in order to get the plate, I had to visit the ATL FSDO to prove that I had an IR.

Is this ordinary?
 
No idea, but the FSDO would already have your certificate info on file, so they would know if you have an IR or not. Maybe they just want to verify it’s really you via in person ID?
 
Kelvin said:
The guy I spoke to was incredibly nice and explained that in order to get the plate, I had to visit the ATL FSDO to prove that I had an IR.
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Didn’t look it up to see who you’d normally ask, but who did you ask for it?

Wouldn’t that person be able to look at your certificate, then take the number and confirm it in the airman database?

Was it someone old enough to be stuck some date prior to the airman database being online who thinks this is AOL days and doesn’t have a modem?

LOL. Sorry man. Just rambling here. :)

Somebody is incredibly dumb in this process.

Here’s hoping the plate is better written than the procedure for getting a copy of it.
 
I spoke to "some guy on the phone" but jiminy crickets...he was versed in all things 20GA. We covered hangars, locations on the field, fuel, prices and rental car availability. When I asked for the plate, he went from being and ambassador to an apologist.

I agree...something is very dumb abut this process...
 
Stockmar is a private airport, private use. I could be wrong, but I don't think the FAA creates approaches for private use airports.
 
write-stuff said:
Stockmar is a private airport, private use. I could be wrong, but I don't think the FAA creates approaches for private use airports.
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But wouldn't the approach have to be the product of the FAA to be a legal approach? I doubt they allow "roll your own" approaches to be used when truly IFR.
 
https://www.airnav.com/airport/20GA

"There are no published instrument procedures at 20GA."

Is there such a thing as an unpublished instrument approach? If the FAA created it, which they would have to, why wouldn't it be published. I'd guess the guy was pulling your leg.
 
midwestpa24 said:
https://www.airnav.com/airport/20GA

"There are no published instrument procedures at 20GA."

Is there such a thing as an unpublished instrument approach? If the FAA created it, which they would have to, why wouldn't it be published. I'd guess the guy was pulling your leg.
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There is such a thing as a Special Instrument Approach though. I read about them somewhere very recently... as in, a couple of days ago. Might have been in an email from FAAST, or a Pilot Workshop, or some such.

Anyway, at least some are published and some will be in your GPS's database, but they still do require special authorization to fly. Some, as I recall, are indeed to private use airports. I have no idea whether the approach at 20GA falls into that category, though.
 
If you notice, a lot in that list are hospital approaches. EMS companies pay a private contractor or the FAA to design a “copter approach” just for them. Since it’s paid for by the company, they limit its use to only company aircraft. You might be able to bring up the approach in your data base, but the plate is only accessed through the company’s private server or the FSDO.

Some airports that are utilized by EMS have them as well. If you check Gilmer (49A), there’s no published approach but EMS has a Copter RNAV and a DP in there.
 
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9026DBE1-D170-4B88-AA98-1183AB3E6C44.jpeg

Military version of a special IAP.
 
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Velocity173 said:
If you notice, a lot in that list are hospital approaches. EMS companies pay a private contractor or the FAA to design a “copter approach” just for them. Since it’s paid for by the company, they limit its use to only company aircraft. You might be able to bring up the approach in your data base, but the plate is only accessed through the company’s private server.

Some airports served by EMS have them as well. If you check Gilmer (49A), there’s no published approach but EMS has a Copter RNAV and a DP in there.
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Sometimes you can see that there is one. Look at Florence, OR, 6S2. There’s that little piece of 700 foot Class E, about a 3 mile radius. There is a Hospital about a half a mile southwest of the airport.
 
luvflyin said:
Sometimes you can see that there is one. Look at Florence, OR, 6S2. There’s that little piece of 700 foot Class E, about a 3 mile radius. There is a Hospital about a half a mile southwest of the airport.
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Yeah, Copter GPS 151. I’d be willing to bet an EMS provider like Reach (EC135) uses that airport for pickup to transfer to a higher trauma center.
 
The FAA might not create the approach but they have it...Stockmar is private and permission is obtained by calling ahead. Once given, it is not rescinded.

write-stuff said:
Stockmar is a private airport, private use. I could be wrong, but I don't think the FAA creates approaches for private use airports.
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Good question. I do not know. Given the FAA has the approach and doles it out, I am pretty sure it is an FAA product. Where is Wally when you need him??
timwinters said:
But wouldn't the approach have to be the product of the FAA to be a legal approach? I doubt they allow "roll your own" approaches to be used when truly IFR.
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You'd guess wrong. :cornut: The approach exists. As I was told, it is given out through the ATL FSDO. I have reached out to the office and look forward to their reply.
midwestpa24 said:
https://www.airnav.com/airport/20GA

"There are no published instrument procedures at 20GA."

Is there such a thing as an unpublished instrument approach? If the FAA created it, which they would have to, why wouldn't it be published. I'd guess the guy was pulling your leg.
Click to expand...

Well there ya go!
midwestpa24 said:
Learn something new everyday. Here is a link to the current list of special instrument procedures and 20GA is on there.

https://nfdc.faa.gov/xwiki/bin/download/NFDC/Flight+Procedures/SpecialProcedures-Jul2018.pdf

Never knew such a "secret" list existed.
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azure said:
There is such a thing as a Special Instrument Approach though. I read about them somewhere very recently... as in, a couple of days ago. Might have been in an email from FAAST, or a Pilot Workshop, or some such.

