NYC Tourist Helicopters may be banned in New Jersey

[N918KT]

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2015/02/no_landing_zone_new_bill_seeks_to_ban_tourist_heli.html

I'm a little bit surprised that AOPA hadn't heard about this news or taken any action on this.

There is a new bill where tourist helicopters who give NYC helicopter tours may be banned from taking off or landing in NJ because of the noise it causes over the Hudson River and increasing air traffic around the Hudson River.

 

[RotorAndWing]

AOPA will rattle their sabres, but not much else.

They know the helicopter part of their membership is small, so they won't waste their time ( or money).

BTW, they will probably raise their dues to cover this "injustice".

 

[noobJohn]

And I thought I was cynical.

AOPA will rattle their sabres, but not much else.

They know the helicopter part of their membership is small, so they won't waste their time ( or money).

BTW, they will probably raise their dues to cover this "injustice".

 

[Lindberg]

From where does New Jersey get the power to regulate the destinations of interstate helicopters? I'm not sure how that is going to work out for them.

 

[TUPilot]

From where does New Jersey get the power to regulate the destinations of interstate helicopters? I'm not sure how that is going to work out for them.

They can't--but tourist helicopters are not interstate helicopters. I doubt there is anything they can do about the airspace, but there may be state business licenses, etc. that might full within their purview since the aircraft are not engaged in interstate commerce.

Of course, that is about the dumbest option they could go with: evict helicopters from NJ and loose tax revenue and push jobs to NY while doing nothing to reduce helicopter traffic overhead.

 

[Lindberg]

They can't--but tourist helicopters are not interstate helicopters. I doubt there is anything they can do about the airspace, but there may be state business licenses, etc. that might full within their purview since the aircraft are not engaged in interstate commerce.

Of course, that is about the dumbest option they could go with: evict helicopters from NJ and loose tax revenue and push jobs to NY while doing nothing to reduce helicopter traffic overhead.

I've never seen a helicopter that couldn't fly to another state. And aren't we specifically talking about tourist helicopters that fly over to NYC?

 

[Ghery]

They can't--but tourist helicopters are not interstate helicopters. I doubt there is anything they can do about the airspace, but there may be state business licenses, etc. that might full within their purview since the aircraft are not engaged in interstate commerce.

Of course, that is about the dumbest option they could go with: evict helicopters from NJ and loose tax revenue and push jobs to NY while doing nothing to reduce helicopter traffic overhead.

You are talking about politicians. No intelligence required, nor likely to be found.

 

[Tarheelpilot]

You are also talking about NJ where the general attitude of the government is the citizen has to have the governments permission to engage in an activity. Hell you are required to get government permission to occupy a residence after you buy it. I can't imagine living under the rule of a government that believes they have the authority to require a certificate of occupancy for a private residence. Unfortunately the citizens of NJ have given their state government that much authority in their daily lives. I will never goto NJ again. Many of my normal daily activities are felonies in NJ.

 

[Maciej]

You are also talking about NJ where the general attitude of the government is the citizen has to have the governments permission to engage in an activity. Hell you are required to get government permission to occupy a residence after you buy it. I can't imagine living under the rule of a government that believes they have the authority to require a certificate of occupancy for a private residence. Unfortunately the citizens of NJ have given their state government that much authority in their daily lives. I will never goto NJ again. Many of my normal daily activities are felonies in NJ.

You've pretty much summed up the reason why I'd love to move the hell out of here as soon as possible.

 

[Mike I]

This comes up every few years, whether it's from residents of NJ or of Brooklyn. The ERHC (Eastern Region Helicopter Council) is a pretty strong lobby, and I doubt this proposed legislation will stick. Last time this issue arose, a few years ago, the ERHC reached a deal with residents to standardize two tours for all sightseeing helicopters, and reduce traffic over certain residential areas (Tour Alpha and Tour Bravo).

I have no doubt this bill will fade away quickly.

 

[mtuomi]

I wish they would ban the helicopters from the Hudson SFRA. They make the whole area/unicom completely useless.

 

[TUPilot]

I've never seen a helicopter that couldn't fly to another state. And aren't we specifically talking about tourist helicopters that fly over to NYC?

Well most aircraft can fly between states, that doesn't mean they are engaged in interstate commerce. From what I've seen unless you are carrying people or cargo from one state to another (part 135/121/etc) you are pretty much stuck with business restrictions and taxes imposed by the state you are based in.

I wish they would ban the helicopters from the Hudson SFRA. They make the whole area/unicom completely useless.

I've only had a problem with them when circling the Statue of Liberty... they may clog up the frequency but they are engaged in business and have a right to be there. A different frequency to coordinate operations at various heliports might make sense though...

 

[Palmpilot]

Well most aircraft can fly between states, that doesn't mean they are engaged in interstate commerce. From what I've seen unless you are carrying people or cargo from one state to another (part 135/121/etc) you are pretty much stuck with business restrictions and taxes imposed by the state you are based in.

It would be pretty hard to provide New Jersey residents with sightseeing in New York State without transporting them across the state line.

 

[N918KT]

It would be pretty hard to provide New Jersey residents with sightseeing in New York State without transporting them across the state line.

Some helicopter tour companies base their helicopters at airports in NJ but the passengers do not depart from the NJ airports to fly to NYC for the tour.

