Not good (FL crash)

Never good when an emergency landing takes out innocent people,who have no idea what's coming. Very sad.
 
We, as pilots, accept the risk of flying. People walking on a beach do not. The pilot in question had no business landing on that beach.

I hope he likes lawsuits, he just bought himself one.
 
This is a great reminder for me in case of an emergency landing near a beach to ditch further out. Too many accidents around here lately in SWFL!
 
Question from a newby , if at the last minute the pilot seen people on the beach wouldn't you think he would have turned and took his chances with landing the water, even if he flipped over would that be a better option? By looking at the plane in the pictures it looked like he may have had flaps down and by the looks of the minimal damage (considering) it seems that he must have had his air speed down for a manageable landing - as a newby I know I left alot of scenarios and thoughts out but I hate the thought of taking out anyone other then myself in the event of an emergency

Please don't "bust my balls" on the stupid question as I realize I should know this but evidently I don't have a clear answer in my head and it's something I would like to clarify for my own mind so if anything was to ever happen to myself in the future I can learn from others
 
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Most beaches have tons of room to stuff an airplane especially if you are OK with the airplane being a write off. Most likely explanation is perception reduced by fear and he never saw them even though in theory a pilot should.
 
FormerHangie said:
We, as pilots, accept the risk of flying. People walking on a beach do not. The pilot in question had no business landing on that beach.

I hope he likes lawsuits, he just bought himself one.
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If the PIC was the registered owner of the aircraft, he was also flying without a valid medical (presuming the database is up-to-date).
 
As stated before, those on the beach should not suffer because of another mans (or woman's) decision to fly. I don't know all the circumstances, but it appears he very selfishly chose the best spot for HIM and his passenger and never gave anyone else a second thought. One of my many instructors said about ditching at night " If you have a failure at night, the best place to ditch is in the water, it's not their faults (people on the ground) that you are flying and your engine stops working, they should not have to pay for your mistakes"
 
As pilots we all know what we are SUPPOSED to do but until the real life situation arises, we can only hope that we do the right thing.
 
201Driver said:
As pilots we all know what we are SUPPOSED to do but until the real life situation arises, we can only hope that we do the right thing.
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True, but you're scanning for a good place to put it down, you see a beach.... mid summer in Florida, I think anyone who has a pulse would understand that humans would be an issue... Just like if you have an emergency landing in a field you'll be looking for barbedwire fences....
 
FormerHangie said:
We, as pilots, accept the risk of flying. People walking on a beach do not. The pilot in question had no business landing on that beach.

I hope he likes lawsuits, he just bought himself one.
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Yeah, I don't get it. He seems to have gotten it down in a very controllable state. Why land on the beach instead of 50 feet into the water? open the door, get ready to click off the seat belt, try to flare it on the water, and even if you flip, you'll be alright. Sure, the plane is a goner, but who cares at that point? unless the water was full of people too? anyone knows?
 
I'm not sure, but it could have been it looked good from altitude and he didn't see the people till he was committed. Or the people could have moved into the patch of the aircraft.
 
What a tragedy.
I hope that Father had a lot of life insurance to take care of his family and his daughters medical bills. Because a lot of people on this board don't think the pilot should hav been required to have any.
 
onwards said:
Yeah, I don't get it. He seems to have gotten it down in a very controllable state. Why land on the beach instead of 50 feet into the water? open the door, get ready to click off the seat belt, try to flare it on the water, and even if you flip, you'll be alright. Sure, the plane is a goner, but who cares at that point? unless the water was full of people too? anyone knows?
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Something to consider:

People on walking on the beach can get out of the way of the aircraft in distress much much quicker than anyone swimming 50' offshore.

Perhaps the pilot was hoping that people on the beach would notice and yell to other people to get out of the way.
 
thehulk06 said:
As stated before, those on the beach should not suffer because of another mans (or woman's) decision to fly. I don't know all the circumstances, but it appears he very selfishly chose the best spot for HIM and his passenger and never gave anyone else a second thought. One of my many instructors said about ditching at night " If you have a failure at night, the best place to ditch is in the water, it's not their faults (people on the ground) that you are flying and your engine stops working, they should not have to pay for your mistakes"
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+1..................:thumbsup:
 
thehulk06 said:
As stated before, those on the beach should not suffer because of another mans (or woman's) decision to fly. I don't know all the circumstances, but it appears he very selfishly chose the best spot for HIM and his passenger and never gave anyone else a second thought. One of my many instructors said about ditching at night " If you have a failure at night, the best place to ditch is in the water, it's not their faults (people on the ground) that you are flying and your engine stops working, they should not have to pay for your mistakes"
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You ever have an engine failure?

Given the options I would not put a plane down in the water, unless the only other option was in tall trees.