Anyway, at least some are published and some will be in your GPS's database, but they still do require special authorization to fly. Some, as I recall, are indeed to private use airports. I have no idea whether the approach at 20GA falls into that category, though.
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7fl6 is another one, I think
 
Velocity173 said:
Yeah, Copter GPS 151. I’d be willing to bet an EMS provider like Reach (EC135) uses that airport for pickup to transfer to a higher trauma center.
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Oh. I just assumed the Approach was to the hospital itself, not the Airport. I looked at the satellite map again and didn’t see a big H at the hospital.
 
Yeah, up in Pennsylvania somewhere (near State College as I was flying in to pick up my daughter), there's a little transition area with no airport in it. Turns out there was a helicopter approach to a heliport (some hospital), but it wasn't "published" nor was the heliport charted.
 
@aterpster
Is it usual for the FAA to require approaches to private airports to be filtered to pilots through the FSDO?

In this case, I was told I had to physically visit the FSDO to obtain the plate...seems a bit heavy handed to me...
 
Kelvin said:
@aterpster
Is it usual for the FAA to require approaches to private airports to be filtered to pilots through the FSDO?

In this case, I was told I had to physically visit the FSDO to obtain the plate...seems a bit heavy handed to me...
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It's an RNAV approach, so somehow you've got to get it added to your database as well...maybe the FSDO contact is part of that process.
 
That is the only thong I have read that makes any sense. I have made initial contact wit the FSDO...I think I'll chase this rabbit into the hole to see what is there...
 
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Kelvin said:
That is the only thong I have read that makes any sense. I have made initial contact wit the FSDO...I think I'll chase this rabbit into the hole to see what is there...
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I don't think that reading thongs is going to help (at least with this approach).:eek:
 
A while back, I was flying cross-country and came across a big, honkin' airport, 7,000' paved runway (concrete, not asphalt!), brand new, with PAPI on both ends. One (big) hangar.

It was not on the screen of my 430W, but when I did a "Nearest," I did find the IAPs for it, LPVs at both ends, and from that, I found the airport's identifier, and the fact that someone there commutes to Dallas Love Field every day, usually in a King Air, but sometimes in a Falcon 3-Holer. Nice.

And there's a resort at which an organization I'm involved with had an event; the resort's airport is very nice, but Prior-Permission Required. Permission readily given to land there, but the folks told me that they were no longer allowed to provide the IAP (an LPV) to pilots, but instead, that the pilot was required to visit the FSDO to get the IAP. I later figured out that if you Googled the airport name and "instrument approach," you'd find a blog post with the Plate attached, and it was confirmed to me that the controllers never asked if you'd chatted-up the FSDO before clearing you for the approach. It was in my Avidyne's database in all its glory, but not in ForeFlight. I landed visual, anyway, so no problem.
 
MauleSkinner said:
It's an RNAV approach, so somehow you've got to get it added to your database as well...maybe the FSDO contact is part of that process.
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If this is the RNAV (LNAV-only) approach to rwy 10 at 20GA, it's in my 480's database already (I checked today, just for the halibut). Not sure if it is in all Jepp databases, but it might be. If it's a Special, you still need authorization from whomever (I assume the FSDO) to fly it.
 
Right on.

I am going to check my database tomorrow to see if it is in there...

SCCutler said:
A while back, I was flying cross-country and came across a big, honkin' airport, 7,000' paved runway (concrete, not asphalt!), brand new, with PAPI on both ends. One (big) hangar.

It was not on the screen of my 430W, but when I did a "Nearest," I did find the IAPs for it, LPVs at both ends, and from that, I found the airport's identifier, and the fact that someone there commutes to Dallas Love Field every day, usually in a King Air, but sometimes in a Falcon 3-Holer. Nice.

And there's a resort at which an organization I'm involved with had an event; the resort's airport is very nice, but Prior-Permission Required. Permission readily given to land there, but the folks told me that they were no longer allowed to provide the IAP (an LPV) to pilots, but instead, that the pilot was required to visit the FSDO to get the IAP. I later figured out that if you Googled the airport name and "instrument approach," you'd find a blog post with the Plate attached, and it was confirmed to me that the controllers never asked if you'd chatted-up the FSDO before clearing you for the approach. It was in my Avidyne's database in all its glory, but not in ForeFlight. I landed visual, anyway, so no problem.
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azure said:
If this is the RNAV (LNAV-only) approach to rwy 10 at 20GA, it's in my 480's database already (I checked today, just for the halibut). Not sure if it is in all Jepp databases, but it might be. If it's a Special, you still need authorization from whomever (I assume the FSDO) to fly it.
Click to expand...
 
As an aside, I’ve also seen company only approaches approved by the Feds and the usual distribution of the plate was by going to work for them, and they’d get you a packet of paper plates that were marked confidential or something like that. If you were flying with their company callsign, ATC knew about them and could assign the approaches.

Nowadays I assume the company just shoves the extra plates at you digitally via stuff like ForeFlight’s centralized document management along with other company stuff. Or Jepp’s god awful software. Or whatever they use for an EFB.

Back then they were just included in their company provided Jeppesen “fast” updates where you yanked out whole sections of the book and replaced them en masse. Anybody working for them would happily give anyone they knew the left over paper copy. Not that you’d ever fly it, but you had it if you really had some problem near that airport and needed the plate in an emergency.

Or really just out of curiosity and being a pack rat. LOL.
 
midwestpa24 said:
Learn something new everyday. Here is a link to the current list of special instrument procedures and 20GA is on there.

https://nfdc.faa.gov/xwiki/bin/download/NFDC/Flight+Procedures/SpecialProcedures-Jul2018.pdf

Never knew such a "secret" list existed.
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There are appear to be two helicopter approaches to the hospital that's 0.9 NM from me. Usually they appear to fly visual when we have low ceilings, perhaps they are actually flying an approach. There are several high towers locally as well.
 
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