NPV of Regional Airline Earnings

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rt4388

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rt4388
So I'm working on choosing what regional I want to go to, and I've put together a quick table showing the NPV of regional airline earnings to help me decide. Obviously, there's more than just dollars being considered in the big picture, but this is a way for me to quantify the dollars. Figure someone might would benefit from this.
 

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I work for the airlines and have absolutely zero knowledge of the graph.
Thanks to the PP for pointing out one acronym, but I’m still lost on WACC.

Perhaps your post is better placed on airlinepilotforums.com
 
What number is being compared? It looks like you have reduced benefits down to a single number, but is that first year, average, total?
 
bflynn said:
What number is being compared? It looks like you have reduced benefits down to a single number, but is that first year, average, total?
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Total for August 2018 to Dec 2021, in present dollars.
 
WACC - Weighted Average Cost of Capital.

Not sure I'd pick an employer based on NPV. Also not a lot of difference from one to the other. I'd much more look at what happens to employees - do they get treated well, learn, get jobs in the majors etc. From a financial perspective, will they be around for as long as you'll work there would be what I would try and evaluate, NPV doesn't tell you that.
 
Hang 4 said:
WACC - Weighted Average Cost of Capital.

Not sure I'd pick an employer based on NPV. Also not a lot of difference from one to the other. I'd much more look at what happens to employees - do they get treated well, learn, get jobs in the majors etc. From a financial perspective, will they be around for as long as you'll work there would be what I would try and evaluate, NPV doesn't tell you that.
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What he said. In today’s environment you’ll probably be able to move on after a few years, if that’s your ultimate goal. Pick one that treats their employees decent.
 
First -- Thanks for the flashback to University days (Econ Major/ Business minor)

I think a better analysis would be how long people stay there and which main line they feed.
 
Hang 4 said:
Not sure I'd pick an employer based on NPV.
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Busflyer said:
What he said.
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Ravioli said:
I think a better analysis would be how long people stay there and which main line they feed.
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He clearly stated that he was simply providing just one data point of numerous that he's considering in the evaluation process and was sharing it because he thought others might be able to benefit from his data crunching:

rt4388 said:
Obviously, there's more than just dollars being considered in the big picture, but this is a way for me to quantify the dollars.
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<rolls eyes>

<shakes head>

<walks away>
 
All I was saying is NPV doesn't really provide any data on financial health. It's driving by looking in the rear view mirror. NPV is used to compare alternative investments like a new plant, not overall health of a company.
 
Let me distil it for you.....


Can I live on the wage I get from Airline X? Yes

Am I building time to get the the majors? Yes

Are they about to file bankruptcy? No

Take the job.

Invert any one answer.... go to another company.
 
Are you buying stock or looking for a job? I understand that you don’t want to go somewhere and not have a job down the road because they suck at business but after 20 years in this business I would honestly advise you to put this data point relatively low on your list for picking out a regional.

Also when you do finish your list, start interviewing from the bottom and work your way up.
 
Ravioli said:
First -- Thanks for the flashback to University days (Econ Major/ Business minor)

I think a better analysis would be how long people stay there and which main line they feed.
Click to expand...

Anyone? Anyone?
1C6963224-ss-110805-teachers-beuller.fit-760w.jpg
 
Hang 4 said:
All I was saying is NPV doesn't really provide any data on financial health. It's driving by looking in the rear view mirror. NPV is used to compare alternative investments like a new plant, not overall health of a company.
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Except he's looking at the NPV of what an FO's annual income is -- not the overall health of the company.
 
Lol it’s a regional airline job, it’s like the fast food job of aviation.

This is a job you work for a year, maybe two and get gone, don’t put too much thought into it.
 
Hacker said:
Except he's looking at the NPV of what an FO's annual income is -- not the overall health of the company.
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Missed that, good catch - that does make sense then.
 
James331 said:
Lol it’s a regional airline job, it’s like the fast food job of aviation.

This is a job you work for a year, maybe two and get gone, don’t put too much thought into it.
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While I agree with the sentiment, very few pilots are spending only "a year, maybe two" at the regionals enroute to the Nationals or Majors.

Progression is fast to the left seat, but limited by flying hours (especially in that first year when a couple months are going to be taken up by training). Getting hired on by a major probably won't happen the instant you hit the magic 1000 TPIC, either.
 
Hacker said:
While I agree with the sentiment, very few pilots are spending only "a year, maybe two" at the regionals enroute to the Nationals or Majors.

Progression is fast to the left seat, but limited by flying hours (especially in that first year when a couple months are going to be taken up by training). Getting hired on by a major probably won't happen the instant you hit the magic 1000 TPIC, either.
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If you’re at a regional for 3 years, you screwed up.

Sad thing is so many sacrifice their prime working for peanuts for the dream of hitting it big in the majors so they can live it up when they are 50-60.
 
Please tell me those dates are not a cumulative salary.
 
James331 said:
If you’re at a regional for 3 years, you screwed up.

Sad thing is so many sacrifice their prime working for peanuts for the dream of hitting it big in the majors so they can live it up when they are 50-60.
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I’m coming up on 3 years in April. I guess I screwed up:oops:
 
Your life, but you’ll blow through your 20s and 30s faster than you think, that’s the time you really will be able to make the most use of having money.
 
From what I’ve heard from friends, company climate is more important than the minor differences in pay.

If I got hired on to a regional with the right type of company, then I’d have no problem staying until retirement and forgo the major path. One can make a decent living as a captain in any of the regionals. The problem is finding the right company. Gotta friend who’s been researching this for over a year now because he’s trying to find the right company that suits his goals. Really, I think he’s gonna have to pay his dues wherever he goes and just put up with some suck early on.
 
