O-200 Life Expectancy

PilotRPI

PilotRPI

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PilotRPI
I'm considering a purchase of a really nice plane with an O-200. The engine had its last major overhaul in 1990 about 750 hours ago. It had a top overhaul in 2003 about 250-300 hours ago.

In addition to hour triggers for overhauls, I believe there is a time limit of 20-25 years (suggested, not required).

So for an O-200 that has been run 30 hours a year for 25 years, can I almost certainly expect to need a major in the immediate future, or do many of these things go much longer than the suggested time limit before overhaul? It seems the bottom end of the O-200 is known for being pretty stout.

Thanks!
 
Calling Tom-D to the white O200 phone, Tom-D to the white O200 phone please.
 
Time doesn't mean much to the 0-200, cylinders will need attention around 1000 hours running 100LL, I've never seen a bottom end failure.

run a magnet into the sump, see what comes out stuck to it.

Add a oil filter if it doesn't have one.
 
Tom-D said:
Time doesn't mean much to the 0-200, cylinders will need attention around 1000 hours running 100LL, I've never seen a bottom end failure.

run a magnet into the sump, see what comes out stuck to it.

Add a oil filter if it doesn't have one.
Click to expand...


Would it help to run ethanol free auto fuel every few tanks? I can't get it on a regular basis but can buy some from a friend at the airport. We have the autofuel STC (1976 150m). We're at about 900smoh and I don't want to buy cylinders!
 
What was done during the top overhaul? You may want to send out an oil sample for testing. The 0 200 is a very strong engine.
 
Mike5250 said:
Would it help to run ethanol free auto fuel every few tanks? I can't get it on a regular basis but can buy some from a friend at the airport. We have the autofuel STC (1976 150m). We're at about 900smoh and I don't want to buy cylinders!
Click to expand...

Continental 4 cylinder engines love a blend of unleaded autofuel and 100LL.

One gallon of 100LL mixed with 2 or 3 galllons unleaded autofuel (25-33% avgas) blend seems about perfect. Your spark plugs and oil will run much cleaner too.
 
I bought a 150 in an almost identical state..it ran for 200 hours (flight training and rental) and I started seeing lots of bearing flake in the oil...so I overhauled...the big deal is will the crank come back..you can grind them to 30 under now so that does improve the odds.

12 years is the calendar TBO I believe

DO THE OIL FILTER MOD
 
It has an oil filter on it. I believe they put on new cylinders at the top overhaul in 2003. Aren't here, ethanol auto fuel can't be found. Think I have to fly a good bit to find it, and the car pumps are all mixed too.
 
There's like two places to buy ethanol free gas in Ma. Most states from virginia south sell ethanol free gas ,at marinas for boats.
 
Just for some thread derailment I filled up at a mom n pop gas station the other day near a lake and immediately started getting 2-3mpg improvement over normal. The drive to the airport is 30 minutes of highway with little traffic, so I know within 1 mpg what my mileage will be.

I went back the next day, tested the fuel and sure enough - no ethanol.
 
Mike5250 said:
Would it help to run ethanol free auto fuel every few tanks? I can't get it on a regular basis but can buy some from a friend at the airport. We have the autofuel STC (1976 150m). We're at about 900smoh and I don't want to buy cylinders!
Click to expand...

Let me know if you come across a consistent source for ethanol free mogas around us. I'd like to get the STC but can't find any place close that would make it worthwhile. I asked (begged) Sky Manor to get it but there doesn't seem to be much interest. Closest place I've found is a garage on the outskirts of ABE. I've considered getting a tank for the bed of my pickup but just can't convince myself that it's a practical idea.

Jim
 
dell30rb said:
pure-gas.org is worth a try
Click to expand...

Yep, I check there regularly. Great site. Unfortunately, there are very few places anywhere near us in SE PA that sell ethanol free mogas. Those that do generally seem to offer 100 octane racing fuel at $10/gallon, which really defeats the purpose. Pure-gas doesn't show anybody selling ethanol free in the entire state of NJ.

Jim
 
Before you run auto fuel. be certain which carb you have, some newer overhauled Kelly carbs have plastic parts that will dissolve in the auto fuel.

If you have a rubber tipped float needle valve it will swell and stop all fuel from entering the carb float bowl.
 
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Pay attention to AD 96-12-06 which required retarding the timing from 28° to 24° on older cylinders. Be nice to know what you've got. That 4° can make a difference.
 
ScottH said:
Pay attention to AD 96-12-06 which required retarding the timing from 28° to 24° on older cylinders. Be nice to know what you've got. That 4° can make a difference.
Click to expand...

