New to PoA; Tips for first passenger?

JonL62021

JonL62021

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Jon
Hi all,

I finished my PPL, ASEL about a week ago. I thought I'd join this site to gain some access to a larger pilot community. I'm the first pilot in my family and circle of friends, so I dont have anyone to talk to about aviation besides my instructors.

I am in my early 30s, live in Western MA, and took my discovery flight in 2019. I quit my job as a laser welding process engineer in 2019 to become a stay at home dad, and the little guy turns 2 in September. I'll be flying as a hobby, and hopefully will start a kit plane in the next 2-3 years (about the time I get back to work).

I plan on taking my first passenger, my wife, on her first flight in a GA plane this Sunday. I can't tell if she's nervous or not, but she is a little worried she won't like flying. She suggested maybe just doing some pattern work, but I worry that's the most stressful part of flying. Instead, I think we should go for a cross country 30 mins or so away. I'm thinking a first flight over the Berkshires would be a nice introduction. Who knows maybe we will do both.

I'm really hoping she loves flying so this isn't just a hobby I do by myself. Any thoughts or suggestions for making sure she enjoys the flight as much as possible?

-Jon
 
ok I'll say it........early morning or late evening is typically the calmest. I would highly recommend trying that for a first time passenger. also, I absolutely don't recommend pattern work as an ice breaker.
 
I've been flying for 44 years. When I take a "first timer" up, I take them for a 15 to 25 minute flight, usually to something interesting. It sounds like you have a place in mind. Try it, you can always turn around if she doesn't like it. And yes, late in the evening or early morning are the best times.
 
Has anybody mentioned going in the morning or evening yet? :)

I agree with making it a short scenic flight no more than 25-30 minutes total. Maybe show them their house/neighborhood. As another western MA guy, I find that the Connecticut River Valley and the Quabbin are good points of interest.

Congrats!

Edit: Somehow I missed that your wife will be the passenger. Definitely stick with a shorter flight as an intro. Trust me....less is more!
 
Last edited:
Re: "Tips for first passenger," wouldn't it make more sense for the passenger to tip the pilot that the other way around? ;)
 
Float the idea of eventually going to Martha's Vineyard or Nantucket -- or other places that are hard to get to any other way -- as something to work toward as you both gain confidence.

Be mindful to NEVER utter any of the following phrases in front of passengers, even offhandedly:
"Oh, ****"
"What the hell was that?"
"Oops."
 
eman1200 said:
ok I'll say it........early morning or late evening is typically the calmest. I would highly recommend trying that for a first time passenger. also, I absolutely don't recommend pattern work as an ice breaker.
Click to expand...

Yup. And just about any kind of 'maneuver' stuff ya been workin on so much during training.
Palmpilot said:
Re: "Tips for first passenger," wouldn't it make more sense for the passenger to tip the pilot that the other way around? ;)
Click to expand...

Yeah. And if you get a negative tip maybe you should get a little more training.
 
JonL62021 said:
Hi all,

I finished my PPL, ASEL about a week ago. I thought I'd join this site to gain some access to a larger pilot community. I'm the first pilot in my family and circle of friends, so I dont have anyone to talk to about aviation besides my instructors.

I am in my early 30s, live in Western MA, and took my discovery flight in 2019. I quit my job as a laser welding process engineer in 2019 to become a stay at home dad, and the little guy turns 2 in September. I'll be flying as a hobby, and hopefully will start a kit plane in the next 2-3 years (about the time I get back to work).

I plan on taking my first passenger, my wife, on her first flight in a GA plane this Sunday. I can't tell if she's nervous or not, but she is a little worried she won't like flying. She suggested maybe just doing some pattern work, but I worry that's the most stressful part of flying. Instead, I think we should go for a cross country 30 mins or so away. I'm thinking a first flight over the Berkshires would be a nice introduction. Who knows maybe we will do both.

I'm really hoping she loves flying so this isn't just a hobby I do by myself. Any thoughts or suggestions for making sure she enjoys the flight as much as possible?

-Jon
Click to expand...