 

[Lindberg]

Well most aircraft can fly between states, that doesn't mean they are engaged in interstate commerce.

As far as the commerce clause is concerned, I'm pretty sure it does.

 

[paflyer]

Reason #4592 why NJ sucks.

 

[iRyan]

Another reason why I hate this state.

 

[jordane93]

Reason #4592 why NJ sucks.

Dirty Jersey

 

[mtuomi]

I've only had a problem with them when circling the Statue of Liberty... they may clog up the frequency but they are engaged in business and have a right to be there. A different frequency to coordinate operations at various heliports might make sense though...

Yup, I would like to hear other aircraft communicating their altitude, location and direction, and not how many pax to pick up and how much fuel someone needs. When I lived in NYC, I did the corridor maybe 20 times, they are a major pain and render the frequency pretty much useless during busy times.

 

[Mike I]

Dera, most of the operators now communicate those details on company discrete frequencies, not on the CTAF. Also, the Wall St Heliport is on the East River CTAF, which is not frequently used by fixed-wingers. So, most of the "6TA, bring it to spot H, 4 pax" communications won't be heard during a SFRA transit.

Or, just fly the corridor in the Class B. Friendly controllers, less clutter, problem solved.

 

[igorek82]

The corridor is a zoo, Class B is the way to fly it.

Also, remember this

 

[timwinters]

Hell you are required to get government permission to occupy a residence after you buy it. I can't imagine living under the rule of a government that believes they have the authority to require a certificate of occupancy for a private residence.

This IMO (and as someone who's been involved in some aspect of commercial contracting for 30+ years) is a positive and not a negative.

About the only profession lower on the totem pole than attorneys and used car salesmen are residential contractors.

And, even they are scrupulous as compared to what a homeowner will Jury Rigg in his/her own home.

Most (almost all?) people don't have the expertise to evaluate a home. And having a pre-purchase inspection and C of O is quite similar to having a thorough pre-buy done before buying an airplane. I recently inspected a home for a friend in which the seller had made the final connection to his gas water heater and furnace with flexible water line. That could've been interesting.

Here in Missouri (in rural areas) there are no building codes at all. Over the past few months I've been watching a neighbor put up a nice sized garage on a 4" slab. That's it. A 4" slab. Not even thickened at the edges. No footings whatsoever. Our design frost line here is 18". Wanna take bets on how long that's going to last?

It's a double edged sword.

 

[MooneyDriver78]

Dera, most of the operators now communicate those details on company discrete frequencies, not on the CTAF. Also, the Wall St Heliport is on the East River CTAF, which is not frequently used by fixed-wingers. So, most of the "6TA, bring it to spot H, 4 pax" communications won't be heard during a SFRA transit.



Or, just fly the corridor in the Class B. Friendly controllers, less clutter, problem solved.

Yea, but a higher altitude, view is different from 800' and 1800'

 

[Tarheelpilot]

This IMO (and as someone who's been involved in some aspect of commercial contracting for 30+ years) is a positive and not a negative.

About the only profession lower on the totem pole than attorneys and used car salesmen are residential contractors.

And, even they are scrupulous as compared to what a homeowner will Jury Rigg in his/her own home.

Most (almost all?) people don't have the expertise to evaluate a home. And having a pre-purchase inspection and C of O is quite similar to having a thorough pre-buy done before buying an airplane. I recently inspected a home for a friend in which the seller had made the final connection to his gas water heater and furnace with flexible water line. That could've been interesting.

Here in Missouri (in rural areas) there are no building codes at all. Over the past few months I've been watching a neighbor put up a nice sized garage on a 4" slab. That's it. A 4" slab. Not even thickened at the edges. No footings whatsoever. Our design frost line here is 18". Wanna take bets on how long that's going to last?

It's a double edged sword.

Yes it is. Having lived on the east coast and now in the high plains where there, as you say, are no building codes..... I'll gladly pay for any mistakes I make to keep the government out of my daily life as much as i possibly can.

 

[Mike I]

Yea, but a higher altitude, view is different from 800' and 1800'

Sure, it's a different view. I've flown it in the Class B at 1500' many times, and it's still an impressive view any way you slice it. Either way, there are options. Duke it out with the uncontrolled traffic down low, or fly a little higher and with ATC. I'm still amazed we not only have these options, but that one can actually in that proximity to Manhattan, down low.

Fun fact... the World Trade Center itself is in Class E airspace below 1500', so in a helicopter (or in a plane, barring 91.119b) one could circle 1WTC or cross Manhattan at the Financial District without any ATC approval.

 

[Bob Noel]

Yes it is. Having lived on the east coast and now in the high plains where there, as you say, are no building codes..... I'll gladly pay for any mistakes I make to keep the government out of my daily life as much as i possibly can.

You mean the Government isn't the only means available for assuring that a house is habitable?



You mean the electrical inspector making sure that convenience outlets are 2' off the floor instead of 4' isn't absolutely essential for our well-being?

 

[StinkBug]

It would be pretty hard to provide New Jersey residents with sightseeing in New York State without transporting them across the state line.

If they are taking off from and landing in new Jersey and only doing an aerial tour without landing in new York I don't think that can be considered interstate travel, especially if they are staying over the water.