Newark Approach Moving to Philly?

DJTorrente

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DJTorrente

Unfortunately, this mass media news story is not very clear about exactly what is proposed to change. It sounds to me that Philly Approach will take control of airspace that feeds Newark tower, whichbusee to be controlled by New York Approach.

But unless I'm mistaken, the controllers of that airspace, NY Approach, are not physically in the tower at Newark; NY Approach sits in Garden City, NY. If that's the case, why would it be a big deal if the split the airspace and move some of it to Philadelphia?
 
NorCal Approach covers 20,000 square miles - from the coast to the Sierra, from south of Monterey to well north of Sacramento - from one facility near Sacramento and it works fine. There had been four separate TRACONs. As they became consolidated, I didn’t notice any difference, just that they had a different name.
 
This article explains it a little bit better:
Kind of figured it was about traffic flow and staffing. In 2023, N90 handled about 1.9 Million operations, second only to SOCAL. PHL under 480,000

TRACON controllers aren't looking out a window. Probably no different from an operational standpoint than the existence of multiple sectors within a single TRACON.
 
I've had decent success with both. As far as I'm concerned, Chicago already set the bar to rock bottom in that respect, so the only way is up from there.
 
N90 is sitting between 50 and 60% staffed. There has been a long history of it being difficult to staff for a number of reasons.

The NY metroplex is one of if not the most complex airspace on the planet. That brings with it a certain bravado among the certified controllers who run it. Trainees (almost always controllers previously certified at other places except for one program where they tried to hire locals direct to N90) were quickly taught to do it the N90 way or not at all and would get washed out from training.

second the cost of living is insane, so anyone not from Long Island doesn’t particularly want to live there. I’ve heard of people making 3 hour commutes and using crash pads just to make it by.

So the idea is, transfer a bunch of new people to PHL, take any volunteers from N90 who want to move permanently and take them to PHL, and along with some people who would do only a temporary duty in PHL to train up a new team of controllers for the EWR sector. Then send those controllers back to N90 after they did the training and keep there staffing target high, so in theory they would now have more people to fill less seats.

PHL gets a traffic bump so they all make more money, and N90 gets better staffing.

Again, all in theory. This is a multi year saga that still might all fall apart.
 
second the cost of living is insane, so anyone not from Long Island doesn’t particularly want to live there. I’ve heard of people making 3 hour commutes and using crash pads just to make it by.

...it's more like line item #1/Occam on the ledger, ime. This is a COL/undesirability issue, and people react to rational incentives (understaffing et al). We deal with similar dynamics in the .mil side of fed employment. There's positions where we lose 4-5 people per open billet until they get to the non-vols with balance remaining, who can't 7-day opt and separate. About to start doing a 3:10-3:45 (traffic dependent) pilgrimage back to the salt mines again myself, every weekend. Good times.

All in all, geobash/hyper-commutes are not a totally uncommon American labor experience (nomads/gentrified/perma-transplants as we are), at least for those of us unable to pivot to the WFH shtick. I find it refreshing the agency is actually responsive enough to make that kind of geographic change where plausible in order to facilitate the retainment of talent. Good on 'em. Hopefully it alleviates the staffing imbalance.
 
Thanks for the link.

This is hardly the first time NY Approach has made the news due to "staffing issues".

That said, my experience as a GenAv FLIB has been more favorable with NY Approach than Philly, particularly for Bravo transits.
Interesting. The times I’ve dealt with PHL (flights into and out of PHL and ABE) they’ve been great.
 
Kind of figured it was about traffic flow and staffing. In 2023, N90 handled about 1.9 Million operations, second only to SOCAL. PHL under 480,000

TRACON controllers aren't looking out a window. Probably no different from an operational standpoint than the existence of multiple sectors within a single TRACON.
Hi all! Just want to set the record straight.

Yes it is possible to split N90 airspace up and move EWR sector to PHL Tracon.

However, the specific airspace we are dealing with in this case is uniquely complex and interconnected with N90 LGA and LIBERTY airspace.

We are constantly yelling across the room at each other and doing unique airspace sharing that dramatically improves efficiency.

With EWR airspace in PHL, we will lose some of those efficiency gains.