Oh yeah. And welcome to POA.
 
kath said:
Be mindful to NEVER utter any of the following phrases in front of passengers, even offhandedly:
"Oh, ****"
Click to expand...
I learned that the hard way when I was a new PPL. I dropped my pen on takeoff with an "oh ****" attached. Luckily I was flying with another friend/pilot so it was NBD, but it alarmed him.
 
kath said:
Float the idea of eventually going to Martha's Vineyard or Nantucket -- or other places that are hard to get to any other way -- as something to work toward as you both gain confidence.

Be mindful to NEVER utter any of the following phrases in front of passengers, even offhandedly:
"Oh, ****"
"What the hell was that?"
"Oops."
Click to expand...

"Hmm, that's interesting" doesn't work either.
 
I took my sister for her first flight in a GA airplane Sunday. She wanted to go so I flew from Dayton to Cincinnati to pick her up. I gave her a brief about the route, walked her thru a preflight and boarded. She was very interested in everything. So……..

I had her read the checklist and explained what each item meant as I checked it. Taxi and take off and explained each radio call (not a very busy day). Flew over her town, down the Ohio River and back to the Drome.

I had warned about slight turbulence and when we hit a few thermals, she remarked it was less than she expected. Any turns and power changes were predeclared so no surprises.

Just some thoughts about one first time flight went. A lot depends the level of interest and personality. About the only thing that is constant for me is to let the firstimer know what happens next. Any surprises certainly can cause anxiety and might turn off a pax from enjoying flying.

Good luck.
 
Thanks for all the tips! I'll keep it shorter than I was originally planning, and move the time to right when the rental is available in the am. I have some sicsacs on order just in case, and will keep the pattern work to a minimum.

Really looking forward to it but I'm glad I asked. Its been about 2 years since I started flying. I'm so excited to share flying I overlooked a few of these details.
 
X3 Skier said:
Any turns and power changes were predeclared so no surprises.
Click to expand...

I think this is always good practice to predeclare with a first-timer, especially the "power changes." I make a point to brief first-time passengers that they will hear some different noises, beeps, as well as the change in power/engine sounds as I manipulate the controls in certain phases of flight. Pre-declaring these things again right before you do them is good practice, as well.

kath said:
Float the idea of eventually going to Martha's Vineyard or Nantucket -- or other places that are hard to get to any other way -- as something to work toward as you both gain confidence.

Be mindful to NEVER utter any of the following phrases in front of passengers, even offhandedly:
"Oh, ****"
"What the hell was that?"
"Oops."
Click to expand...

Sac Arrow said:
Hmm, that's interesting" doesn't work either.
Click to expand...

I made both of these mistakes the first time I had my fiancée on a flight with me. My secondary comm radio had a few errant light diodes flickering and my light tapping of the display and intial under-the-breath statement of, "Hmm...well, s**t...that's interesting" did NOT sit well with her. :rofl: It obviously wasn't a major deal at all, but my "casual" way of handling was not so casual in her eyes!
 
Reminds me of my first flight after getting my Private long ago. I took up my first passenger, a woman I was dating at the time, trying of course to impress her. After training almost exclusively in calm conditions and sunny weather over the course of a year (Arizona), this day featured an incoming storm front that I thought was far enough away. Needless to say, the flight needed to be cut short as the clouds blew in, and on return to my single-runway airport, a significant crosswind had developed. It took me at least two tries (maybe 3?) to get it on the ground, where my brakes locked up on the rollout (probably due to pilot error on my part). I don't know how well I covered my concern about landing safely, but I guess I did OK, since she ended up marrying me.

Moral of the story: be extra vigilant in checking the weather before your flight! No need to introduce a first-timer to the joys of challenging turbulence, strong crosswinds, or even unplanned entry into IMC!
 
Don't listen to these other guys, what you really want to do is impress her with your new pilot skills!

  • Do a short field takeoff and a max performance Vx climbout
  • Go to the practice area and do some nice 45* bank turns
  • A few power on/off stalls, yelling "Hooeee" when the plane breaks
  • Pull it to idle, tell her the engine quit, and show her your skills at finding a nice off airport landing spot
J/K :biggrin::rofl::rockon:

The first time I take a new person up I strive to give the best "airliner" ride I can. Nice and smooth, low pitch and bank angles and low pitch and roll rates. Nice and smooth, and early morning/evening is best for smooth.
 
