Noob question - Training/Charter flight

jchass1

Filing Flight Plan
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May 28, 2014
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jchass1
Good day all -

Noob here. I am beginning my licensing process this summer in NY. I am looking for a mentor to start this process in the most efficient way, preferably someone based in NYC or Long Island.

Additionally, I am hoping to find someone who might be available to do a trip from Republic or East Hampton Airport to Great Barrington MA on June 28th.

If either is of interest to you, please PM me so we can speak further. Appreciate any assistance!

JC
 
Good day all -

Noob here. I am beginning my licensing process this summer in NY. I am looking for a mentor to start this process in the most efficient way, preferably someone based in NYC or Long Island.

Additionally, I am hoping to find someone who might be available to do a trip from Republic or East Hampton Airport to Great Barrington MA on June 28th.

If either is of interest to you, please PM me so we can speak further. Appreciate any assistance!

JC

It will help if you tell us what your background is and what your aviation goals are.
 
New York is probably the worst place to learn how to fly in the country. But there are no shortage of people who fly there. I'd look to New Jersey for flight instruction. There are some smaller, quieter airports that will be better for learning.

Some instructors will do instructional flights with a destination as part of instruction. Others won't, for fear of the FAA citing them for breaking part 135 regs. This will vary from instructor to instructor, as well as whether or not you're really just trying to get a cheap charter without any true instructional intent. If so, expect resistance. If you really want to go and learn, I think most instructors won't have an issue.
 
If you really want to go and learn, I think most instructors won't have an issue.
Zero to first dual XC in 30 days is possible, but not at all certain, and requires appropriate VFR weather, too (although that's pretty easy in the Northeast this time of year). Lots less pressure if the OP just hires a charter for that flight and does the training independently.

BTW, Nassau Flyers at Republic seems to do a lot of flight training, and I think some folks here have done training with them, although I have no personal experience with them. However, I do know we have several PoA members who fly out of Republic and Islip -- perhaps some of them would be willing to mentor you even if they can't speak to Nassau Flyers' reputation. I hope one of those folks will respond.
 
Zero to first dual XC in 30 days is possible, but not at all certain, and requires appropriate VFR weather, too (although that's pretty easy in the Northeast this time of year). Lots less pressure if the OP just hires a charter for that flight and does the training independently.

The 2nd entry in my logbook was a dual cross country in actual. My instructor never took over the controls other than to land. I still look back on that as a tremendous learning experience both in ways directly relevant to flying, but also in starting to shape my future path with flying. It seems to have worked out pretty well 2200 hours and under 6 years later.

There's more than one way to skin the cat, and that's between the student and instructor.
 
I am available for hire - mentor and I am right in NJ. Lol just playing you can get a lot of advice here, I don't know if you need an official mentor, I learned a lot during my process from many of the great people on here and some of the crappy ones too.. Haha just playing
 
Good day all -

Noob here. I am beginning my licensing process this summer in NY. I am looking for a mentor to start this process in the most efficient way, preferably someone based in NYC or Long Island.

Additionally, I am hoping to find someone who might be available to do a trip from Republic or East Hampton Airport to Great Barrington MA on June 28th.

If either is of interest to you, please PM me so we can speak further. Appreciate any assistance!

JC


First post................

Welcome to POA.....:cheers:
 
The 2nd entry in my logbook was a dual cross country in actual. My instructor never took over the controls other than to land.
And Gertrude Jones lost 90 pounds in three months with the XYZ weight loss program.*

*Results not typical.


As I said, it's possible, but not likely, and it would take me a few days (maybe a week) of ground training/preparation to get someone ready for an IFR XC on their second lesson in primary training -- I'm not a big fan of "just do what I say" without any idea what you're doing or why as a training system.
 
Don't you just go to most any airport flight school and say "hey! I want to learn how to fly! and here's my money!"

What's a mentor?

Isn't that like one of those half horse half man dudes?
 
Don't know when it happened, but in today's environment, it would be called a charter flight without an operating certificate.



The 2nd entry in my logbook was a dual cross country in actual. My instructor never took over the controls other than to land. I still look back on that as a tremendous learning experience both in ways directly relevant to flying, but also in starting to shape my future path with flying. It seems to have worked out pretty well 2200 hours and under 6 years later.

There's more than one way to skin the cat, and that's between the student and instructor.
 
Thanks all for the feedback; some more helpful than others...

I am beginning the process for my PPL and hoping for some advice on the best place to start.
 
I was in the same position as you last summer. I live a few minutes from FRG but ended up doing my PPL training at a flight school out of ISP. Although the drive was a bit longer, it was worth it. I rent out of FRG now and everything you hear about long wait times on the ground, and extended patterns is true. I hear it gets worse during the summer.

ISP I rarely experienced longer wait times and I enjoyed the strict curriculum at the school I was at. I also enjoyed flying into and out of a Class C airport but definitely took some time to get acclimated to FRG now that I fly out of there (which is a Class D airport).

I'm still a very new pilot but the ISP-HTO or FRG-HTO is still a common local flight I do and is very scenic! Flight to OXC is also a short fun one.

Let me know if you have any specific questions regarding getting started at FRG/ISP as I just went through the process last summer.

Good luck!
 
