NYS driver's license "Not for federal purposes"

Daniel Katz

Daniel Katz

Filing Flight Plan
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121mhz
This is kind of a dumb question, but I'm curious so I'll post.... NYS didn't comply with whatever TSA rules for license compliance for years and so we all need to go down to DMV and prove our citizenship to get a "Real ID" (oh, and we get to pay more for that privilege, yay!) DMV was recommending that everyone do it when their license expired... sounds good, whatever.

So this year, my license was expiring. I had planned to go to DMV to get it done when Corona closed the world... even the DMV! So I went to my local eye doctor, got the vision test (yes, had to pay for that), submitted the application for renewal to DMV and got my license... it now says "NOT FOR FEDERAL PURPOSES." Whatever... but... 14 CFR part 61.3 might be construed as a "federal purpose!"

The important part here:
(2) Has a photo identification that is in that person's physical possession or readily accessible in the aircraft when exercising the privileges of that pilot certificate or authorization. The photo identification must be a:

(i) Driver's license issued by a State, the District of Columbia, or territory or possession of the United States;
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For now, I'm flying with my passport, just to be extra safe. I'll go to DMV when it opens for real and "Upgrade" to a "real ID!" and get that sentence removed from my license, but I wonder what you guys think? Am I being overly cautious or can my license no longer qualify under the 61.3 requirement?
 
It doesn't qualify. Same thing here in Michigan. Here's the stupid thing about Michigan and their ID system:

I have a regular drivers license, not for federal use. That database is also tied to the concealed pistol license database. It uses the same picture, it has my drivers license number ON MY CPL. And for my CPL, I needed to prove all the things needed for the Real ID provision for my drivers license, and even more (fed background check, finger prints, etc...) but can they just port that info over? Nooooooooooooo. Idiots.
 
Interesting: I'm in the same boat in my State. RealID started being issued a month after I got my current DL. I haven't upgraded it yet, if I need RealID I've used my passport. The next problem is my passport will expire before my DL, so I'll need to get at least one of them renewed soon.

"Driver's license issued by a State, the District of Columbia, or territory or possession of the Unites States;"

I'd say your, and my, DL qualify.

"For Federal Purposes" seems to generally mean entry into a Federal installation, like a military base, where RealID is specifically required.
 
Matthew said:
"For Federal Purposes" seems to generally mean entry into a Federal installation, like a military base, where RealID is specifically required.
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...or boarding a commercial flight this October (but that may have been pushed back with C19 going on)
 
EdFred said:
...or boarding a commercial flight this October (but that may have been pushed back with C19 going on)
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The REAL ID deadline was pushed a year to October 2021 because of COVID.
 
EdFred said:
...or boarding a commercial flight...
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That, too. I didn’t list everything, but those regs specifically require RealID where the FAR doesn’t (at least not that particular FAR).

edit:

My take has been this is the workaround for not having a picture on our pilot certificates. I don’t think pilot certificates are RealID compliant anyway, so there wasn’t a need for the photo ID to be compliant either? Dunno.
 
Matthew said:
My take has been this is the workaround for not having a picture on our pilot certificates. I don’t think pilot certificates are RealID compliant anyway, so there wasn’t a need for the photo ID to be compliant either? Dunno.
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That's exactly what it was intended for when it was introduced, but who knows what they're using it for now.
 
Passport card or one of the trusted traveler cards (Global Entry, Nexus, etc) all work as Federal ID. Likewise things like TWIC.
 
WA is the same. They’ve tried to place the blame on the Feds for unreasonable ID requirements....but the actual reason is because the state will give a DL to an undocumented immigrant. Bringing the basic ID up to Federal ID standards would require this practice to stop. Our governor/legislature even made it a crime for citizenship info (or lack of) to be shared by DOL to law enforcement.

Thus, we get to pay for an “enhanced” DL at a premium price and premium PITA to prove we are who we say...

And I’ll stop there so I don’t get clipped.
 
I use my passport. You can also instruct your bank to require a passport card or passport as ID. In that case they will not accept a state DL as ID.
 
