New Sling high wing Tsi

Cluemeister

Cluemeister

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Cluemeister
7EDCC4BE-607D-402B-BE18-6F004C8DD8FE.jpeg The Airplane factory announced they are developing a high wing Tsi. Four seats,Rotax 915. Hoping to have one at Oshkosh next year. They had a small model to show. Thoughts?
 
They all look good on paper, like to see the final product.
 
Wow, this is EXACTLY what we're looking for as our next kit, assuming it is as fast as the current TSI. Looking at Sling's track record, I'm very confident that they will not only get it done but that it will be a great plane and a high quality kit.

I'm sure this will sell like hot cake, lots of people want a fast, experimental, 4-seat high wing!
 
German guy said:
Wow, this is EXACTLY what we're looking for as our next kit, assuming it is as fast as the current TSI. Looking at Sling's track record, I'm very confident that they will not only get it done but that it will be a great plane and a high quality kit.

I'm sure this will sell like hot cake, lots of people want a fast, experimental, 4-seat high wing!
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Mike Blyth said that it was going to be 2-3 knots slower. That could be 2-3 or 6-8.

They have 215 employees, including 15 in design. They do have a track record of delivering.

I think it’s going to fill a hole in the market. 150 true at elevation, fuel injected turbo four seater.

Carbon fiber body, metal wings.
 
Cluemeister said:
Thoughts?
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The bulbous front windscreen looks funny. Also, the ugly wheelpants could probably be fixed by switching to a castering nosewheel like the one in your avatar.

I wonder if there will be a difference in useful load?
 
TW version and I'd probably buy one. That or I just take a beating and build a Glasair Sportsman.
 
Cluemeister said:
Mike Blyth said that it was going to be 2-3 knots slower. That could be 2-3 or 6-8.
[...]
I think it’s going to fill a hole in the market. 150 true at elevation, fuel injected turbo four seater.
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150 kts would still be great and about as fast as our Mooney! They advertise the TSI with a cruise speed of 155kts up high, in reality it however cruises at +160kts!

Frankly, this is the plane I was hoping to see from Van‘s: Easy to build, pulled rivet, relatively fast, high wing, 4-seater. Pretty much an all metal, less expensive Glasair Sportsman!
 
German guy said:
150 kts would still be great and about as fast as our Mooney! They advertise the TSI with a cruise speed of 155kts up high, in reality it however cruises at +160kts!

Frankly, this is the plane I was hoping to see from Van‘s: Easy to build, pulled rivet, relatively fast, high wing, 4-seater. Pretty much an all metal, less expensive Glasair Sportsman!
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Yeah. There was a void created when Cessna quit making Cardinals. They are very desired now and there aren’t enough around to supply demand at reasonable prices
 
luvflyin said:
Yeah. There was a void created when Cessna quit making Cardinals. They are very desired now and there aren’t enough around to supply demand at reasonable prices
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I was really surprised by how many really pretty Cardinal RGs were at OSH this year. Good to know they are still out there...
 
luvflyin said:
Rumor has it that maybe you can’t. @cgrab said in another thread you can’t build them anymore. I found this https://generalaviationnews.com/2017/05/03/glasair-sportsman-to-be-certified/

Glasair isn’t saying anything about it https://glasairaviation.com/
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I spoke with them at Sun‘n‘Fun, things might have changed since then: The certified Sportsman will be offered in parallel to the the two weeks to taxi program. Also, if somebody only wants to buy the kit, „they‘ll work it out“, even though they are not actively promoting this path anymore.

I think the Sportsman is the perfect all around plane for many pilots: Reasonably fast but still capable of landing on shorter / rougher strips plus enough space / useful load for two adult with tons of luggage or the occasional additional passenger.

Looking at the high prices of older Cessnas, particularly 180s and 182s, I am still puzzled that so far only Glasair has been selling an experimental with a similar profile.
For some reason everybody else seems to think that the world is waiting for more LSA with a very limited utility.

I really hope that the Sling will be a lower cost alternative to the Sportsman!
 
German guy said:
I spoke with them at Sun‘n‘Fun, things might have changed since then: The certified Sportsman will be offered in parallel to the the two weeks to taxi program. Also, if somebody only wants to buy the kit, „they‘ll work it out“, even though they are not actively promoting this path anymore.

I think the Sportsman is the perfect all around plane for many pilots: Reasonably fast but still capable of landing on shorter / rougher strips plus enough space / useful load for two adult with tons of luggage or the occasional additional passenger.

Looking at the high prices of older Cessnas, particularly 180s and 182s, I am still puzzled that so far only Glasair has been selling an experimental with a similar profile.
For some reason everybody else seems to think that the world is waiting for more LSA with a very limited utility.