The best example I can give (although I have many others) is deviations around thunderstorms in Summer. I own very little airspace. When a LGA arrival tells me he needs 10 degrees left for 5 miles, he leaves my airspace. Period. I cannot accommodate deviations and remain in my airspace.

So I work with the EWR controller to borrow some of their airspace. But it’s not easy! They are busy, talking a mile a minute! So am I. Often times, making that phone call is nearly impossible!

So I ask my supervisor to walk over to the EWR controller scope and literally point exactly what I want to do with my planes. “He is gonna take the next 6 LGA arrivals here and then here. He will stay at 10,000ft until he back in his own airspace.”

It is incredible unnerving when your whole flow of LGA arrivals are deviating opposite direction of the EWR Departures, all of whom are climbing through the altitude of your arrivals!

So whenever I’m doing this, I’m very cautious to make sure the EWR controller knows EXACTLY what I’m doing with my airplanes.

I do NOT do this with other adjacent facilities. This kind of operation only works because they are right there in the same room as me.

If this move goes through, and EWR airspace is in PHL, I don’t believe those 6 LGA arrivals get to the airport nearly as quickly. I’ll end up putting the Centers into the hold until I can ensure that we have a safe plan to work them around the storms. I would say #1 gets 10 min in the hold and you can add 5 min to each subsequent arrival.

It’s a shame because we work so hard at N90 to be as efficient as possible. We squeeze every last drop out of this tight and complex airspace. But splitting this airspace into two separate buildings will seriously hamper our ability to do that.

We will always keep the planes safe. But we might have to slow the operation down.
 
Who's going to take over responsibility for discussing barbecuing cats with Teterboro?
 
Who's going to take over responsibility for discussing barbecuing cats with Teterboro?
That was a conversation between TEB Tower and TEB airport Ops. So you’ll have to ask someone else.
 
Hi all! Just want to set the record straight.

Yes it is possible to split N90 airspace up and move EWR sector to PHL Tracon.

However, the specific airspace we are dealing with in this case is uniquely complex and interconnected with N90 LGA and LIBERTY airspace.

We are constantly yelling across the room at each other and doing unique airspace sharing that dramatically improves efficiency.

With EWR airspace in PHL, we will lose some of those efficiency gains.

The best example I can give (although I have many others) is deviations around thunderstorms in Summer. I own very little airspace. When a LGA arrival tells me he needs 10 degrees left for 5 miles, he leaves my airspace. Period. I cannot accommodate deviations and remain in my airspace.

So I work with the EWR controller to borrow some of their airspace. But it’s not easy! They are busy, talking a mile a minute! So am I. Often times, making that phone call is nearly impossible!

So I ask my supervisor to walk over to the EWR controller scope and literally point exactly what I want to do with my planes. “He is gonna take the next 6 LGA arrivals here and then here. He will stay at 10,000ft until he back in his own airspace.”

It is incredible unnerving when your whole flow of LGA arrivals are deviating opposite direction of the EWR Departures, all of whom are climbing through the altitude of your arrivals!

So whenever I’m doing this, I’m very cautious to make sure the EWR controller knows EXACTLY what I’m doing with my airplanes.

I do NOT do this with other adjacent facilities. This kind of operation only works because they are right there in the same room as me.

If this move goes through, and EWR airspace is in PHL, I don’t believe those 6 LGA arrivals get to the airport nearly as quickly. I’ll end up putting the Centers into the hold until I can ensure that we have a safe plan to work them around the storms. I would say #1 gets 10 min in the hold and you can add 5 min to each subsequent arrival.

It’s a shame because we work so hard at N90 to be as efficient as possible. We squeeze every last drop out of this tight and complex airspace. But splitting this airspace into two separate buildings will seriously hamper our ability to do that.

We will always keep the planes safe. But we might have to slow the operation down.
What is the LIBERTY airspace?
 
Liberty is the short name of EWR. It's officially the Newark Liberty International Airport.
Liberty is one of the 5 areas within New York Tracon.

It’s a departure area that owns the airspace above EWR/LGA/JFK areas, but below the Centers.

EWR/LGA and JFK give their departures to Liberty who sequences them and gives them to the Center.

EWR departure scope is currently 10-15 from the Liberty Scopes. They are talking constantly. This move will seriously impact EWR efficiency.
 
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