NYCPD confiscates bikes....

dmccormack said:
The president doesn't ride in a 1980s Plymouth.
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The first picture a hardened S-class, the second one a non-hardened 7-series.

Either way, like the guy or not, but I don't think you wish him an IED encounter, right ?
 
My son has an internship in the city. He took my RAGBRAI party bike with him to New York. It is not only a very expensive made custom bike, but it also has a lot of memories taht go with it. I told him he was in big trouble if it got stolen. I am serious, even if it is stolen by NYPD. :mad: I'll have to e-mail him to make sure it wasn't parked on the route. Actually I'm sure it wasn't, I just wanted to tell everyone about my bike.:D
 
I'm an avid cyclist, but I do have to admit that many bicyclists in New York City (and probably all bicyclists in Manhattan) tend to feel perpetually persecuted. They also tend to get into a lot of conflicts with the police, which nine out of ten times are their own fault for completely disregarding traffic, parking, and most other rules.

This case was no exception. There were "No Parking" signs posted on the streetlights and the bicycle racks for several days prior to the motorcade. These signs typically mean that the road is going to be closed for some reason or another (road repairs, movie filming, parade, etc.), and people know that cars, and sometimes bikes, that are parked there will be removed by the NYPD.

We had this happen a few days ago in my neighborhood because they were filming a movie. It's nothing unusual. But watch the cyclists who ignored the signs and had their bikes carted away file a lawsuit against the city (if they haven't done so already).

-Rich
 
How concerned that one or more of the bikes is a pipe bomb if the most protection they have in collecting them are NYPD wind breakers? No Bomb squad. What precautions did they take when the stored them hmmmmmmm
 
AdamZ said:
How concerned that one or more of the bikes is a pipe bomb if the most protection they have in collecting them are NYPD wind breakers? No Bomb squad. What precautions did they take when the stored them hmmmmmmm
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By sweeping the route of bikes you remove a potential hiding place... makes it easier to clear the route, and ensure it remains clear.
 
It would be pretty easy for a terrorist to put one in one of those steel tubular crowd control barriers seen in the first shot..... sigh. It's always something.
 
Doggtyred said:
By sweeping the route of bikes you remove a potential hiding place... makes it easier to clear the route, and ensure it remains clear.
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Sure, but why bother? There are 1000 additional hiding places. Removing one doesn't help at all when it's just as easy to use one of the others; it just gives a false sense of security.

"Hey look, my truck is large and it's a 4x4. I'm safe now!"
 
Well regardless of whether is a stupid thing to do they should have at least posted the area letting folks know what they are going to do. Hlow the heck are they going to verify ownership when folks come to claim them.
 
AdamZ said:
Well regardless of whether is a stupid thing to do they should have at least posted the area letting folks know what they are going to do. Hlow the heck are they going to verify ownership when folks come to claim them.
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They're not. The bikes are gone for good, at least until a bike owner or groups sues the city.
 
wsuffa said:
They're not. The bikes are gone for good, at least until a bike owner or groups sues the city.
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Dunno, they tow cars all day to accomodate utility work and all you have to do is show up at the pound and pick it up. PITA, but unless you owe them on tickets they usually don't send your car to auction before you get there.

Some of the prior bike confiscations may be different in that they where part of the power-games between the police commissioner and the 'critical mass' bike anarchists.

RJM67 posted above that the street was posted with no-parking signs, unfortunately NYC bicyclists seem to think that any kind of sign (one-way, pedextrian xing, dismount bike) only applies to others.
 
Seems like they are just sitting around the campfire like a bunch of good ol' boys, sipping tea, not pointing the bottom of their feet at each other, dreaming up ludicrous scenarios to keep our security services busy.

How soon until Al Queda leaks the notion of coating asphalt with a black-colored explosive layer, with the explosive power of 100 sticks of dynamite per square meter? We'll have to repave every road in the country.

Here's another one -- suicide bombers dressed as girl scouts selling mini-bombs disguised as girl scout cookie boxes. On a specific Saturday in the fall grocery stores and malls all over the country will erupt in flames...
 
weilke said:
Dunno, they tow cars all day to accomodate utility work and all you have to do is show up at the pound and pick it up. PITA, but unless you owe them on tickets they usually don't send your car to auction before you get there.
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Cars have registration tags. For the most part, bikes don't.

Some of the prior bike confiscations may be different in that they where part of the power-games between the police commissioner and the 'critical mass' bike anarchists.

RJM67 posted above that the street was posted with no-parking signs, unfortunately NYC bicyclists seem to think that any kind of sign (one-way, pedextrian xing, dismount bike) only applies to others.
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No parking is entirely different than "no chaining a bike to a post".

While I agree that many bikes act lawless (for example, bike couriers) and a great many ignore traffic signs... and there are quite a few "holier than thou" types that I'd like to see put into their place, without knowing the NYC bike laws I'm not yet willing to say that "no parking" means "no bicycles". Cars <> bikes.
 
wsuffa said:
Cars have registration tags. For the most part, bikes don't.