RIP
 
thehulk06 said:
As stated before, those on the beach should not suffer because of another mans (or woman's) decision to fly. I don't know all the circumstances, but it appears he very selfishly chose the best spot for HIM and his passenger and never gave anyone else a second thought. One of my many instructors said about ditching at night " If you have a failure at night, the best place to ditch is in the water, it's not their faults (people on the ground) that you are flying and your engine stops working, they should not have to pay for your mistakes"
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I don't think that is a very fair conclusion to jump to. Of course it could be true, but we have no idea what was going on in his mind at the time, or what was consuming is attention. But aside from the highlighted part, I do agree with the rest of your post.
 
James331 said:
You ever have an engine failure?

Given the options I would not put a plane down in the water, unless the only other option was in tall trees.

RIP
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I thought the same, but a 10 year veteran AirForce aerospace physiologist (30 years total service) says the trees are statistically more survivable than water ditching.
 
Bob Noel said:
Something to consider:

People on walking on the beach can get out of the way of the aircraft in distress much much quicker than anyone swimming 50' offshore.

Perhaps the pilot was hoping that people on the beach would notice and yell to other people to get out of the way.
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People on a beach have no expectation of an airplane attempting to make a forced landing there. If the victims had their backs to the airplane, I doubt they'd hear it coming over the sound of the surf, and would never know that they needed to run for their lives.
 
James331 said:
You ever have an engine failure?

Given the options I would not put a plane down in the water, unless the only other option was in tall trees.

RIP
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You would prefer to put it down on a beach that you would expect to have people on it?
 
FormerHangie said:
People on a beach have no expectation of an airplane attempting to make a forced landing there. If the victims had their backs to the airplane, I doubt they'd hear it coming over the sound of the surf, and would never know that they needed to run for their lives.
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This. People on the ground have no duty to move out of the way of crashing airplanes.
 
FormerHangie said:
People on a beach have no expectation of an airplane attempting to make a forced landing there. If the victims had their backs to the airplane, I doubt they'd hear it coming over the sound of the surf, and would never know that they needed to run for their lives.
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Just as a point of discussion, wouldn't this logic also apply to setting it down on a highway? If you have an engine out and no airport around should you choose a "safe" place and just nose dive there?

When we had to put down on a highway one time there were power lines and a forest to the right of the road and a drainage ditch between the opposing lanes with culverts ever few hundred feet and a bridge ahead. We aimed for the road, but just before flare, a little red truck, apparently completely oblivious to us coming down over top of him emerged from under us. We flared and turned and stalled into the drainage ditch and just before hitting the culvert we pulled up onto the oncoming traffic on the other side. The oncoming traffic saw us and they all pulled off the side and we went between them until we could pull off the side and the only casualty (other than a $33k engine swap) was a speed limit sign and a small ding in our wing.

To this day I still don't know if we did the right thing because we were lucky enough to survive without killing anyone else either. I say "we" because my wife was PIC.
 
Turningfinal said:
If the PIC was the registered owner of the aircraft, he was also flying without a valid medical (presuming the database is up-to-date).
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The PIC has been identified in news stories now. It wasn't the registered owner of the plane. He passed a third class medical in February 2013.
 
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I think it is unfair to pass such judgement on the pilot. Had the father and daughter been 10 feet in another direction everyone would be praising him for having an emergency and walking away.

To play devils advocate, this was probably one of the most stressful situations of this pilot' life. We can assume this pilot has never been through any sort of dunker training. Having been through that training myself, I can say that 2 older gentlemen upside down in the ocean in an airplane with only 1 door is not a very good scenario. Maybe they didn't see the people on the beach in their panic, and chose that nice beach instead of almost certain death. They would have had to have crashed at least 100 ft or more in the ocean to avoid slow moving swimmers. I think it would be a similar to landing on a road instead of choosing to stall it in to a small open field knowing the outcome will be bad, just to avoid the possibility of anyone being effected.
 
I live on Siesta Key (Sarasota) and fly out of the area often. This is sad to hear.
 
Making excuses for the pilot is not making GA look good or responsible. Pilots want everyone to be wired up with ADS-B so they don't get hurt and at the same time be able to run down pedestrians when it suits them. The old guys in the plane drowning is fine they chose to fly. Killing some guy walking on the beach with his daughter is not fine.
 
FormerHangie said:
We, as pilots, accept the risk of flying. People walking on a beach do not. The pilot in question had no business landing on that beach.

I hope he likes lawsuits, he just bought himself one.
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The victims on the ground are innocent, but still remember, everyone takes risk just walking on a sidewalk, riding a bicycle on the side of a road, or walking past a house with pit bulls in the yard.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Making excuses for the pilot is not making GA look good or responsible. Pilots want everyone to be wired up with ADS-B so they don't get hurt and at the same time be able to run down pedestrians when it suits them. The old guys in the plane drowning is fine they chose to fly. Killing some guy walking on the beach with his daughter is not fine.
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Agreed. Don't put other people at risk because you're joy riding in a plane. Guess those in the plane felt entitled to that beach regardless of who was there.
 