James331 said:
Your life, but you’ll blow through your 20s and 30s faster than you think, that’s the time you really will be able to make the most use of having money.
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It could have been worse - he could have *really* screwed up and be stuck flying something like a Pilatus well into his 30s.

:p


And no, I don’t actually think like that. In fact, the comment is pretty stupid. But c’mon James - yours wasn’t much better. What’s the starting pay at your job? Not what you’re making now, but what a starting 1200 hour Pilatus pilot would make? How about the first three years? I bet there’s not a whole lot of daylight between that figure and what Jordan has made at his regional.

He’s trying to get to Delta, and he’s in a damned fine position to do so while he’s still in his 20s. He should have plenty of money to spend in his younger years!
 
If you aren't money hungry flying the regional jets is the way to go. They often fly out of smaller airports that are easier to access, you will progress quickly in seniority due to everyone skipping over to the majors at which point you will have a real nice quality of life. The flights are shorter which can be both good and bad depending on your personality.
 
kayoh190 said:
It could have been worse - he could have *really* screwed up and be stuck flying something like a Pilatus well into his 30s.

:p


And no, I don’t actually think like that. In fact, the comment is pretty stupid. But c’mon James - yours wasn’t much better. What’s the starting pay at your job? Not what you’re making now, but what a starting 1200 hour Pilatus pilot would make? How about the first three years? I bet there’s not a whole lot of daylight between that figure and what Jordan has made at his regional.

He’s trying to get to Delta, and he’s in a damned fine position to do so while he’s still in his 20s. He should have plenty of money to spend in his younger years!
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Are mins are more like 2500, with all the average OT and holidays and all, one week one one off, take home was initially a little shy of 90 gross.

And the PC-12 is a mighty beast!! ;)
 
Grum.Man said:
you will progress quickly in seniority due to everyone skipping over to the majors at which point you will have a real nice quality of life.
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The problem with the "regional lifer" idea is that the schedules and work rules at the nationals and majors -- not to mention the pay -- lead to notably better quality of life, even when compared to high-seniority regional guys. Again, it is the work rules that are most important to QOL concerns, and even the best regional (sounds funny to even say that) has more work for less pay compared to nearly all of the main-tier airlines.

There are plenty of former "regional lifers" who have finally seen the light in the last couple years of hiring and are much happier in their greener pastures, even with much lower relative seniority.
 
James331 said:
Are mins are more like 2500, with all the average OT and holidays and all, one week one one off, take home was initially a little shy of 90 gross.

And the PC-12 is a mighty beast!! ;)
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Exactly how do your flight/rest time rules work?

And what does take home 90 gross mean? That’s contradictory.
 
Kritchlow said:
Exactly how do your flight/rest time rules work?

And what does take home 90 gross mean? That’s contradictory.
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12hrs on 12 off

And gross income, like before the government pillages my paycheck
 
James331 said:
12hrs on 12 off

And gross income, like before the government pillages my paycheck
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12 on 12 off. So they CANNOT talk to you on your 12 off, even if you haven’t flown in the past 72 hours..??
 
James331 said:
Are mins are more like 2500, with all the average OT and holidays and all, one week one one off, take home was initially a little shy of 90 gross.

And the PC-12 is a mighty beast!! ;)
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90 is a solid figure for the PC-12, which I totally agree is a mighty beast! :) Never flown one, but always loved the plane.

You know me, I wasn’t picking on your job, and I never did the regional thing either. But the regionals *have* gotten better, and Jordan is likely north of 90 by now. At 24(?) he’s doing a hell of a lot better than I was at his age - I think I was tooling around in a Cheyenne II for $55K back in those days, which at the time felt like a lot of money!
 
I could work 12 on with no flying and I still require my 12 hr (min 10 hr) rest time period. Actual flying has nothing to do with duty period...only that I reported to work involving flying duty (Part 135. something). I’ve actually worked a whole hitch (7 shifts in a row) with no flying and every rest period in between is still sacred. This ain’t Russia, I gots rights!
 
Kritchlow said:
12 on 12 off. So they CANNOT talk to you on your 12 off, even if you haven’t flown in the past 72 hours..??
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No one talks me into anything

I can extend to 14, if I can not get back to base in 14 that’s that, plus 10hrs rest.

Still home every night, and my time off is my time, I can cover and I can choose not to, my call
 
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James331 said:
No one talks me into anything

I can extend to 14, if I can not get back to base in 14 that’s that, plus 10hrs rest.

Still home every night, and my time off is my time, I can cover and I can choose not to, my call
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Ahh... one of those as I suspected. They can interrupt rest and if you accept, you are illegal.
 
Kritchlow said:
Ahh... one of those as I suspected. They can interrupt rest and if you accept, you are illegal.
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Huh?

When I punch out after my shift I’m out, full stop.
 
James331 said:
Huh?

When I punch out after my shift I’m out, full stop.
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I think there’s some sort of rumor that we’re on call after we clock out. Like a mech or something??? Not sure where it comes from. Obviously can’t happen.

Heck, even my week off is priority. If I don’t want to come in to cover, I don’t come in. They’ll always find someone else that needs the extra cash.
 
Jordane is gonna have a bitchin' career. Met a fella the other day who was 25 and flying for Southwest. Nuts.

To the OP - thanks for posting. Have no idea what any of it means, but I'm sure its useful to someone. There are a lot of jerks on here.
 
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