North up vs track up

WannFly

WannFly

Final Approach
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i have always been a North Up kinda guy... but last few flights i have been flying track up and i think i like it more...



what do you prefer?



:popcorn:
 
Track up. And I reconfigured my car GPS's for track up... takes a bit getting used to but in the end, I think the orientation is improved for me.

Edit: Wait, I screwed up... North up I meant... I am confused just thinking about it...; )
 
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Track up on the 430W in the panel, north up on the 496 on the yoke and Foreflight on the tablet.
 
ZOMG!

North up, but only if I'm going north. :D

Do you north up guys need the cabin to swivel so you're always looking north too?
 
With paper maps, I will deride you relentlessly if you turn the map to navigate. But with modern technology it's just silly not to present the data so that left is left and right is right and in front of you is in front of you.
 
Salty said:
With paper maps, I will deride you relentlessly if you turn the map to navigate. But with modern technology it's just silly not to present the data so that left is left and right is right and in front of you is in front of you.
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Situation awareness should allow you to figure out which side is left and which is right. Modern technology even paints your position with a little airplane symbol. It’s just silly to configure the ground to move and the plane to remain stationary.


Tom
 
I'm a north up flyer.. have been since day one, and always will be. Drives me nuts to have track up; my CFI was constantly twisting my chart back in the paper days extolling the virtues of track up, but I don't like it and he eventually left me alone about it. It's easier for me to keep track of everything as it truly is; the world is not travelling around me, nor am I moving the world. I have no trouble at all figuring which way to turn, where to look for landmarks or traffic, how to self-announce position on the CTAF (what do you track-up guys say.. "We're 8 miles down from the airport on my screen, in bound full stop for the runway pointing to my left?"... ;) )

This is one of those "Whatever works best for you" things.. it doesn't matter.
 
MooneyDriver78 said:
Situation awareness should allow you to figure out which side is left and which is right. Modern technology even paints your position with a little airplane symbol. It’s just silly to configure the ground to move and the plane to remain stationary.


Tom
Click to expand...
The entire premise of a moving map is that the "ground" moves. Why would you discard that premise in one axis?
 
North up, because I have the brain capacity to determine where things are without having to have track up. That and years and years of drawings where everything was north up, and sectionals have the words written north up, and well, anyone who needs track up just doesn't have the brain processing power to figure out where left is or right is when the plane is pointing down on the screen.
 
Salty said:
The entire premise of a moving map is that the "ground" moves.
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Didn't realize that when we fly, the ground moves. Learn something new every day. So if I'm flying north, and you're flying SE, and someone else is flying W, which way is the ground moving?
 
EdFred said:
Didn't realize that when we fly, the ground moves. Learn something new every day. So if I'm flying north, and you're flying SE, and someone else is flying W, which way is the ground moving?
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Does your airplane fly off the screen or does the map move so that your plane stays on it? The map moves. Which is equivalent to the "ground" moving in your world view. So why is it ok for the ground to move left and right, up and down, but not ok for it to rotate? Makes no sense.

Your premise is that the ground should not move, but that's EXACTLY what is happening in a moving map display. Hence the name "moving map".
 
WannFly said:
i have always been a North Up kinda guy... but last few flights i have been flying track up and i think i like it more...



what do you prefer?



:popcorn:
Click to expand...

North up. I was raised on paper Charts and have no trouble visualizing where I am and where I'm going. It's what I'm used to. I've tried Track up and it just don't feel right. You have to be able 'visualize' on Track Up also to maintain situational awareness. So I guess it's just what works best for you.
 
EdFred said:
Didn't realize that when we fly, the ground moves. Learn something new every day. So if I'm flying north, and you're flying SE, and someone else is flying W, which way is the ground moving?
Click to expand...
That's the beauty of night flying, you can't see the ground move.
 
Salty said:
Does your airplane fly off the screen or does the map move so that your plane stays on it? The map moves. Which is equivalent to the "ground" moving in your world view. So why is it ok for the ground to move left and right, up and down, but not ok for it to rotate? Makes no sense.

Your premise is that the ground should not move, but that's EXACTLY what is happening in a moving map display. Hence the name "moving map".
Click to expand...

Actually, on one of the GPS - the one without map stitching, when I have the sectional or low en route displayed, it flies off the screen. Check. And mate.
 