No parking is entirely different than "no chaining a bike to a post".

While I agree that many bikes act lawless (for example, bike couriers) and a great many ignore traffic signs... and there are quite a few "holier than thou" types that I'd like to see put into their place, without knowing the NYC bike laws I'm not yet willing to say that "no parking" means "no bicycles". Cars <> bikes.
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Actually, in this case, there were "no parking" signs taped to the bike racks. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the anarcho-cyclists tore them off, but they were there at one point.

It's tolerated (but not specifically legal) to chain a bike to a parking meter or lamppost (but never to a tree). But when parking is restricted on the street for a special event, typically the bikes along that street have to go, as well. Usually parking is restricted because of movie filming; street, sidewalk, or utility repairs; or parades / demonstrations, and bicycles would be in the way. This really is not unusual, although the anarcho-cyclists will surely claim that it is.

Also, the NYPD has been registering bicycles (voluntarily) since I was a child. It's free, and all one has to do is make an appointment to go to their police precinct with the bike.

Once registered, the bicycle is marked with an engraver (usually under the pedal crank housing), a label like this one is affixed to the bike,

cp_bike.gif


and the owner is given a card with the registration information. That few bicyclists avail themselves of bicycle registration, which would have allowed the city to identify the bicycles' owners, is not the NYPD's fault.

-Rich
 
bbchien said:
It would be pretty easy for a terrorist to put one in one of those steel tubular crowd control barriers seen in the first shot..... sigh. It's always something.
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The Secret Service has admitted that they would be hard pressed to protect anyone against a determined attacker who is willing to give up their life in the attack. Their best defense is to keep the President's movements secret and deny an assassin time to plan the attack.

Also, most would-be assassins who don't like the President's politics would be hard pressed to argue that Biden or Pelosi taking over would change things.
 
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I really hate this. He's just this guy, you know. Four US presidents have been assassinated during their term of office. The United States is still here. The world did not stop turning. Its the job, not the dude.

The guy who volunteers should have a reasonable expectation of security. Having his own plane makes sense, as do the bulletproof limos. But if he's really going to go out and be with the people, then there will be risk, and these overreactions by the SS are just nuts. No fly zones and bicycle lockups and all this other nonsense, paid for by us.
 
steingar said:
I really hate this. He's just this guy, you know. Four US presidents have been assassinated during their term of office. The United States is still here. The world did not stop turning. Its the job, not the dude.
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A big difference between many places around the world and here is that our top leaders, past, present, and future are expected to be protected so they can govern as they see fit within the bounds of the constitution and political pressures.

Also, a bit unlike other times in my lifetime I actually an assassination of the previous, current, or next POTUS may be the tipping point to a civil war of sorts or atleast wide spread riots. In that way it's kinda important.
 
Pi1otguy said:
A big difference between many places around the world and here is that our top leaders, past, present, and future are expected to be protected so they can govern as they see fit within the bounds of the constitution and political pressures.

Also, a bit unlike other times in my lifetime I actually an assassination of the previous, current, or next POTUS may be the tipping point to a civil war of sorts or atleast wide spread riots. In that way it's kinda important.
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Oh please. Lincoln was kacked just after a Civil war, and it didn't rile anyone up. We as a nation were as divided as we ever will be when JFK bit it, and there was no revolution (or no more than there would have been otherwise). These sort of events have a much more unifying effect, one of their very, very few good points.

Presidents were around in public for 150 years with the presence of handguns in private ownership and no metal detectors, bomb sniffing dogs, bulletproof anything. Yeah, some of them got deaded but the country moved on. We don't have to turn every city the guy visits upside down every time he visits. We don't need no stinkin' TFRs.
 
steingar said:
Oh please. Lincoln was kacked just after a Civil war, and it didn't rile anyone up. We as a nation were as divided as we ever will be when JFK bit it, and there was no revolution (or no more than there would have been otherwise). These sort of events have a much more unifying effect, one of their very, very few good points.
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Maybe not civil war but widespread riotting caused by tensions and suspicions of "the other side" bubbling over similar to the LA riots in the 90's except nationwide. The echo chamber of social networks, websites, or other mediums could cause a sort of feedback loop until enough people snap.

We don't need no stinkin' TFRs.
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Not that I'd ever expect the motorcade to include an Avenger, but how does one distinguish the random plane from the rogue plane without a TFR? They could be smaller of maybe impose a speed limit, but I understand their existence.
 
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Pi1otguy said:
steingar said:
Oh please. Lincoln was kacked just after a Civil war, and it didn't rile anyone up. We as a nation were as divided as we ever will be when JFK bit it, and there was no revolution (or no more than there would have been otherwise). These sort of events have a much more unifying effect, one of their very, very few good points.

Maybe not civil war but widespread riotting caused by tensions and suspicions of "the other side" bubbling over similar to the LA riots in the 90's except nationwide. The echo chamber of social networks, websites, or other mediums could cause a sort of feedback loop until enough people snap.