JonL62021 said:
……., and will keep the pattern work to a minimum…….
.
Click to expand...

ummmm no. My opinion follows.

you should plan to not do ANY “pattern work”.

take off.
Get smoothly away and to your destination.
Turn around and come back.
Use the pattern as necessary to enter it and land.

no touch and goes
No “pattern work”.
 
I know you said in your first post you wanted to start on a kit plane in a couple of years. I think you should talk to some builders of kits before you do. I know people who have spent 10 years building their airplanes, tying up most of their time and assets in construction rather than in flying. The best value in aviation is a good, well maintained used aircraft with about 600-900 hours SMOH. That puts those planes at 2600-2900 or 4600-4900 TTAF time. If it has been well maintained you could fly it right away and enjoy it now, instead of building your perfect airplane over the next several years, and then flying it.

In 2004 my wife and I took flying lessons together. We purchased a '68 Piper Cherokee after I soloed and I completed my PPL in it. We put 500 hours on it in 14 years and have taken numerous trips in that airplane. We were vigilant in keeping the airplane in good shape and over the years made intelligent upgrades that suited our flying missions. Insurance was reasonable, costs were manageable, our mechanics are friendly. We sold that airplane for $8000 less than we paid for it, that's about $600 per year. That is not total costs for everything involved in owning an aircraft, but you'd be hard pressed to do better than that on any airplane, kit or not. I think this type of ownership scenario is repeatable if you shop around and find the right airplane.

It is just something to think about.
 
Stalls, lots of stalls! And my favorite, when they are looking out the side window, pull the power and point the nose straight down. First timers love that!
 
Definitely brief your pax on what you're doing and why you're doing it! Maybe even consider "debriefing" them afterwards in case they have questions or comments.

One thing you might not think about that is not comfy for a first timer - slipping. I had a gentleman at my church who only took one or two GA flights but loved flying. When he heard I was taking lessons, he talked to me and described the flight his friend had taken him on years ago in a Cub, during which the pilot had performed a slip on final. He asked me if that was normal or not, so I explained to him what it was called and why it was done. He wasn't scared by it, and really enjoyed talking about it, but I just couldn't help but think that he'd wondered about it for over 15 years. I'd like my pax to walk away knowing stuff like that!

Another thing - she might feel like even 20*-30* turns are really steep, so maybe slow down the rate at which you roll into the turn so she can get used to the feeling.
 
My tips in no particular order.
  • No means no. If you get to the end of runway and the pax decides they no longer want to fly, no means no. Don't try to talk them into it. Don't try to pressure them into it. Turn around and taxi back in and don't give them any grief for it.
  • No steep turns unless they ask to see them.
  • No high G or negative G stuff unless they ask for it.
  • Calm air only. Bumpy weather=scrub/reschedule.
  • Keep it short. 30 minutes is plenty for first flight.
For our first date, I flew to where my wife lived, picked her up and flew for a $100 burger about 30 minutes away. As we were pulling onto the runway I told her we were about to takeoff and asked if she was ok with that. She nervously replied 'am I going to die?" As I pushed the throttle in, I kind of chuckled and said 'of course you're going to die. But not today.' She married me anyway.
 
I find knowledge is power here.

Be professional at all times. Yes you're excited and yes this stuff is cool, but she's not there yet. Stick to matter-of-factness and serious/professional demeanor about the flight.

Have her join your walkaround on the preflight. You may have sneakily already done the preflight, but do it again for her benefit. Explain what you're looking for and why it matters. Mention the safety items (2 fuel tanks, 2 sources of fuel pump, if those fail, this turns into a glider not a rock, etc) -- don't make it a lecture, just be factual about your safety checks and what you're looking for.

Then go somewhere you've already been. Your confidence will show in small ways and she will benefit from it. If you spend time fishing Left vs Right pattern entry or proper frequencies out of the iPad, that's time she's contemplating her death at your rookie hands, because she assumes it's an answer you should already know. :D (guess what, she's right -- preflight plan the heck out of the flight and have your crib sheet on a kneeboard)

Keep a running dialogue of what you're doing. Not intricate technical things, but why you're trimming, how you're planning to enter a pattern. ANNOUNCE things before you do them "about to bank for a turn", "going to switch from climb power to cruise power", "about to pull the power out to begin a descent" -- never let her wonder wtf you're doing. Never dish out a surprise.

