NPV of Regional Airline Earnings

Velocity173 said:
From what I’ve heard from friends, company climate is more important than the minor differences in pay.

If I got hired on to a regional with the right type of company, then I’d have no problem staying until retirement and forgo the major path. One can make a decent living as a captain in any of the regionals. The problem is finding the right company. Gotta friend who’s been researching this for over a year now because he’s trying to find the right company that suits his goals. Really, I think he’s gonna have to pay his dues wherever he goes and just put up with some suck early on.
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The problem with making a career out of the regionals is most have come and gone and you won’t be able to make a career out of them. 5 years ago, my company was bankrupt and paying $18K first year. No one would have thought it would be one of the top regionals to be at with the highest paid regional pilots. The problem is everything is good and that’s making guys (including me) comfortable. I’m making 100K after 2.5 years at the company, live in base, and get a minimum of 12 (all weekends off) days off a month. I have to stop being lazy though and update my apps because this ride won’t last forever!
 
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Not to mention that the opposite has also been true: the regionals that 5 years ago were the "go-to" airlines are in the crapper right now (here's lookin' at you, ExpressJet, Horizon, and Compass).

It is all a big cycle.
 
Hacker said:
Not to mention that the opposite has also been true: the regionals that 5 years ago were the "go-to" airlines are in the crapper right now (here's lookin' at you, ExpressJet, Horizon, and Compass).

It is all a big cycle.
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Compass? Compass is one of the better ones from what I have seen.
 
James331 said:
Are mins are more like 2500, with all the average OT and holidays and all, one week one one off, take home was initially a little shy of 90 gross.

And the PC-12 is a mighty beast!! ;)
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I work 2-3 days a week, no overnights, no weekends, most of the days I work I spend home (avg. 3-4 hours of flying per working day). And I make about the same as you.

Your gig sounds pretty horrible.
 
CC268 said:
Compass? Compass is one of the better ones from what I have seen.
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Used to be, but ever since it was bought by Trans States Holdings a few years ago it has been on a steady decline with respect to all the factors that make a regional a less-than-excellent place to work.
 
Mtuomi in with the punchessss damn
 
Hacker said:
Used to be, but ever since it was bought by Trans States Holdings a few years ago it has been on a steady decline with respect to all the factors that make a regional a less-than-excellent place to work.
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Interesting. I know several people at Compass and they have had good things to say. I like that they have west coast bases. Most regionals your ending up in Detroit, Chicago, etc.

The best regional by far is Mesa Airlines ;)
 
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CC268 said:
Interesting. I know several people at Compass and they have had good things to say. I like that they have west coast bases. Most regionals your ending up in Detroit, Chicago, etc
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I flew for Compass a couple years ago after getting out of the military, and even during that time I could see a steady decline in how the airplanes were maintained, the construction of schedules, general treatment from management (especially the various Chief Pilots in the system), etc.

CC268 said:
The best regional by far is Mesa Airlines ;)
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Without question.

However, the best at *what*? :)
 
Hacker said:
I flew for Compass a couple years ago after getting out of the military, and even during that time I could see a steady decline in how the airplanes were maintained, the construction of schedules, general treatment from management (especially the various Chief Pilots in the system), etc.



Without question.

However, the best at *what*? :)
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Interesting. What would say are the better ones right now?
 
James331 said:
Huh?

When I punch out after my shift I’m out, full stop.
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Velocity173 said:
I think there’s some sort of rumor that we’re on call after we clock out. Like a mech or something??? Not sure where it comes from. Obviously can’t happen.

Heck, even my week off is priority. If I don’t want to come in to cover, I don’t come in. They’ll always find someone else that needs the extra cash.
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Well, I should not assume that either of your outfits do things incorrectly, but many (most?) do.
Many charter type operators do not have a defined rest period, but rather look back and if you haven’t flown they consider that rest.
If you don’t fly for a week the company should call you everyday (or pre defined) and tell you when you go into rest and when you go on duty.
Perhaps I’m not making myself clear.
That said, I do apologize for making assumptions about your respective companies.
 
Kritchlow said:
Well, I should not assume that either of your outfits do things incorrectly, but many (most?) do.
Many charter type operators do not have a defined rest period, but rather look back and if you haven’t flown they consider that rest.
If you don’t fly for a week the company should call you everyday (or pre defined) and tell you when you go into rest and when you go on duty.
Perhaps I’m not making myself clear.
That said, I do apologize for making assumptions about your respective companies.
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No problem, it’s just that I’ve heard that before and was wondering where it came from. I’m thinking maybe back in the day, some of these “fly by night” EMS companies did interpret duty day differently. I’m sure they interpreted rest period differently as well. All in the hopes of cutting corners and saving money.

Can’t speak to how some of these smaller companies operate now a days. All I can tell you that our company, which recently became the largest independent air ambulance provider in the world, is very stringent on following 135 duty / rest rules. At least from the most conservative interpretation that the FAA has come out with.
 
