O-360 High EGT

JohnAJohnson

Cleared for Takeoff
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JohnAJohnson
cross post from red...

During takeoff, got an abnormally high EGT on the #4 cylinder. CHT was OK as were the other numbers. The graph below shows the spike on the #4 EGT (blue line). The spreadsheet below it also shows the rapid EGT climb. During all other phases of flight, including the runup, all EGTs behaved normally. Later in the flight at 3000' AGL, I did a few simulated approaches and go arounds to duplicate takeoffs. Again, all EGTs behaved normally.

- Engine is an O-360-A1F6D in my 74 Cardinal with Marvel MA-4-5 carb.

- SB388C (valve wobble test) was done during annual last month, no problems. This is the second flight out of annual and the first flight showed no abnormalities. Leak-downs were all mid to high 70s.

- Yesterday (day before the flight), the idle mixture was adjusted a bit (1/8 of a turn in) to reduce cutoff RPM rise from 200 down to 60, and idle screw was turned in 1/4 turn to drop the idle from 800 (with mixture full rich) to 700 (with mixture full rich). This low, the idle is not smooth and every 10 seconds or so it sounds like it'll shake the engine off the mount. Adjusting the mixture for best RPM (approximately 760) helps some, but doesn't get rid of the misses. It smooths out at 900 RPM or so.

- Carb was overhauled two years ago, doesn't leak, and all screws/bolts are tight. Carb heat is working as it should.

Questions...

Idle mixture: Can the idle circuit have this large of an impact on the high speed circuit?

Exhaust Valve leaking: Is this possible, with the crud finally blowing out and allowing the valve to start sealing again?

Intake leak?

Spark Plug: These are two year old Fine Wire Champions. If one of the #4 plugs were dropped at annual, could it intermittently fail causing this indication?

Thanks and any input or ideas would be appreciated.

egt2.jpg
 
Usually one non-firing sparkplug... Easy to check
 
Usually one non-firing sparkplug... Easy to check

I am not by any means a mechanic, but I would think that a non-firing plug would result in lower EGT. I will be happy to hear an explanation.
I would think that for some reason that cylinder was running a little lean for a while. Maybe a piece of dirt that passed through later.

But then I am the one that has been fighting with high CHTS for two years in two O360 engines on the same plane (not at the same time of course) and can't get that figured out.
 
I am not by any means a mechanic, but I would think that a non-firing plug would result in lower EGT. I will be happy to hear an explanation.
I would think that for some reason that cylinder was running a little lean for a while. Maybe a piece of dirt that passed through later.

But then I am the one that has been fighting with high CHTS for two years in two O360 engines on the same plane (not at the same time of course) and can't get that figured out.

A dead plug results in a later and less complete burn. More flame goes out the exhaust.

Another likely cause is a leaking intake runner. Bad gasket at the cylinder flange or a loose hose clamp at the sump. The mixture gets lean and hot.

Dan
 
I went out this morning and couldn't duplicate the high EGT. Looks like it went away, which is what I saw on my simulated go arounds yesterday too.

Usually one non-firing sparkplug

I'd imagine an intermittent spark plug is the most likely. If it happens again I'll swap plugs with another cylinder.

Another likely cause is a leaking intake runner. Bad gasket at the cylinder flange or a loose hose clamp at the sump. The mixture gets lean and hot.

This would account for my idle roughness too, but I wonder, how likely is an intermittent intake leak? How would one go about troubleshooting? Same as a car with starting fluid?
 
An non-firing sparkplug will elevate EGTs (see above).

Actually, here's a seque off this topic. When you do a run-up and check each mag... did you know that it is MORE valuable to look for EGTs to "elevate" on Left/Right Magneto check than to look for an RPM drop? Better check for mags... Also, an inflight mag check will show signs of a bad mag before a ground check will. Just FYI
 
A dead plug results in a later and less complete burn. More flame goes out the exhaust.

Another likely cause is a leaking intake runner. Bad gasket at the cylinder flange or a loose hose clamp at the sump. The mixture gets lean and hot.

Dan
I agree with this conclusion ..A 180 HP motor using 19+ gallons an hour is a bit surprising though.....:dunno::dunno:

Ben.
 
did you know that it is MORE valuable to look for EGTs to "elevate" on Left/Right Magneto check than to look for an RPM drop?

Absolutely. I monitor for EGT climb and drop on all four for each mag, and also look for the RPM drop differences, in my engines case, currently 75 RPM. If I have any doubts, I do it again still at 1800 RPM, but fully leaned.

A 180 HP motor using 19+ gallons an hour is a bit surprising though.....:dunno::dunno:

Yep, it's been doing this ever since I've had it. I even had the carb overhauled (and put in the new float) a few years ago. I know normal fuel flow at takoff for the IO-360/200 is 16-17 GPM, and as you saw, my O-360/180 drinks almost 20. My EGTs don't reflect an overly rich mixture (as if it had too big of a main jet), so I'm not sure what's going on with that.
 
John, if it happens again, or even if it doesn't, try an inflight mag check. Also note that GAMI and Cirrus have issued service bulletins recommending removal of Champion fine wires due to manufacturing defects. See GAMI's website for the bulletin, and info on the recommended plug resistor check.

Paul, Cardinal Flyers Online www.cardinalflyers.com
 
John, if it happens again, or even if it doesn't, try an inflight mag check. Also note that GAMI and Cirrus have issued service bulletins recommending removal of Champion fine wires due to manufacturing defects. See GAMI's website for the bulletin, and info on the recommended plug resistor check.

Paul, Cardinal Flyers Online www.cardinalflyers.com

Yep, I looked into the Fine Wire issue but they're calling out only on the 32's and I have RHM38S's. Not sure if that insulates me, or if they just haven't noticed anything flaking out that had 38's in it. Didn't know they have a recommended resistor check. I'll find it and check it on my next oil change.

Went out this morning for my BFR and again, couldn't duplicate it. In between air work, I also did an inflight mag check, no problems. So I guess I'll write this one off as a fluke and continue to monitor.

Thanks Paul.
 
John, if it happens again, or even if it doesn't, try an inflight mag check. Also note that GAMI and Cirrus have issued service bulletins recommending removal of Champion fine wires due to manufacturing defects. See GAMI's website for the bulletin, and info on the recommended plug resistor check.

Paul, Cardinal Flyers Online www.cardinalflyers.com

While Tornado Alley did issue a SB in regards to the Champion spark plugs, Champion also issued a notice in regards to this and its findings that the cracking is being caused by excessive leaning, and running lean of peak. While the lean of peak operation is not bad, you typically go though a stage of detonation to get to lean of peak. It is this detonation period that sends a shock wave that hits the ceramic insulator and leads to the cracking. The massive electro spark plugs are less prone to this problem because the ground electrodes help shield the ceramic insulator from the detonation shockwave.
 
Do you get the LOP "shock wave" even if you're below 65% when you go LOP
 
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