I worked several years for a large agency that deals with intl travellers. I never gave or saw anyone give a rats a** about DL’s that have that oddball “not for Federal ID purposes”. The others here are mostly correct - the states do that so they can continue to issue ID cards that do not meet the REAL ID Act’s requirements. Note that said Act was supposed to go into effect like 15 years ago and they’ve kicked the can every year since then. Many land border CBP officers will even accept a photocopy of a library card as an ID. I did it all the time as I would get chastised by management if said traveller complained that I was “harassing” them due to showing a pathetic means of ID.
 
Same here in New Mexico.

NM has been giving drivers license to illegal immigrants for years, decades. NM was known as a easy entryway to the US for illegals.

Then someone at the federal level decided to crack down on giving DLs to anyone that ask. So then it was required to get a new DL at cost. Pain in the rear for sure, because the local DMV was vastly understaffed for the task, and state ruled that a person can't go outside the county of residence to get a DL renewed. Meaning we can't go to the next county over where the DMV is comfortably staffed and renewing anything takes a few minutes.

But it is done and over now.

My first Alaska DL looked I cut and pasted it together.....
 
wsuffa said:
Likewise things like TWIC.
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Yep, that's about the only mileage I get out of my TWIC card. Oddly, the further you are from a seaport, the more it seems the TSA accepts it blindly. I've only had a problem at CLT and DCA. In the DCA case, I got a nice personal letter back from the TSA station chief letting me know that their doc checkers had been "reeducated" with regard to TWIC. Afterall, it's TSA's own stupid card.
 
I wont get a new DL until mine expires in 2046. I'll just use my passport for anything requiring a real ID
 
NJ has the same problem. They've dumbed down the ID requirements for issuing a drivers license to the point where a standard NJ license is of no more use as an ID than an expired Blockbuster Video card. It's almost to the point where you can walk into Motor Vehicles to register as a voter, and they'll hand you a license as a parting gift.

So I'm also waiting for an opportunity to get a Real ID, acceptable for commercial air travel. In the meantime, I know my passport will work perfectly well, but I figure it's just a matter of time before I forget to bring it with me to the airport, and I'd rather avoid that scenario.
 
GaryM said:
So I'm also waiting for an opportunity to get a Real ID, acceptable for commercial air travel. In the meantime, I know my passport will work perfectly well, but I figure it's just a matter of time before I forget to bring it with me to the airport, and I'd rather avoid that scenario.
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Passport card in your wallet right behind your driver’s license.
 
Idaho is equally dumb. I moved into Idaho late last year so my wife and I went to get new driver licenses. In order to get the “Real ID” compliant licenses, I needed to bring two pieces of U.S. Govt issued documents. So I brought my Passport and my DD-214. Idaho says the DD-214 isn’t good enough. WTF!!!! I needed to bring my original issue Social Security Card. Since I am 64 and got my SSN when I was 14, I asked the DMV dude how reasonable would it be to have a card issued 50 years ago? I pointed out my DD-214 has my SSN on it but he said that was a “secondary” document. But as he was scanning it for the DMV records, I asked if he could redact my SSN since the state of Idaho was unwilling to share their cyber policy with me on how they are going to protect my SSN. He said no - they needed the SSN to cross link to my driver’s license. Talk about an ass-backward state!! Pretty sure I will be getting notice any day now from the Idaho DMV that their system has been hacked, my SSN is on the loose (again) and I should buy credit monitoring services including the darkweb. So F them - I will just use my Passport.
 
Jumpmaster said:
Idaho is equally dumb. I moved into Idaho late last year so my wife and I went to get new driver licenses. In order to get the “Real ID” compliant licenses, I needed to bring two pieces of U.S. Govt issued documents. So I brought my Passport and my DD-214. Idaho says the DD-214 isn’t good enough. WTF!!!! I needed to bring my original issue Social Security Card. Since I am 64 and got my SSN when I was 14, I asked the DMV dude how reasonable would it be to have a card issued 50 years ago? I pointed out my DD-214 has my SSN on it but he said that was a “secondary” document. But as he was scanning it for the DMV records, I asked if he could redact my SSN since the state of Idaho was unwilling to share their cyber policy with me on how they are going to protect my SSN. He said no - they needed the SSN to cross link to my driver’s license. Talk about an ass-backward state!! Pretty sure I will be getting notice any day now from the Idaho DMV that their system has been hacked, my SSN is on the loose (again) and I should buy credit monitoring services including the darkweb. So F them - I will just use my Passport.
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When I lived in Idaho back in the 80s, your driver's license number was the same as your SS number; like the number on your pilot's certificate. I thought that was pretty convenient back then... who knew? Well, some might have known but certainly not me.
 