And Gertrude Jones lost 90 pounds in three months with the XYZ weight loss program.*

*Results not typical.


As I said, it's possible, but not likely, and it would take me a few days (maybe a week) of ground training/preparation to get someone ready for an IFR XC on their second lesson in primary training -- I'm not a big fan of "just do what I say" without any idea what you're doing or why as a training system.

I do agree that the training I had is not typical and wouldn't work for many. But, my point is that it is possible. After all, I did it, and the only thing special about me is my inability to find a barber shop. So, I'm simply making the point.
 
Welcome to the board. Have you done an intro flight yet? do you have any hours at this time. Is there a reason for the trip to great Barrington? More info is usually better when posting.
 
I do agree that the training I had is not typical and wouldn't work for many. But, my point is that it is possible. After all, I did it, and the only thing special about me is my inability to find a barber shop. So, I'm simply making the point.
While your flight might have been legitimate, as pointed out by another, it is very, very difficult to sell an IFR XC to the FAA as "bona fide training" for someone who has not yet even soloed (especially if the putative trainee has business at the destination), and they have nailed a few faux-135 operators trying to sell air transportation as flight training. If such a flight were to come to their attention, they would examine very closely to see if the flight was made in an appropriate aircraft, with an appropriate level of trainee involvement in the planning and preparation process as well as the flying.
 
While your flight might have been legitimate, as pointed out by another, it is very, very difficult to sell an IFR XC to the FAA as "bona fide training" for someone who has not yet even soloed (especially if the putative trainee has business at the destination), and they have nailed a few faux-135 operators trying to sell air transportation as flight training. If such a flight were to come to their attention, they would examine very closely to see if the flight was made in an appropriate aircraft, with an appropriate level of trainee involvement in the planning and preparation process as well as the flying.


Well, assuming that the OP is serious about learning to fly, that should not be a problem.

Plus, what's the odds of the FAA even asking? 0.001%?
 
Well, assuming that the OP is serious about learning to fly, that should not be a problem.
If you were the CFI trying to organize that, you might feel differently. It would take me a couple of hours just to develop the plan to conduct the necessary ground training prior to that flight, and probably a couple of days to execute it -- maybe even a couple of weeks. You'd have to cover airspace, instrument procedures, VFR and IFR aeronautical charts, communication, IFR and VFR flight rules, weather theory and forecasts/charts/reports, etc. in order to make this a legitimate training flight rather than a monkey-told/monkey-do with the instructor doing all the thinking, all the radios, all the navigation, and all the planning/decision-making and the trainee merely manipulating the flight controls on command -- and that's when it starts to look like a Part 135 operation masquerading as training. I just don't see it happening properly unless the trainee is really, really serious (which Ted probably was).

Plus, what's the odds of the FAA even asking? 0.001%?
Probably depends on whether or not the "training" provider advertises or otherwise gets a reputation for offering this as a service, or something goes wrong on the flight. The outfit down in Florida advertising something like this in an obviously faux-training manner was reported to the FAA, which investigated and shut them down hard. It's certainly not something I'd risk my tickets on without a solid commitment by the trainee demonstrated by undergoing the ground training I consider appropriate prior to the flight, and that could be one heck of a lot of ground training.

I will say that such a flight might be part of a solid program of situationally-based training like they do at Middle Tennessee State University, where the students are prepared over 2-3 semesters for an integrated PP/IR course culminating in a single PP/IR practical test. However, IIRC, they go through several weeks of classroom and both part-task and FTD sim work before the first flight.
 
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Right, I'm not talking about gaming the system, I'm talking about legitimate learning going on while also getting somewhere - it's possible and reasonable.
 
Well, assuming that the OP is serious about learning to fly, that should not be a problem.

Exactly.

If you were the CFI trying to organize that, you might feel differently.

Well, not this CFI. I'm more interested in the student. I don't do primary training, but if I did and I saw a student who had the drive I did, I would have no problems recreating my second lesson.

I just don't see it happening properly unless the trainee is really, really serious (which Ted probably was).

Well, you've seen what I've done with my flying since I've been on here pretty much since day 1 and you've been on here longer, so I think the serious part should be pretty obvious.

Probably depends on whether or not the "training" provider advertises or otherwise gets a reputation for offering this as a service, or something goes wrong on the flight. The outfit down in Florida advertising something like this in an obviously faux-training manner was reported to the FAA, which investigated and shut them down hard. It's certainly not something I'd risk my tickets on without a solid commitment by the trainee demonstrated by undergoing the ground training I consider appropriate prior to the flight, and that could be one heck of a lot of ground training.

I think you're talking about the 421 "flight training" deal, which was an obvious 134.5 operation and is very different from a student and instructor in a 172 going someplace.

Right, I'm not talking about gaming the system, I'm talking about legitimate learning going on while also getting somewhere - it's possible and reasonable.

Precisely, and that is the important line. That is a determination that each instructor and student must deal with, which was my entire point.
 
Right, I'm not talking about gaming the system, I'm talking about legitimate learning going on while also getting somewhere - it's possible and reasonable.


Absolutely.

We bought a turbo Stationair back in the seventies, and 'hired' an airline pilot slash CFI to fly it in exchange for hunting trips and mucho whiskey and beer. :yes:

All of that time was log time for me.
 
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