Northern Arizona aircraft rentals?

[MAKG1]

I'm headed out to Flagstaff, AZ in a bit over a week. I'd like to find a rental adequate for a Grand Canyon overflight. I called Fred Gibbs at Wiseman, and he said they only have a 172M (not enough at that altitude for what I need -- I can load the family in at sea level in a 172M, but it's real close to max gross), and they prohibit overflights.

It appears that there is an R182 at Prescott, which would be better, but that's a long drive....and while I've flown a 182Q and 177RG, I haven't flown an R182. It ought to have the performance I need, though. I do have the necessary high performance and complex endorsements.

This is, of course, assuming weather is adequate. That has been a problem recently around there.

Am I missing anything? Is there a better target further west? I'll be driving in from Needles.

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

Did you end up finding anything. I just saw this now and quite frankly, there aren't a whole lot of options in Northern AZ as far as I've found

 

[MAKG1]

Nope. Prescott appears best, but the family won't drive 3 hours round trip for a 2 hour flight.

 

[BrianR]

Just dug up this thread, as I had the same question. My GF and I are planning an AZ trip in March or April, probably flying on the airlines to PHX. She wants to go to Flagstaff, as she used to live there, as well as visit family in southern AZ. I've looked for rentals in Tucson on previous trips, but never found anything. This will be the first time I've been in northern AZ.

Looks like Open Airplane has an operator at Scottsdale, Sawyer Aviation, offering a 172S and a 172SP (and, an SR22, which I can't afford and don't have the time for Cirrus training).

But I'm not sure how good of an idea it would be to plan to take a 172 into Flagstaff with two adults and a six year old, not having flown ever in that part of the country. I suppose in March or April, DA might not be a huge consideration, but still...

 

[MAKG1]

Gotta do it in the morning only.

But there is a 172M for rent there.

A 172S is a 172SP. They are fat pigs. They won't do any better than the M or Ns. You will definitely want partial fuel, calm winds, and at least a few high altitude takeoffs with an instructor. Insist on 200 lb under max gross, at least. The lighter the better.

I'd be much more comfortable in a 172XP or 177 at a minimum, and preferably a 182. A CS prop really helps.

If you've never made a high altitude takeoff, this is a no-go without leaving at least one passenger behind and taking an instructor. Using sea level procedures doesn't work.

DA was 8000 feet when I was there in butt-cold weather.

In good weather, pilotage from Phoenix will be trivial. There is an interstate to follow the whole way.

 

[Fearless Tower]

But I'm not sure how good of an idea it would be to plan to take a 172 into Flagstaff with two adults and a six year old, not having flown ever in that part of the country. I suppose in March or April, DA might not be a huge consideration, but still...

You'll obviously want to monitor the wx, but two adults and a small child should be doable in March/April. You'll probably want less than full fuel, but shouldn't be extreme unless you have a ton of baggage.

If temps get up there, then like Makg1 said, look at early morning flying, but that usually isn't a huge issue the time of year you are talking about.

Do the calculations for worst case (temp and weight) and make sure you have enough margin you are comfortable with.

 

[MAKG1]

Please keep in mind that density altitude is really important, but it's not the only factor.

If you look at a 172N's performance table, density altitude alone will let you take off at 7000 feet up to about 90 deg at max gross. Flagstaff doesn't generally get that hot even in August. You'll need 4000 feet of runway to do this, which will look scary as heck if you were expecting 750 feet.

But I wouldn't do that at Flagstaff, especially in the afternoon, without some margin. The wind becomes a huge factor. Because of the density altitude, you can't do much about sinking air aside from get out of it.

 

[BrianR]

I'd be much more comfortable in a 172XP or 177 at a minimum, and preferably a 182. A CS prop really helps.

If you've never made a high altitude takeoff, this is a no-go without leaving at least one passenger behind and taking an instructor. Using sea level procedures doesn't work.

DA was 8000 feet when I was there in butt-cold weather.

In good weather, pilotage from Phoenix will be trivial. There is an interstate to follow the whole way.

Yeah, I haven't been in a 172 in several years. All of my recent time has been in the 182 or the Mooney, either of which I'd take up there without hesitation, but I don't have enough time and flexibility to take one of them from NY on this trip.

Looking at the sectional and the map, I figured just following I-17 would be the way to go.

If we do that, I am thinking about the feasibility of flying from Flagstaff down to Sierra Vista, but all those R areas and the multiple MOAs look pretty intimidating...although from what I read on the interwebs, getting into Sierra Vista through the restricted area really isn't that big of a deal, as long as you don't mind sharing the airspace with UAVs. But then, we'll be doing that very soon here in NY, if we're not already.

If making that trip, would you just roughly follow I-17, then I-10 to TUS then direct FHU? It doesn't look like going east of those mountains east of Tucson would be a great idea, and both times I've been into TUS on an airliner, it got slammed around pretty good descending through those mountains, making me think that doing that in anything smaller than an A320 would be a bad idea. But then, the highest mountains I've flown over have been the Adirondacks...

 

[MAKG1]

I've never been south or east of Phoenix, so I can't answer that.

If you have no high mountain experience, you need an instructor. Go where the instructor has experience. It will be one of the best flights of your life, but you'll have enough surprises that you don't want to be doing this with only a plane full of non pilots to accompany you.

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

I've never been south or east of Phoenix, so I can't answer that.

If you have no high mountain experience, you need an instructor. Go where the instructor has experience. It will be one of the best flights of your life, but you'll have enough surprises that you don't want to be doing this with only a plane full of non pilots to accompany you.

I don't know that I'd agree with that. Flagstaff ain't Colorado, where the are peaks everywhere. There is 1 big mountain. Know that DA is going to make your takeoff roll long and you should be fine.

 

[Buster1]

Please lean for full power / target EGT method for your takeoff and watch the DA.

 

[danhagan]

But I'm not sure how good of an idea it would be to plan to take a 172 into Flagstaff with two adults and a six year old, not having flown ever in that part of the country. I suppose in March or April, DA might not be a huge consideration, but still...

Wind and mechanical turbulence MIGHT ... that's our windy season in the desert. Even 25-30 miles away on the lee side of the mountain can be uncomfortable for pax.