I really hope that the Sling will be a lower cost alternative to the Sportsman!
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Did they give you an estimate of what the Certified one would cost?
 
German guy said:
I spoke with them at Sun‘n‘Fun, things might have changed since then: The certified Sportsman will be offered in parallel to the the two weeks to taxi program. Also, if somebody only wants to buy the kit, „they‘ll work it out“, even though they are not actively promoting this path anymore.

I think the Sportsman is the perfect all around plane for many pilots: Reasonably fast but still capable of landing on shorter / rougher strips plus enough space / useful load for two adult with tons of luggage or the occasional additional passenger.

Looking at the high prices of older Cessnas, particularly 180s and 182s, I am still puzzled that so far only Glasair has been selling an experimental with a similar profile.
For some reason everybody else seems to think that the world is waiting for more LSA with a very limited utility.

I really hope that the Sling will be a lower cost alternative to the Sportsman!
Click to expand...


I am just waiting for the FAA to up the Light Sport limits to levels which would include planes like Sling TSi - I am not much of a builder and Light Sport category is the only way to get a non-certified , factory build plane - best of both world.
 
I want something for grass strips with decent cruise. I don't need supercub distances. Since I procreated the RV7 path doesn't make sense for me anymore. This could make a lot of sense. I was thinking 180 but maybe this is the ticket. I'll email them and ask about a tw version like with their two seater.
 
luvflyin said:
Did they give you an estimate of what the Certified one would cost?
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No, but I also didn’t ask as I’m not interested in the certified version.
The two weeks to taxi program would be awesome, but still a bit too pricey for us. For a nicely painted, IFR Sportsman we’d have to budget for +$250k!
 
I really like the Slings. I sat in the TSI and it was about what I expected. Comfortable seats, lots of leg room, lacking in elbow room on the outside side (seats are snug against the outside wall). I expect the high wing version will be same in that respect.

Thoughts on this one: I think there is definitely a market for a high wing 4-place travel machine that no one seems to be too interested in servicing. So in that sense I think they'll do well with it. Although I like that the Rotax engines prefer gasoline, hauling a bunch of 5-gal cans to the airport every time you fly seems like it could get to be a bit of a pain. Hauling a bunch of 5-gal cans and then having to hoist them up a ladder to get them in the plane even more so.

I haven't seen it stated but I assume the parachute will be offered. I also assume that like the TSI, you're looking at $200k or a bit more before you're done.

One thing that would make me nervous about this and/or the TSI is the engine. Rotax has a very proven track record with the 9xx series and I trust them as a company. But the 915 is still very new with zero examples in the field that have reached TBO yet. That doesn't mean they won't reach TBO, but the fact remains that none currently have so TBO it still a theory more than an established track record for that motor. And that is a little concerning because in the words of Mike Blyth, no alternative engine exists for the TSI. The TSI and I assume the high wing as well, were designed from the ground up to use the 915 and there simply are no other engines available that can make the required power without being too heavy for the airplane. Which means if anything catastrophic happens that causes the 915 to no longer be available (XP400 anyone?), then these airframes will become very expensive lawn ornaments.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
I really like the Slings. I sat in the TSI and it was about what I expected. Comfortable seats, lots of leg room, lacking in elbow room on the outside side (seats are snug against the outside wall). I expect the high wing version will be same in that respect.
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That's my number 1 complaint with my Arrow. Absolutely ruins the cabin for me, whereas my family is otherwise pretty content in the back, go figure. But, considering ratted out 172s are going for more in 2019 than what I got in it, it'll just have to do. :D

The -32 series supposedly came with wider seats, and the seat frames are s-shaped offset away from the sidewall, creating wall elbow room. Problem is when you purposely handicap an airplane at 41.5" to spare the comanche sales, you can't really do that with the seats. You'd have to bow out the fuselage, which is essentially how the cardinal gets the famed extra inches (the floorboard is just as narrow as the competition). I digress.

Agreed on the experimental side. They just don't do sub-100k price point 4-seaters. It's either RV-10 or go back to BOHICA certified pita antiquing. I'd love an experimental Tecnam P2010 equivalent (that thing needs an IO-540 though, it's underpowered as currently offered, for my taste). Alas, for what they're asking I could just buy a stupid G1 Cirrus in the first place and add a .2 on account of a rosary before every takeoff behind that Conti.

I'm just gonna limp this thing until the kid decides he's too cool to hang out with dad (or the economy tanks sufficiently to steal the upgrade), then this Marielito will swim to the amnesty of 2-seater acro e-ab lol. :D

I'm still rooting for these things. I want as many of them made as possible. Hell, a dream of mine would be the removal of the 51% rule, ever since they killed primary non-commercial especially. Certified aviation is going to the trash heap on the economics front for me; EAB is gonna be the only respite for my generation when my gen becomes middle aged in the aggregate.
 
