new-to-me hundid dollah burger place

eman1200 said:
it's privately owned.
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Yea but there are a lot of privately owned airports that are closed to the public. Just seems like if they are that down on GA visitors, then just restrict it from GA, or like many of them, require prior permission to land there.
 
FlySince9 said:
So there’s the part that doesn’t make sense. 5W4 is PVT... so why open to the public if you don’t want GA traffic there?
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Beats me. It's privately owned but listed as open to public... but possibly hostile to the public. One area of the regs that I am not very sharp on are those relating to the benefits of listing your private airport as public use. There maybe benefits that I am unaware of that they want to take advantage of while still discouraging the actual public use. Charting? Frequency assignments? Maintaining the instrument approaches?
 
eman1200 said:
yup, that's another thing the jumper guys got snooty about. they said the freq is 123.5 and I said oh, they have 2 listed, sounds like one for "us" and the other for jumpers that we need to listen to and they were like NO it's 123.5. regardless, it's posted like you said so I was announcing on 123 and monitoring 123.5.
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They should change their AF/D. Do it like L65. The jump frequency is the CTAF. Makes sense at a place that is primarily a Jumpers airport
 
SkyDog58 said:
Beats me. It's privately owned but listed as open to public... but possibly hostile to the public. One area of the regs that I am not very sharp on are those relating to the benefits of listing your private airport as public use. There maybe benefits that I am unaware of that they want to take advantage of while still discouraging the actual public use. Charting? Frequency assignments? Maintaining the instrument approaches?
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They probably accepted some Federal Grant money.
 
Hank S said:
Wow, never heard of an airport discouraging pilots from flying in. So I guess I won't.

As for "new" restaurants, there was a fly-in fish camp in the area that I heard about when I lived in Laurinburg. Anybody know if it's still around? So many things disappeared during the 2008-11 recession, and despite my searching, there were no Flight Instructors at KMEB when I lived there and had time / money available (mid-90s).
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They might get a little revenue selling gas. Other than that, buying a meal and one O'douls weenie beer pales in comparison to the jumpers drinking the bar dry at the end of day.
 
luvflyin said:
They might get a little revenue selling gas. Other than that, buying a meal and one O'douls weenie beer pales in comparison to the jumpers drinking the bar dry at the end of day.
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It's 3 hours for me to reach FAY, so I'd buy fuel and pay overnight fees.

Besides, our last Southeast POA flyin sold 4 lunches! :p

P.S.--hangar rent and tie downs generate income and ongoing fuel purchases, too. The field I got my license at had jumpers, they hung out at the last hangar in the row while pilots hung out at the FBO. But we all watched the jumps, and they all watched student pilots solo. And we all spent money at the airport . . . .

Dodging them in the air is generally pretty easy and rarely took more than 2-3 minutes, a single standard rate 360 or a wide, long pattern to land.
 
Here's what ya do. Organize the fly in. Show up with hot chicks. Buy the chicks a jump lesson. You will be welcomed back and that evening you will probably get.............
 
luvflyin said:
Here's what ya do. Organize the fly in. Show up with hot chicks. Buy the chicks a jump lesson. You will be welcomed back and that evening you will probably get.............
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I like it! just show up in like 30 planes, fk 'em!
 
Hank S said:
It's 3 hours for me to reach FAY, so I'd buy fuel and pay overnight fees.

Besides, our last Southeast POA flyin sold 4 lunches! :p

P.S.--hangar rent and tie downs generate income and ongoing fuel purchases, too. The field I got my license at had jumpers, they hung out at the last hangar in the row while pilots hung out at the FBO. But we all watched the jumps, and they all watched student pilots solo. And we all spent money at the airport . . . .

Dodging them in the air is generally pretty easy and rarely took more than 2-3 minutes, a single standard rate 360 or a wide, long pattern to land.
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Yeah. I looked at the Sat pic and didn't see hangars or tiedowns. Then googled them. http://www.raeford-aviation.com/ These guys are about jumping. @eman1200 in their website they say "CTAF & Jump operations: 123.500." They need to change their AF/D entry.
 
luvflyin said:
Yeah. I looked at the Sat pic and didn't see hangars or tiedowns. Then googled them. http://www.raeford-aviation.com/ These guys are about jumping. @eman1200 in their website they say "CTAF & Jump operations: 123.500." They need to change their AF/D entry.
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agreed, since I can't imagine too many people are using "jumpers websites" as an official preflight planning source.
 
luvflyin said:
Yeah. I looked at the Sat pic and didn't see hangars or tiedowns. Then googled them. http://www.raeford-aviation.com/ These guys are about jumping. @eman1200 in their website they say "CTAF & Jump operations: 123.500." They need to change their AF/D entry.
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Or at least change their Chart Supplement. :p

But until they do, the Chart Supplement and the VFR Sectional and the two IFR approach plates all trump their personal website and is official per the FAA. They all list 123.0 as CTAF.
 
eman1200 said:
...and my recommendation to people would be to have a solid understanding of the airspace, not to just say "eff it, some guy on the internet said don't worry about it", that's just idiotic.
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Agree completely with the first part.