Omalley1537 said:
WA is the same. They’ve tried to place the blame on the Feds for unreasonable ID requirements....but the actual reason is because the state will give a DL to an undocumented immigrant.
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In NY, the reason was that NY lawmakers made a new law which prohibits participation in the data sharing program which DHS uses to clear people. So at least in that case, it was the NY legislative body actively cutting your license off. DHS changed nothing. I suspect it was similar in Michigan.

amazing how far some people will push it.
 
So I’m little confused about my Enhanced NY drivers license. Is it a valid photo ID for federal purposes?
 
It should be. That was one of the points of the Real ID law; enhanced drivers licenses are the result.

I had planned to finally upgrade my driver license this year. But my license expired the same month we went into lock down. I called up the state dmv and was told to apply online for a basic license renewal, and that there would be an opportunity later in the year to get an appointment for an enhanced license. I was told that the fee for the basic license would be credited towards the cost of the enhanced license when that time comes.
 
EdFred said:
...or boarding a commercial flight this October (but that may have been pushed back with C19 going on)
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midwestpa24 said:
The REAL ID deadline was pushed a year to October 2021 because of COVID.
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If you think it was only COVID, you're fooling yourself.

MajorTurbulence said:
So I’m little confused about my Enhanced NY drivers license. Is it a valid photo ID for federal purposes?
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Yes, the EDL can be used as REAL ID and also has added benefits, like border crossing at land borders.
 
Just to chime in. I just recently spoke with the Sec. Of State office here in Michigan requesting a replacement DL with the flag. If you have an Enhanced Driver License it Does meet the new federal requirement for boarding commercial aircraft. Also for entering Canada.
Reason for the conversation is my E-license has a star and not the U.S. Flag that is required in (now) 2021. They say the Star meets the federal regs until the expiration date of the state license, whereupon the new one will have the flag in place of the star. Good to go.
 
Dr. O said:
Just to chime in. I just recently spoke with the Sec. Of State office here in Michigan requesting a replacement DL with the flag. If you have an Enhanced Driver License it Does meet the new federal requirement for boarding commercial aircraft. Also for entering Canada.
Reason for the conversation is my E-license has a star and not the U.S. Flag that is required in (now) 2021. They say the Star meets the federal regs until the expiration date of the state license, whereupon the new one will have the flag in place of the star. Good to go.
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O.M.G.!!!!!!! A STAR and not a FLAG??????? That's INSANE!!!!!!! What is this world coming to?????
 
MajorTurbulence said:
So I’m little confused about my Enhanced NY drivers license. Is it a valid photo ID for federal purposes?
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Yes. For while TSA employees were not sufficiently trained to recognize the NY Enhanced license as meeting Real ID requirements. It does. I got an enhanced license because of frequent travel to and from Canada. Never had a problem with airline travel with it. Before that, I use to carry my Passport card for domestic airline travel.
 
Yep, people with a clue were warning that the October date, if implemented, was going to result in a catastrophe at the screening lines since before anybody heard COVID.

And as var as the Enhanced NY licenses, probably related to the political retaliation the DHS just got caught at (and their perjury to the federal judiciary).
 
Most, if not all of the states issuing "no questions asked", driver's licenses also have active motor-voter laws. Think about that.
 