Velocity173 said:
No problem, it’s just that I’ve heard that before and was wondering where it came from. I’m thinking maybe back in the day, some of these “fly by night” EMS companies did interpret duty day differently. I’m sure they interpreted rest period differently as well. All in the hopes of cutting corners and saving money.

Can’t speak to how some of these smaller companies operate now a days. All I can tell you that our company, which recently became the largest independent air ambulance provider in the world, is very stringent on following 135 duty / rest rules. At least from the most conservative interpretation that the FAA has come out with.
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The FAA is very clear - rest has to be defined in advance. The old days of "we didn't call you so that was your rest" are over. FAA will go full Ezekiel 25:17 on shops that try to pull crap like that.
 
Go to a wholly owned with a FLOW! :)

Apply outside of it of course, but its a nice insurance to keep in your back pocket..
 
mtuomi said:
If you'd be stuck in a crappy job like his with zero potential career progression, you would be bitter too.
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Ouch,

I’d be butt hurt my the heated seats in my new caddy help soothe ;)
 
The stick measuring contest has begun.

200w.gif
 
jordane93 said:
Endeavor, PSA, Piedmont, Envoy, Republic, Skywest. I think these will be the only ones around in a few years.
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Just sucks cause a lot of them don’t have any west coast bases. Would have to move east somewhere. Skywest has long upgrade times.
 
jordane93 said:
I don’t think Skywest has long upgrade times. @LDJones what’s the word?
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Seem to recall Jones upgraded within 2 years. I have a buddy at Skywest who upgraded around the 18 month point. Could have been earlier.

Seems the ones who have longer upgrade times are the ones that don’t have flow through. Like Air Wis.
 
jordane93 said:
I don’t think Skywest has long upgrade times. @LDJones what’s the word?
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Yea maybe it’s changed. Although I’d be more inclined to go with Endeavor? (I think endevor is what I’m thinking of) As they have a base out of DFW. Wouldn’t mind moving there. I’d like to avoid commuting to reserve in Detroit lol
 
CC268 said:
Yea maybe it’s changed. Although I’d be more inclined to go with Endeavor? (I think endevor is what I’m thinking of) As they have a base out of DFW. Wouldn’t mind moving there. I’d like to avoid commuting to reserve in Detroit lol
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You’re probably thinking of Envoy. Endeavor doesn’t have a DFW base. I think Skywest has a DFW base as well or they’re opening one soon.
 
jordane93 said:
You’re probably thinking of Envoy. Endeavor doesn’t have a DFW base. I think Skywest has a DFW base as well or they’re opening one soon.
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Oh okay yea must have been envoy. Idk Compass is just so convenient for someone in the Southwest like me. But I’m a ways out from making that choice anyways. We will see when I get closer to that time.
 
CC268 said:
Oh okay yea must have been envoy. Idk Compass is just so convenient for someone in the Southwest like me. But I’m a ways out from making that choice anyways. We will see when I get closer to that time.
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And, the reality is, it will probably be a different landscape a year from now, too. The industry, and especially the fee-for-departure corner of it, is always in flux. So, as you approach the time to make the decision about where you would like to fly, hit the forums and read, read, read!
 
Hacker said:
And, the reality is, it will probably be a different landscape a year from now, too. The industry, and especially the fee-for-departure corner of it, is always in flux. So, as you approach the time to make the decision about where you would like to fly, hit the forums and read, read, read!
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Exactly! I will definitely do that. I can join all my depressed friends over on APC!
 
Tarheelpilot said:
Picking which airline has a lot in common with gambling at the horse track.
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My airline career consisted of 3 airlines, one cargo and two passenger. I thought the first one would last but 4 years later it folded. At least I got 3000 hours of turbine time with 1000 of that as captain. The next was cargo and it lasted 6 months. After a year of part time charter and check runs I got on with another pax airline and flew to retirement. In this industry you never know who will last, merge with another, get furloughed, etc.
 
CC268 said:
Just sucks cause a lot of them don’t have any west coast bases. Would have to move east somewhere. Skywest has long upgrade times.
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SkyWest is great if you don't care about your paycheck. Their "contract" is godawful. $37/hr, tiny per diem, 1% raise per year, dual occupancy hotels during training etc.
It's great if you can survive with that pay, and live in DTW or MSP. Their west coast bases are very senior, don't expect to see a line as captain in 7-8 years.

Go to Compass. They seem to be pretty happy.
Sorry. I'll turn off my APC mode.
 
mtuomi said:
SkyWest is great if you don't care about your paycheck. Their "contract" is godawful. $37/hr, tiny per diem, 1% raise per year, dual occupancy hotels during training etc.
It's great if you can survive with that pay, and live in DTW or MSP. Their west coast bases are very senior, don't expect to see a line as captain in 7-8 years.