New cylinders in 2003 would have that AD "NA"ed by part number or manufacturer. because TCM was not making new cylinders in 2003 for the 0-200.
 
Tom-D said:
Before you run auto fuel. be certain which carb you have, some newer overhauled Kelly carbs have plastic parts that will dissolve in the auto fuel.

If you have a rubber tipped float needle valve it will swell and stop all fuel from entering the carb float bowl.
Click to expand...


Good to know i'll check that this week.
 
Tom-D said:
Before you run auto fuel. be certain which carb you have, some newer overhauled Kelly carbs have plastic parts that will dissolve in the auto fuel.

If you have a rubber tipped float needle valve it will swell and stop all fuel from entering the carb float bowl.
Click to expand...

Only ethanolized MoGas...correct?
 
AVGAS 100LL
Version 1.0
Effective Date 19.03.2010
Material Safety Data Sheet
3/13
Print Date
20.04.2010
numbers predominantly in the C4 to C12 range. Inclu
des
benzene at 0.1 - 5% v/v. Contains lead alkyl anti-k
nock
additives. Maximum lead concentration: 0.56 g/l. Ma
ximum
tetraethyl lead content is 0.125% w/w. May also con
tain
several additives at <0.1% v/v each. This product i
s dyed for
grade identification.
Hazardous Components
Chemical Identity
CAS
EINECS Symbol(s)
R-phrase(s)
Conc.
Gasoline, low
boiling point
naphtha
86290-81-5 289-220-8 F+, Xi, T,
Xn, N
R12
;
R38
;
R45
;
R46
;
R63
;
R65
;
R67
;
R51/53
99.00 - 100.00 %
Tetraethyl lead
78-00-2 201-075-4 T+, N
R26/27/28
;
R61
;
R62
;
R33
;
R50/53
0.00 - 0.125 %
Additional Information
:
Contains Benzene, CAS # 71-43-2.
Contains Toluene, CAS #
108-88-3.
Contains Ethylbenzene, CAS # 100-41-4.
Contains
n-Hexane, CAS # 110-54-3.
Contains Xylene (Mixed Isomers),
CAS # 1330-20-7.
Contains Naphthalene, CAS # 91-20-3.
Contains Cyclo-hexane, CAS# 110-82-7.
Contains Tri-methyl-benzene (all isomers), CAS# 255
51-13-7.
Dyes and markers can be used to indicate tax status
and
prevent fraud.
Refer to chapter 16 for full text of EC R-phrases
 
E-10 will swell the typical aircraft "rubber" hoses enough to block the fuel flow on takeoff (no, it wasn't me - it was a co-worker).
 
Neal Howard said:
100LL normally contains a fair amount of toluene. Various MSDS sheets report as much as 10% or more.
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EPIC Fuels 100LL: Up to 20% toluene
http://www.epicaviationllc.com/uploads/images/Leaded-Avgas-SDS-US-01-22-14-FINAL.pdf

Conoco Phillips 100LL: Anywhere from 1 to 10% toluene
http://www.phillips66aviation.com/pdfs/AvGas MSDS.pdf

ExxonMobil 100LL: Up to 15% toluene
http://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/IntApps/psims/psims.aspx must search for avgas, there's no direct link to the document, the results link to the document, in RTF format, is dynamically generated.

Air BP: 15-20% Toluene (5-10% xylene and 5-10% ethylbenzene as well)
https://bpgps.complyplus.com/MSDS/LoadMSDSImageFile.asp?S=131422&F=731420.pdf


In a nutshell, 100LL avgas sold today in the USA has significant amounts of aromatic compounds in it, added as blending stock. Pure benzene content has been reduced to trace levels due to benzene is now known to cause leukemia, bone and other cancers, but avgas used to be chock full of benzene many years ago because it performed excellent as a piston engine fuel... until its carcinogenicity became widely known.
 
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White gas fuel stock will still contain all the residue chemicals that normally come out of the cracking tower at a higher level.

that said, 100LL levels of this chemicals are very low and will not harm the rubber/plastic components in the fuel system.

Prior to removing the lead from auto fuel, we had none of these problems, we had carbs with brass floats, steel needle valves.
You can not buy a carb for any Lycoming or TCM engine that does not have a big warning about using auto fuel in it.

You don't have to believe me, call the Kelly aerospace, I have.
 
What are the compressions? Once the compression goes below 70, then engine is on it's last legs.
 
coloradobluesky said:
What are the compressions? Once the compression goes below 70, then engine is on it's last legs.
Click to expand...

Not really, I just overhauled one that had not had any compression readings above 70 in the past 20 years.
 
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