If you hit bumps, have your calming rationale ready. I like to mention turbulence is like a boat going through choppy water. It helps her realize the plane will ignore it, and there's nothing really you can do about an environmental situation.

I'd normally say "have fun", but maybe on this one, don't. Good luck? :D
 
JonL62021 said:
Hi all,

I finished my PPL, ASEL about a week ago. I thought I'd join this site to gain some access to a larger pilot community. I'm the first pilot in my family and circle of friends, so I dont have anyone to talk to about aviation besides my instructors.

I am in my early 30s, live in Western MA, and took my discovery flight in 2019. I quit my job as a laser welding process engineer in 2019 to become a stay at home dad, and the little guy turns 2 in September. I'll be flying as a hobby, and hopefully will start a kit plane in the next 2-3 years (about the time I get back to work).

I plan on taking my first passenger, my wife, on her first flight in a GA plane this Sunday. I can't tell if she's nervous or not, but she is a little worried she won't like flying. She suggested maybe just doing some pattern work, but I worry that's the most stressful part of flying. Instead, I think we should go for a cross country 30 mins or so away. I'm thinking a first flight over the Berkshires would be a nice introduction. Who knows maybe we will do both.

I'm really hoping she loves flying so this isn't just a hobby I do by myself. Any thoughts or suggestions for making sure she enjoys the flight as much as possible?

-Jon
Click to expand...
Find smooth air — if you have to go higher and face a bigger headwind to get out of the bumps, do it.

Tell them everything that's going to happen. A 20° bank will feel like rolling inverted to them, and if you're also reducing power (e.g. in the turn from downwind to base), the sensation will be frightening at first. Try something like "I'm going to fly in the opposite direction of the runway, then turn left twice to line up with it. With the first turn, you might feel a slight falling sensation as we start descending". If you're doing a sideslip or crab for a crosswind, explain that too (preferably in advance, when you're not busy).

They're less likely to get sick if they're looking outside the plane — tell them if they spot at least 5 other planes before you do, you'll pay for lunch (or something like that).

Keep the ball centred — yaw feels much worse when you're not the one flying.

Don't keep fiddling obsessively with the throttle and trim — they'll worry there's something wrong that you're not telling them. Make only the necessary adjustments, and make them slowly and calmly when you do.

Help them troubleshoot headset and seatbelt issues before you start rolling, and don't rush them.

If they prefer sitting in the back seat, don't argue (W&B permitting).

Have foam earplugs ready in case they find the headset uncomfortable.

Have barf bags ready out of sight but close at hand, and tell them where they are.

Have a pack of mints for them to suck on.

Tell them the only exciting part of the flight will be the scenery — you're going to fly nice and smoothly. :)


D
 
I remember the first time I took my wife as my passenger. As we were taxing out and I was trying to calmly explain what was happening and what would be occurring during the take-off roll she looked and said something akin to, "I don't need to know all of that, let's just get this over with!" LOL

She will fly with me now and again but it ain't something she's crazy about. Still she's very supportive of my flying so I offer to take her with me if/when she wants, but I don't push her to go.
 
Don’t tell them they’re your first passenger.
 
JonL62021 said:
Hi all,

I finished my PPL, ASEL about a week ago. I thought I'd join this site to gain some access to a larger pilot community. I'm the first pilot in my family and circle of friends, so I dont have anyone to talk to about aviation besides my instructors.

I am in my early 30s, live in Western MA, and took my discovery flight in 2019. I quit my job as a laser welding process engineer in 2019 to become a stay at home dad, and the little guy turns 2 in September. I'll be flying as a hobby, and hopefully will start a kit plane in the next 2-3 years (about the time I get back to work).

I plan on taking my first passenger, my wife, on her first flight in a GA plane this Sunday. I can't tell if she's nervous or not, but she is a little worried she won't like flying. She suggested maybe just doing some pattern work, but I worry that's the most stressful part of flying. Instead, I think we should go for a cross country 30 mins or so away. I'm thinking a first flight over the Berkshires would be a nice introduction. Who knows maybe we will do both.

I'm really hoping she loves flying so this isn't just a hobby I do by myself. Any thoughts or suggestions for making sure she enjoys the flight as much as possible?