EdFred said:
Actually, on one of the GPS - the one without map stitching, when I have the sectional or low en route displayed, it flies off the screen. Check. And mate.
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And you consider that better than track up? ;)
 
Salty said:
Does your airplane fly off the screen or does the map move so that your plane stays on it? The map moves. Which is equivalent to the "ground" moving in your world view. So why is it ok for the ground to move left and right, up and down, but not ok for it to rotate? Makes no sense.

Your premise is that the ground should not move, but that's EXACTLY what is happening in a moving map display. Hence the name "moving map".
Click to expand...

As a "north up" guy, I still don't see the "moving map" function as the map moving, but rather as the window that allows me to see a portion of the map moving about a large virtual map, left, right, up, down, and diagonally. When it rotates, it looks to me like the world is spinning wrong and makes no sense. Hard to explain. I REALLY dislike trying to deal with track up. Like I said, it doesn't matter.. not a question of right or wrong, better or worse.. just what works better or worse for each of us individually. Cheers.
 
Salty said:
And you consider that better than track up? ;)
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I do. You know why? Because without the stitching, I can look at information on the chart that isn't there when stitched. (the stuff that's on the sides of the chart, that you all have forgotten about)
 
MuseChaser said:
As a "north up" guy, I still don't see the "moving map" function as the map moving, but rather as the window that allows me to see a portion of the map moving about a large virtual map, left, right, up, down, and diagonally. When it rotates, it looks to me like the world is spinning wrong and makes no sense. Hard to explain. I REALLY dislike trying to deal with track up. Like I said, it doesn't matter.. not a question of right or wrong, better or worse.. just what works better or worse for each of us individually. Cheers.
Click to expand...
Shhh, don't tell anyone, but *I couldn't care less what someone else uses, I just like to argue, especially against irrational arguments like "I don't like my moving map to move"* ;)
 
Anyone want to hold Nate's Roman candle? ;)

North up. And I almost threw a CFI out of the plane when he switched my Garmin 430 to track up without talking to me first. He tried to insist that it was the ONLY right way. Nope, not after working with maps, charts, and drawings daily for almost 30 years. North up it is. In the end, he saw it my way.
 
Track up, it’s all what your comfortable with.
 
So when you are track up with a sectional displayed, are you guys attempting to read the chart info upside down? Also, if track up was the way things were supposed to be, they would issue 360 differently oriented section charts. Since they don't, and even the digital sectional charts don't orientate the text to be track up, the only correct answer it north up.
 
EdFred said:
So when you are track up with a sectional displayed, are you guys attempting to read the chart info upside down? Also, if track up was the way things were supposed to be, they would issue 360 differently oriented section charts. Since they don't, and even the digital sectional charts don't orientate the text to be track up, the only correct answer it north up.
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Modern technology presents the printed data right side up. It's like magic. :D
 
Magenta line on my chart was always pointed with my path in front of me... Track up. I could look out to the sides and see the landmarks left and right as I passed them.

This is also why high wings are best. You can't see the magenta line below you, or the landmarks AS you pass them.

:Stirpot, stir:
 
Salty said:
Modern technology presents the printed data right side up. It's like magic. :D
Click to expand...

I have yet to see a sectional programmed to rotate the text to align with track up other than true north.. Please provide evidence of this.
 
Track up on the panel, north up on the iPad.

Don’t really give a crap either way though.
 
I guess I prefer North up because I feel that, for me at least, that provides the best situational awareness. I found track up a bit confusing sometimes. Perhaps it's the opposite for others. I know it's trite but go with what works for you.
 
Salty said:
Modern technology presents the printed data right side up. It's like magic. :D
Click to expand...

No. Modern technology displays vector data the maker of the software cane up with, usually, and they also came up with arbitrary zoom levels to “declutter” at.

There have been a number of ASRS reports of pilots being zoomed out and their vector stuff not showing them critical data that’s right there on a normal chart.

Often there’s absolutely nothing published about what disappears at what zoom levels either, so even if you’re trying to be careful about it and study up, you won’t find what the programmers’ completely arbitrary rules are.

And then there’s the differences in rules between manufacturers.

Like ... on the GNX stuff, Garmin likes to remove traffic completely at an arbitrary range. That one is actually documented.

iPad stuff documented? Good luck. :)
 
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