But must confess I didn't read Kelvin's posts quite the same way. Maybe I misinterpreted it, but I read his message more along the lines "It looks more intimidating than it really is, and don't let the chart scare you off".
 
GRG55 said:
Agree completely with the first part.

But must confess I didn't read Kelvin's posts quite the same way. Maybe I misinterpreted it, but I read his message more along the lines "It looks more intimidating than it really is, and don't let the chart scare you off".
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I'd agree with that fo sho.
 
eman1200 said:
agreed, since I can't imagine too many people are using "jumpers websites" as an official preflight planning source.
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Googling strange airports can be useful though. But yeah, they are dropping the ball by putting out that information but not updating their AF/D entry.
 
SkyDog58 said:
Or at least change their Chart Supplement. :p

But until they do, the Chart Supplement and the VFR Sectional and the two IFR approach plates all trump their personal website and is official per the FAA. They all list 123.0 as CTAF.
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Yup.
 
eman1200 said:
I'd agree with that fo sho.
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I wonder how they'd take to an Oshkosh style mass PoA arrival, drink all the booze, serenade them with some Celine, sell some fly by rides to the kids in @Radar Contact's 310, that sort of thang...:eek:
 
luvflyin said:
Googling strange airports can be useful though. But yeah, they are dropping the ball by putting out that information but not updating their AF/D entry.
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GRG55 said:
I wonder how they'd take to an Oshkosh style mass PoA arrival, drink all the booze, serenade them with some Celine, sell some fly by rides to the kids in @Radar Contact's 310, that sort of thang...:eek:
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basically I got excited when I heard of a "new" place to fly to to get food. then I did what luvflyin did (like I always do for a new airport) and google earth'd it. I was like DUDE, this place is huge and has a bar, it would be awesome if we could get a camping/drinking fly-in there! and then I went there and got totally shot down. so it was disappointing. but yeah, at this point I think a mass arrival is in order.
 
By the way, isn't 123.5 a special frequency normally used by balloons and gliders?

AIM 4-1-11 seems to state as much.
 
Hank S said:
Wow, never heard of an airport discouraging pilots from flying in. So I guess I won't.

As for "new" restaurants, there was a fly-in fish camp in the area that I heard about when I lived in Laurinburg. Anybody know if it's still around? So many things disappeared during the 2008-11 recession, and despite my searching, there were no Flight Instructors at KMEB when I lived there and had time / money available (mid-90s).
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The fly in fish camp is still in business and located just south of there.
https://generalaviationnews.com/2018/07/23/stantons-barbecue-looking-for-a-new-generation-of-pilots/.
I have never landed in Raeford but overflown the airport many times with no issues. As far as flying around Pope AFB and Fort Bragg, the folks at KFAY do a super job of keeping things in order around the MOAs. I have overflown KFAY before with no problems but they will keep you away from the restricted areas. I would rate those controllers as some of the best. When jumpers are in the air at KMEB you will hear a constant radio call on 122.8. The best CFI around is located in KLBT. He has a 152 and has done a couple of my biennial reviews. KLBT is right off of I-95 and catches at lot of the North/South traffic. Great fuel prices at KLBT. I am located just over the state line in South Carolina.
 
Personally, having flown at and around both jump’ports and glider’ports, I figure out who does what at that airport day in and day out, then I do that.

In this case 123.5 would be my main advisory freq because this is a jump’port and ‘everybody’ is on 123.5. Announcing crap on 123.0 is just talking to yourself.

One Comm? Say your business on 123.0 if you must, but then get on over to 123.5, say it again and LISTEN.

Meat rockets are one thing. Vertically diving turbine jump planes are another. You’ll generally only hear them on local approach control and 123.5. But you should definitely try to debrief the local jump pilot on her need to get on 123.0 each flight. Oh yeah.