-Jon
Click to expand...
Welcome to POA!!
 
Kritchlow said:
Don’t tell them they’re your first passenger.
Click to expand...
My first passenger knew he was the first, because he was my cousin and I had passed my PPL checkride the previous day. I have appreciated the vote of confidence ever since. :)
 
Palmpilot said:
My first passenger knew he was the first, because he was my cousin and I had passed my PPL checkride the previous day. I have appreciated the vote of confidence ever since. :)
Click to expand...

My wife wasn't my first passenger. She has flown with me in several planes that I have owed and/or built.

She was my first passenger in the plane I have now. I had done the 40 hour phase one and a long cross country in it. She went with me on a short day trip that was about 35 minutes each way.

After takeoff I was slowly climbing when she looked up and said, "is that how high we are?" I said, "yes, we are at 1800'." She then asked, is that how fast we are going?" I confirmed our speed. Then she said, "we are OK right here." So I leveled off at 2000' and slowed gently to maintain a comfortable cruise.

Personally I would have preferred a bit more altitude but we weren't going far and she seemed to be comfortable with being lower.

She has always said, "I trust you and I trust the airplane ... I just don't like looking down!"
 
I feel sorry for pilots when I hear their wives won’t fly with them. My wife was not sure about this flying thing at all. I waited until fall and a calm day, we flew to Kansas City for the weekend which in that plane was about an hour flight.

I wanted to make sure the air was smooth and that it was cool out, but not cold either.

It wasn’t long before she said ”There is something I want to look at in KC, can you fly me?” She used to only want to do 2 hour legs as we started flying further.

Now she is spoiled and won’t fly commercial. When she goes on a girls trip, I fly her and drop her off and come back to get her. It would be way cheaper if she flew commercial, but she lets me have airplanes, so I am not going to complain. She will now fly 2 four hour legs in a day if needed. We have flown to both coasts and almost every where in between.

My advice is to take it slow, make sure the day is perfect and make sure you are ready to be perfect. Waiting until everything is perfect could be the difference between having a spouse that won’t fly with you and having one that will fly anywhere in any weather with you.
 
JonL62021 said:
Thanks for all the tips! I'll keep it shorter than I was originally planning, and move the time to right when the rental is available in the am. I have some sicsacs on order just in case, and will keep the pattern work to a minimum.

Really looking forward to it but I'm glad I asked. Its been about 2 years since I started flying. I'm so excited to share flying I overlooked a few of these details.
Click to expand...

One gallon ziplocs work just as well if not better. I always have 3-4 in my flight bag just in case.
 
The weather Sunday was not looking good due to some low clouds in the area. My wife and I went to the airport anyway, but I explained there was a very good chance we wouldn't be flying. There was still an IFR airmet and a low temp/dewpoint spread when we left for the airport, though the TAF was indicating the clouds would lift before our rental time. We did the full preflight together, I got to show her many of the aircraft systems, and we went through the full safety briefing. We didn't end up flying, as the weather was worse than forecast (few at 1300' and a low ceiling). She did say later it really looked like I knew what I was doing, so hopefully she isn't too nervous next time.

Thanks again for all the input and stories, I did read them all!

William Pete Hodges said:
I know you said in your first post you wanted to start on a kit plane in a couple of years. I think you should talk to some builders of kits before you do.
Click to expand...

I certainly thought about that, and joined EAA a month ago. Planning on going to a meeting tomorrow night to meet a chapter. I do really like the idea of just buying a certified plane, but it's hard to say when that will be possible. I really like the idea of building, even if it takes years to complete. Still exploring both options (and clubs/partnerships). First step is to see if the wife likes flying! That will really define the mission.

NHWannabe said:
One gallon ziplocs work just as well if not better. I always have 3-4 in my flight bag just in case.
Click to expand...

I realized this as soon as I got the sicsac delivery. Hopefully I will never need them, but going forward I'll just keep some ziplocks around.
 
JonL62021 said:
The weather Sunday was not looking good due to some low clouds in the area. My wife and I went to the airport anyway, but I explained there was a very good chance we wouldn't be flying. There was still an IFR airmet and a low temp/dewpoint spread when we left for the airport, though the TAF was indicating the clouds would lift before our rental time. We did the full preflight together, I got to show her many of the aircraft systems, and we went through the full safety briefing. We didn't end up flying, as the weather was worse than forecast (few at 1300' and a low ceiling). She did say later it really looked like I knew what I was doing, so hopefully she isn't too nervous next time.