Not that I'd ever expect the motorcade to include an Avenger, but how does one distinguish the random plane from the rogue plane without a TFR? They could be smaller of maybe impose a speed limit, but I understand their existence.
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So would-be terrorist snatches a plane just as the Presidential motorcade rolls out into the open with the POTUS inside. And the terrorist is such a crackerjack pilot that he can hit the correct car in his suicidal dive bomb. Yah, right.

I know the SS has to keep the President safe from any contingency. I want to hear the plans for giant meteor impact and alien invasion.
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Pi1otguy said:
A big difference between many places around the world and here is that our top leaders, past, present, and future are expected to be protected so they can govern as they see fit within the bounds of the constitution and political pressures.
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Out of curiosity, what country do you believe doesn't have this same attitude? I can't think of a single modern country where the assassination of a top political figure wouldn't be taken very seriously...

Just because other countries don't make such a big deal out of it, it's not correct to assume that their leaders aren't as protected against the threats they face.
 
steingar said:
Pi1otguy said:
So would-be terrorist snatches a plane just as the Presidential motorcade rolls out into the open with the POTUS inside. And the terrorist is such a crackerjack pilot that he can hit the correct car in his suicidal dive bomb. Yah, right.

I know the SS has to keep the President safe from any contingency. I want to hear the plans for giant meteor impact and alien invasion.
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They didn't here :):):)

All joking aside...having the president- either party- in town is a real PIA. Schering Plough shut down early once because George Bush the first was in Bloomfield. Bill Clinton shut down Princeton making a bad commute worse. Vice President Al Gore shut down the New Jersey Turnpike during rush hour (from Newark to near Philadelphia) to visit Jon Bon Jovi (why didn't he take a helicopter?:rolleyes: That was the straw that lost my vote- shut down the whole state like that at that time). I had to deal with all three...

I grant reasonable security...but they really go overboard.

I'm glad POTUS rarely goes to NE...
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steingar said:
So would-be terrorist snatches a plane just as the Presidential motorcade rolls out into the open with the POTUS inside. And the terrorist is such a crackerjack pilot that he can hit the correct car in his suicidal dive bomb. Yah, right.
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In WWII Kamikaze pilots hit 14% of the time. And that's after losses to intercepts, thousands of rounds flung into the air, and ships manuevering as best they could. While not the easist thing to do, there is historical precident to suggest your scenario is possible with training though unlikely.

sba55 said:
Out of curiosity, what country do you believe doesn't have this same attitude? I can't think of a single modern country where the assassination of a top political figure wouldn't be taken very seriously...

Just because other countries don't make such a big deal out of it, it's not correct to assume that their leaders aren't as protected against the threats they face.
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That came across wrong. I don't even remember where I was going with that comment.

But given the obsession with safety we've decided to adopt as a country, this is only the natural progression of things. The other countries that "don't make such a big deal" just perceive a slightly different set of threats then what the SS, TSA, and other agencies perceive. For instance based on this article & TFRs we can conclude that the SS and local PD's safety concerns includes the normal guy with a gun stuff, plus mobile bycycle IEDs & kamikaze pilots. We can argue the practicalities of it, but given the assassination attempt on a Saudi offical by body packing a suicide bomb, it's clear that it's difficult for the SS or other agencies to rule out a method of attack in our risk aversion climate.
 
Pi1otguy said:
In WWII Kamikaze pilots hit 14% of the time. And that's after losses to intercepts, thousands of rounds flung into the air, and ships manuevering as best they could. While not the easist thing to do, there is historical precident to suggest your scenario is possible with training though unlikely.
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They hit aircraft carriers, which (if I'm not mistaken) are just a hair bigger than cars.
 
steingar said:
They hit aircraft carriers, which (if I'm not mistaken) are just a hair bigger than cars.
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True, a different scale but the same concept. Considering we essential train to touchdown softly on a given spot on most landings it's not a huge leap. Same concept, different scale, less AA.
 
Pi1otguy said:
True, a different scale but the same concept. Considering we essential train to touchdown softly on a given spot on most landings it's not a huge leap. Same concept, different scale, less AA.
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Nice to hear you were trained to hit something specific while in a steep descent at screaming speeds. That wasn't included in my CFI's curriculum.
 
steingar said:
All have about the same likelihood of actually harming the POTUS.
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You doubt that aliens could do it ?





The Kamikazes on 9/11 did a pretty good job hitting the buildings they intended to hit and the knucklehead in Austin did some damage to the IRS building. I wouldn't discount the possibility of a targeted attack using a GA aircraft. The 9/11 guys where rank amateurs, some disgruntled ex-pakistani air-force guy with a clapped out King Air would be more of a threat for a point-target. As mentioned above, 'fuzzy' information about the presidents whereabouts (e.g. being fashionably late or early to appointments) would do more for his safety than easily penetrated TFRs.
 
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weilke said:
You doubt that aliens could do it ?
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GA aircraft are more plentiful than aliens, but are less likely to actually do the job, even if one when through all the steps needed to use one. While aliens are somewhere between rare and nonexistent, they could probably do some major damage.
 
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