I’ve spent 10 days with glider guiders doing 100 ops a day at public airports including 50 low passes per day and I can tell you few if any ever tuned in the local CTAF.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 
eman1200 said:
basically I got excited when I heard of a "new" place to fly to to get food. then I did what luvflyin did (like I always do for a new airport) and google earth'd it. I was like DUDE, this place is huge and has a bar, it would be awesome if we could get a camping/drinking fly-in there! and then I went there and got totally shot down. so it was disappointing. but yeah, at this point I think a mass arrival is in order.
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I thought I remembered this (I was a young boy at the time), so I checked and confirmed. Gene Paul Thacker was a former Golden Knight, and even after he left the Army, continued to train the Knights at his airport. That's why I saw the Knights at 5W4 a few times. Thacker passed in 2012 and left the operation to his son.

But long story short, yes, that airPARK (they named it that on purpose) was specifically built from day one for sky diving. That nice runway exists primarily for their jump planes. Folks in the parachuting community come from all over to jump in Raeford. It's very well known and quite famous. It's not just an "airport that does jump ops," it IS jump ops.

It's my understanding that, in addition to FAA/government assistance, there are definite benefits to going public. You'd have to ask someone else about that.
 
Stephen Poole said:
Born in Pinehurst, family lived in Raeford. Watched fireworks every 4th of July in either Aberdeen or Hope Mills. Where in Arabia? I lived on Arabia Road for while myself. (And yes, it was great fun to tell people "I'm from Arabia!") :)
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Remember the greenhouses? Right up from the store on the corner? On Golf Course Road...My dad bought that property from the guy who ran the greenhouses...200 or so acres...

Stephen Poole said:
As for Carolina Turf, my uncle started that. He's the original pilot of the family, took me for my first plane ride in that old J3. I haven't lived in that area for decades, so I'm going on memory, but I believe my cousin bases the aforementioned airplanes at his late father-in-law's private airstrip (I believe it's listed as Viking -- you can see it in Google Earth, little grass strip). Not far from 5W4.
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I just found it...never knew that was there....been over the turf farm a bazillion times though...
 
Kelvin said:
Remember the greenhouses? Right up from the store on the corner?
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Yep! Sure do. I lived on Arabia Road about halfway between Arabia and Raeford.

By the way, my cousin's late father in law, named Johnson, has/had something called the "Raeford North" airport (NC20). NOT Viking, as I said above. But the Johnson family's airstrip is very close to both Viking and 5W4. Just for the record, I was wrong.
 
Bill Watson said:
Personally, having flown at and around both jump’ports and glider’ports, I figure out who does what at that airport day in and day out, then I do that.

In this case 123.5 would be my main advisory freq because this is a jump’port and ‘everybody’ is on 123.5. Announcing crap on 123.0 is just talking to yourself.

One Comm? Say your business on 123.0 if you must, but then get on over to 123.5, say it again and LISTEN.

Meat rockets are one thing. Vertically diving turbine jump planes are another. You’ll generally only hear them on local approach control and 123.5. But you should definitely try to debrief the local jump pilot on her need to get on 123.0 each flight. Oh yeah.

I’ve spent 10 days with glider guiders doing 100 ops a day at public airports including 50 low passes per day and I can tell you few if any ever tuned in the local CTAF.
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But the only people who will be communicating on 123.5 are those who are ignoring official publications and instead going with a website. All official publications list CTAF as 123.0 and the Chart Supplement only states to monitor 123.5. No official pub says to communicate on 123.5.

Also, 123.5 does not appear to be authorized for jump operations by either the FCC or FAA.

FCC Reg:
47 CFR 87.323
(a) 121.500 MHz: Emergency and distress only.
(b) The frequencies 121.950, 123.300 and 123.500 MHz are available for assignment to aviation support stations used for pilot training, coordination of lighter-than-air aircraft operations, or coordination of soaring or free ballooning activities. Applicants for 121.950 MHz must coordinate their proposal with the appropriate FAA Regional Spectrum Management Office. The application must specify the FAA Region notified and the date notified. Applicants for aviation support land stations may request frequency(ies) based upon their eligibility although the Commission reserves the right to specify the frequency of assignment. Aviation support mobile stations will be assigned 123.300 and 123.500 MHz. However, aviation support mobile stations must operate only on a noninterference basis to communications between aircraft and aviation support land stations.

FAA AIM Table 4-1-3 says this about 123.3 & 123.5 - Aviation instruction, Glider, Hot Air Balloon (not to be used for advisory service).

So it seems unlikely that 123.5 is intended or authorized for jump operations.

I also looked at several airports around the country that host major skydive operations and none of them use a separate frequency from CTAF for jump ops and none use 123.5. So it appears that Raeford might possibly be a bit rogue.
 
They climb around the boneyard a bit at the end of this video:
 
I have flown in and had lunch there. They really don’t want a lot of GA business. They don’t mind a few aircraft now and then. The food was below average for even a airport place. I see no real reason to go there when BQ1 is not far away with great food and arms wide open for GA.
 
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