Thanks again for all the input and stories, I did read them all!



I certainly thought about that, and joined EAA a month ago. Planning on going to a meeting tomorrow night to meet a chapter. I do really like the idea of just buying a certified plane, but it's hard to say when that will be possible. I really like the idea of building, even if it takes years to complete. Still exploring both options (and clubs/partnerships). First step is to see if the wife likes flying! That will really define the mission.



I realized this as soon as I got the sicsac delivery. Hopefully I will never need them, but going forward I'll just keep some ziplocks around.
Click to expand...
I'm thinking that the transparency of Ziplocks might increase the "yuck" factor after one has been used. :eek2:
 
Lots of great advice. Just add a couple - make sure to do a real passenger briefing, preferably from a checklist, and explain the doors. Explain the reasoning for "sterile cockpit" until you're out of the airport area for safety. Make sure to explain the doors. Suggest doing a downwind departure, no matter which way you're going. That way, if your passenger suddenly decides they REALLY don't like flying, and be sure to ask them on downwind, it's a simple and quick thing to come back in. Oh, and the bbq place in Keene is closed, which is sad, so you'll have to pick another spot if you want to fly for lunch.
 
JonL62021 said:
I do really like the idea of just buying a certified plane, but it's hard to say when that will be possible. I really like the idea of building, even if it takes years to complete.
Click to expand...

When you work out all the numbers building isn’t really any cheaper than buying. Even a Sonex is likely to be over $40k. A Zenith over $60k. And a Vans will easily be approaching if not over $100k

if you want to fly rather than build and like the homebuilt designs more than certified designs than look at used ones. They can be a pretty good bargain, especially some of the lesser known ones (ie. not a Vans).
 
I was the wife with the little kids when he got his PPL, and I myself had already flown and soloed before we met and I loved aviation myself, but I found it was different after becoming a mother. Suddenly I was much more cautious. I didn’t want him flying the kids until he had a few hundred hours, preferably his IR. Even me flying alone with him was risking my kids losing both parents at once. (Yes the same when we’re in a car, don’t get me started on road traffic.)

All the advice about being professional and knowing what you’re doing and being extra careful, and letting her keep veto power on a flight is spot on. That’s how to win her over, not pressuring her beyond her comfort zone. My husband was extremely conscientious about all of it, and was at the disadvantage of me knowing everything; there was no skipping a preflight checklist item that I wouldn’t spot. So maybe from that standpoint a regular uninitiated lay person might be easier.

Everything from big decisions to little ones he made on the side of safety, from individual flights to deciding to own instead of rent, keeping on top of all the repairs and maintenance proactively, and building hours and ratings. It all kept me trusting him and of course on our family trips I was right there as backup pilot and copilot-traffic-spotter.

It’s not exactly the same as a first time passenger in the sense that I was already accustomed to airplanes and turbulence and such, but I picked up on the OP’s having a two year old, and just speaking from the perspective of how I was as a wife with tiny one(s) when he first got certified.
 
With first time passengers, I tell them I will take off and ask them once airborne if they wish to return to base or continue on. I have never had anyone want to return to base. I brief my passengers thoroughly and tell them what I need from them (sterile cockpit on TO & LDG, primarily) and not to be alarmed by my talking to myself during those phases of flight. I announce all checklist items and touch various gauges so they can see what I'm talking about (except on the runway or approach).

My late wife did not want to go with me lest both parents perish in a tragedy. She did allow me to take all three kids up... once... though.

I'm surprised no one has suggested he not take his wife until he had his ATP rating... or at least several hundred hours. I used to feel that once you passed your check ride, you are as safe and competent as you can be at that time... Yes, you'll learn more as you continue... but you shouldn't have passed a check ride unless you were safe and competent.

Nowadays, folks don't know how to change a tire, or use a turn signal, or "zipper merge" and they all have driver's licenses. And I've heard horror stories about DPEs... So,I'm a little less confident in "the system." I'm so old, DPE's didn't exist when I got my ticket, and I had a GEN-U-INE FAA examiner....
 
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