Domenick said:
Most, if not all of the states issuing "no questions asked", driver's licenses also have active motor-voter laws. Think about that.[/QUOTE
ALL states are required motor voter. It's a federal law. That's a nonsensical political statement.
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I upgraded mine last year, pretty easy, although I did have to go back because I misread one of the "tax form" requirements.
 
flyingron said:
And as var as the Enhanced NY licenses, probably related to the political retaliation the DHS just got caught at (and their perjury to the federal judiciary).
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I don't recall any issues using the NY Enhanced Driver's license for federally recognized ID, e.g. airline travel. There was a moratorium on allowing NY state residents obtaining or renewing trusted traveler status for Global Entry (but not TSA precheck), IIRC. That moratorium was a bit childish and petty, and DHS got caught with their pantaloons down for that, singling out NY state while other states with similar DL laws were left alone. Getting an enhanced DL is easy-peasy, but you do have to do it in person at the DMV, which requires making an appointment in most counties while the pandemic lasts.
 
Dr. O said:
Just to chime in. I just recently spoke with the Sec. Of State office here in Michigan requesting a replacement DL with the flag. If you have an Enhanced Driver License it Does meet the new federal requirement for boarding commercial aircraft. Also for entering Canada.
Reason for the conversation is my E-license has a star and not the U.S. Flag that is required in (now) 2021. They say the Star meets the federal regs until the expiration date of the state license, whereupon the new one will have the flag in place of the star. Good to go.
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Well they partially blew smoke up your ***.
This is precisely why US states should have NOT been granted the ability to issue official documents that identify nationality. I’ve seen a Michigan EDL (enhanced driver license) that that issued to a 100% foreign national by ERROR. The DMV nitwit thought that a LPR/Green Card/I-551 holder was a legit US Citizen. I digress...
If you want to use your “star” Real ID compliant document to board a domestic flight then you’ll be fine. If you attempt to cross into Canadia with that (when the border reopens to Yankees), then they’ll laugh you out of the inspection area. You’ll need the “flag” and the MRZ/RFID chip in the ID if you want to use your DL as your sole ID. I’ll be honest I don’t know if these Reál ID’a have the chips in them but they sure do not have the MRZ (machine readable zone).
On a side note, when I attempted to get a Reál ID drivers license I showed my NEXUS Trusted Traveler Card (USA), issued by DHS/CBP, and the Michigan DMV lady said it wasn’t an allowed document. Wtf.

Please don’t get me started on Indian tribal ID’s omg... (poloroid photo of a man while hold a beer, wearing sunglasses, etc). Oh by the way the Indians are basically exempt from the Reál ID thing. So are the Old Order Amish.
 
flyingron said:
Yep, people with a clue were warning that the October date, if implemented, was going to result in a catastrophe at the screening lines since before anybody heard COVID.

And as var as the Enhanced NY licenses, probably related to the political retaliation the DHS just got caught at (and their perjury to the federal judiciary).
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RealID passed in 2005 and was originally scheduled for implementation by 2008. If you don't have a compliant ID twelve years later, blame your state not COVID.
 
The U.S. Card Passport has limitations for foreign travel.
  • They cannot be used for international air travel.
  • They may only be used for entering the U.S. at land border crossings and sea ports-of-entry from Canada, Mexico, The Caribbean, and Bermuda.
US Passport Book and Card.jpg
 
Sigh... California is the same. Two pieces of government ID. Turns out a vehicle registration works as one proof of ID. No picture, just your name, address printed on the registration counts. But my pilot's certificate does not qualify.

I did get a "Real ID" since, as a Sport Pilot, I fly on my driver's license in lieu of a medical. I wanted to avoid any hassles or questions whatsoever.
 
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rtk11 said:
Sigh... California is the same. Two pieces of government ID. Turns out a vehicle registration works as one proof of ID. No picture, just your name, address printed on the registration counts. But my pilot's certificate does not qualify.

I did get a "Real ID" since, as a Sports Pilot, I fly on my driver's license in lieu of a medical. I wanted to avoid any hassles or questions whatsoever.
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I got "Real ID" a couple of years ago when I lived in San Francisco. When I moved up to Santa Rosa I went to the DMV up here and did a change of address, but about three weeks later got a letter from DMV that they needed another ID (utility bill, credit card statement or similar) addressed to me at my Santa Rosa address. Apparently, the clerk who did my change of address neglected to ask for that when I was in the office doing the change of address paperwork.
 
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