Go to Compass. They seem to be pretty happy.
Sorry. I'll turn off my APC mode.
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If I was ready to go to the regionals right now I’d go to Compass honestly. But I’m a ways out so who knows what it will be then.
 
CC268 said:
If I was ready to go to the regionals right now I’d go to Compass honestly. But I’m a ways out so who knows what it will be then.
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Without getting too APC, your danger at Compass is that the company owns none of the metal it flies. The Delta Connection jets are owned by Delta and the American Eagle jets are owned by American.

Given how frequently aircraft are shifted between regional partners by the mainline masters, this could be a real problem for pilots on the Compass seniority list over the next 5 years. For example, about 1/3 of the Compass fleet are the new-ish American Eagle 175 EWT jets, and that contract ends in 2019. You can imagine what would happen if 1/3 of a company's flying went away basically overnight.

This is probably why there is a lot of speculation about TSH selling Compass to someone else (like Republic).
 
Hacker said:
Without getting too APC, your danger at Compass is that the company owns none of the metal it flies. The Delta Connection jets are owned by Delta and the American Eagle jets are owned by American.

Given how frequently aircraft are shifted between regional partners by the mainline masters, this could be a real problem for pilots on the Compass seniority list over the next 5 years. For example, about 1/3 of the Compass fleet are the new-ish American Eagle 175 EWT jets, and that contract ends in 2019. You can imagine what would happen if 1/3 of a company's flying went away basically overnight.

This is probably why there is a lot of speculation about TSH selling Compass to someone else (like Republic).
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Though, given the “pilot shortage” I keep hearing about, if you’re current and qualified on a E175 or similar it shouldn’t be too hard to find a job. It’s good to remember though, anyone who erroneously thinks they’ll spend a year to make captain and Shazam, off to the majors should ask themselves why they think they should be hired before any of the other 10,000 qualified and experienced pilots at the regionals. I agree with the poster who suggested go to the regional with a flow to mainline, because even if you aren’t the 90-day wonder you thought you were going to be, you’ll still be on your way. By the way, good luck.
 
j1b3h0 said:
if you’re current and qualified on a E175 or similar it shouldn’t be too hard to find a job.
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While true, that's not really the point.

In the current hiring environment, any applicant with 1500 hours and without a murder conviction has essentially their pick of place to work. Why even bother selecting one that has a higher likelihood of requiring a later involuntary lateral transfer?

It isn't a big secret that Compass' star is falling while others are rising, and there are many external and internal indicators of this for someone who is paying attention to the fee-for-departure segment of the industry.

There are lots of reasons to pick a regional, but intentionally boarding what most perceive to be a ship that is taking on water is probably not the smartest choice for someone who is going to do more than just a touch-and-go at the company.

Again, I say that as someone who used to be on the seniority list and greatly enjoyed my time there, but it isn't the same company today it was pre-2014/2015.
 
Hacker said:
In the current hiring environment, any applicant with 1500 hours and without a murder conviction has essentially their pick of place to work. Why even bother selecting one that has a higher likelihood of requiring a later involuntary lateral transfer?
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...and for those with one, there's always Mesa.
 
Speaking of regionals. Rotor To Airline Group just had their convention in SAV. They were hoping for around 100 helo dudes to show but about 600 registered! All my old buds got conditional job offers from multiple companies.
 
James331 said:
If you’re at a regional for 3 years, you screwed up.

Sad thing is so many sacrifice their prime working for peanuts for the dream of hitting it big in the majors so they can live it up when they are 50-60.
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24 years at a regional, and no, I didn’t screw up. Sure the first 3 years were tight money wise, but once I upgraded to Captain that wasn’t a problem. Six figure income James for many years, but I guess I screwed up. You know nothing about 121 or the regionals, so why do you try to come across as though you’re in the know? You don’t know chet, and those of us who have been there, or currently there, will call out your ignorance.
 
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mscard88 said:
24 years at a regional, and no, I didn’t screw up. Sure the first 3 years were tight money wise, but once I upgraded to Captain that wasn’t a problem. Six figure income James for many years, but I guess I screwed up. You know nothing about 121 or the regionals, so why do you try to come across as though you’re in the know? You don’t know chet, and those of us who have been there, or currently there, will call out your ignorance.
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Pilots talk, I listen to some PIREPS, why on earth not go to a major in that time? But I know other guys who stay at stepping stone jobs
 
James331 said:
Pilots talk, I listen to some PIREPS, why on earth not go to a major in that time? But I know other guys who stay at stepping stone jobs
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Ultra-senior guy at a regional can have pretty incredible QoL and make plenty of money. Check airmen/instructors easily break 200k. Some are close to 350k but they don't have much time off.

And also - majors aren't just a "go there" thing. Some 100% qualified people never get the call.
 
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