JOhnH said:
Just as a point of discussion, wouldn't this logic also apply to setting it down on a highway? If you have an engine out and no airport around should you choose a "safe" place and just nose dive there?

When we had to put down on a highway one time there were power lines and a forest to the right of the road and a drainage ditch between the opposing lanes with culverts ever few hundred feet and a bridge ahead. We aimed for the road, but just before flare, a little red truck, apparently completely oblivious to us coming down over top of him emerged from under us. We flared and turned and stalled into the drainage ditch and just before hitting the culvert we pulled up onto the oncoming traffic on the other side. The oncoming traffic saw us and they all pulled off the side and we went between them until we could pull off the side and the only casualty (other than a $33k engine swap) was a speed limit sign and a small ding in our wing.

To this day I still don't know if we did the right thing because we were lucky enough to survive without killing anyone else either. I say "we" because my wife was PIC.
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If you set down on a highway, you have a reasonable expectation that those people on the ground were riding in cars, and if you were involved in a crash with one of them that they'd survive, probably with minor injuries at most. Your wife also diverted when she saw the truck to avoid involving him in the crash. The pilot in this case could have ditched offshore rather than landing on a beach that he would have reasonably expected to have people on it.
 
CTLSi said:
The victims on the ground are innocent, but still remember, everyone takes risk just walking on a sidewalk, riding a bicycle on the side of a road, or walking past a house with pit bulls in the yard.
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Calculated risks, when you go to a beach you calculate you might get eaten by a shark or drown.... hell even catch fire from some bonfire. But there's absolutely no reason you should have to be prepared to dive for your life under a plane coming in for an emergency landing on the beach. I'd sue there whole family, hopefully they don't have any possessions left after this.
 
Direct C51 said:
I think it is unfair to pass such judgement on the pilot. Had the father and daughter been 10 feet in another direction everyone would be praising him for having an emergency and walking away.

To play devils advocate, this was probably one of the most stressful situations of this pilot' life. We can assume this pilot has never been through any sort of dunker training. Having been through that training myself, I can say that 2 older gentlemen upside down in the ocean in an airplane with only 1 door is not a very good scenario. Maybe they didn't see the people on the beach in their panic, and chose that nice beach instead of almost certain death. They would have had to have crashed at least 100 ft or more in the ocean to avoid slow moving swimmers. I think it would be a similar to landing on a road instead of choosing to stall it in to a small open field knowing the outcome will be bad, just to avoid the possibility of anyone being effected.
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On any summer day, it is reasonable to expect a beach to have beachgoers, who are completely unprotected and will most likely be killed or severely injured in a collision with an airplane. If the pilot can't be trusted to make a decision to not involve the general public in the risk of private aviation, then the general public can also reasonably restrict private aviation to nonpopulated areas.

As the saying goes, there is no freedom without responsibility.
 
This would have been a good time to have a horn. I have a friend with one in his RV-7A. It would not help much with automobiles, but great for a golf course, beach or parking lot landings.
 
RV10flyer said:
This would have been a good time to have a horn. I have a friend with one in his RV-7A. It would not help much with automobiles, but great for a golf course, beach or parking lot landings.
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Again not pedestrians responsibility to move for crashing airplanes. The responsibility is 100% on pilots not to run pedestrians over.
 
thehulk06 said:
Calculated risks, when you go to a beach you calculate you might get eaten by a shark or drown.... hell even catch fire from some bonfire. But there's absolutely no reason you should have to be prepared to dive for your life under a plane coming in for an emergency landing on the beach. I'd sue there whole family, hopefully they don't have any possessions left after this.
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I lean in this direction also. This tragic scenario can get armchair quarterbacked any number of ways, but bottom line... that pilot landing on the beach resulted in him killing a father, and injuring a child. If he got sued into oblivion and every remaining dollar of his went to the dead father's family, I'd have no problem with it.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Again not pedestrians responsibility to move for crashing airplanes. The responsibility is 100% on pilots not to run pedestrians over.
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I either misunderstood you or that is the dumbest thing I have heard lately.
If I am landing on a beach and blowing an air horn to alert someone in my path, are you saying they have no responsibility to step out of the way?
 
ClimbnSink said:
Again not pedestrians responsibility to move for crashing airplanes. The responsibility is 100% on pilots not to run pedestrians over.
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I either misunderstood you or that is the dumbest thing I have heard lately.
If I am emergency landing on a beach and blowing an air horn to alert someone in my path, are you saying they have no responsibility to step out of the way?
 
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