At the announcement, I heard James Pittman say that a tailwheel would be offered as well. They did not say where the pricing was going to fall for the high wing.
 
German guy said:
I think the Sportsman is the perfect all around plane for many pilots:
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This plane was on my short list, but wife didn't like the interior. Plus, although they say 150 knots, I couldn't find one owner who said they were getting 150 knots in a Sportsman.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
...lacking in elbow room on the outside side (seats are snug against the outside wall). I expect the high wing version will be same in that respect.
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Not if the side windows pop open like a Cessna.

Also, the sides probably won't slope inward near the top of the cabin like a low wing.
 
asicer said:
Not if the side windows pop open like a Cessna.

Also, the sides probably won't slope inward near the top of the cabin like a low wing.
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Its not a bush plane, its go fast plane. Go fast planes usually don't have windows that pop open.

Its true that the cabins lots of low wing planes do slope inward toward the top. But your elbows ride well below that point for most airplanes including the TSI. I could see ending up with an inch or two more width at elbow height depending on how they design the doors. But they would have to specifically design the doors for that. Mike Blithe and most of the other principals at TAF are on the long and skinny side so I would suspect they feel the cabin width is just fine the way it is. Time will tell.
 
For the price I was quoted for the Sling 4 seat 915 IS ( 56k plus engine/avionics ), I sure am interested if I can find the funds and time to make it work. With assistance from a shop in New York, I was quoted roughly 6 months from receiving the kit to when it would be complete, not bad at all.
 
Flymeariver said:
For the price I was quoted for the Sling 4 seat 915 IS ( 56k plus engine/avionics ), I sure am interested if I can find the funds and time to make it work. With assistance from a shop in New York, I was quoted roughly 6 months from receiving the kit to when it would be complete, not bad at all.
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Engine and avionics should be around $85k. Add the kit itself and you're looking at $141k. But if you're going to do the builder assist, I think you're going to add another $60-80K to that number.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
Engine and avionics should be around $85k. Add the kit itself and you're looking at $141k. But if you're going to do the builder assist, I think you're going to add another $60-80K to that number.
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Yep that’s about what they showed at OSH. Overall not too bad, especially for 155kts @7gph. Then again—my wife holds the wallet. :eek:
 
Flymeariver said:
Overall not too bad, especially for 155kts @7gph
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...and considering that this will be a brand spanking new aircraft with the latest and greatest avionics. Costs for maintenance and particularly possibly future upgrades are also significantly cheaper for an EAB than a certified aircraft.
 
German guy said:
...and considering that this will be a brand spanking new aircraft with the latest and greatest avionics. Costs for maintenance and particularly possibly future upgrades are also significantly cheaper for an EAB than a certified aircraft.
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What's most attractive to me is the parts support landscape/legal framework. It's just a time bomb on the certified side for the older non-trainer traveling airplane type fleet out there, whereas on EAB you can exercise a lot more flexibility and not have the kiss the ring BS endemic to parts sourcing skittishness from the guy who is signing the work off, or worse, AOG city with no NOS available and the OEMs unwilling to release the data because they very much want the things dead full stop (Textron I'm looking at you).

Of course, the opportunity cost is amortizing the acquisition premium. These things are still pretty up there on the CAPEX front, especially for the non-builder. No free lunch in life.
 
Juliet Hotel said:
Its not a bush plane, its go fast plane. Go fast planes usually don't have windows that pop open.

Its true that the cabins lots of low wing planes do slope inward toward the top. But your elbows ride well below that point for most airplanes including the TSI. I could see ending up with an inch or two more width at elbow height depending on how they design the doors. But they would have to specifically design the doors for that. Mike Blithe and most of the other principals at TAF are on the long and skinny side so I would suspect they feel the cabin width is just fine the way it is. Time will tell.
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I guess it depends on your definition of "long and skinny". I met Mike briefly at the Livermore AOPA fly in. He is thin, but I'm at least 6" taller than him, so he's right around FAA standard pilot size.

Maybe the High Wing model will have a bit more head room. I have a 6'6'' guy's torso, and w/o a headset, my head rubbed the top of the cabin, even w/o a headset. I'm not the first tall guy who's interested, so maybe they'll accommodate us taller guys.

Edit:
The Sportsman Kit (homebuilt, and factory assist) is still available. Lots of options on engines, propellers, avionics, etc. are available. Easy to get way north of $250K.

Mike says you can extend the seat rails back, and get more headroom. I've corresponded with a builder who's doing that. I might check up on him in a few years to see how that worked out. If it works for him, it should work for me, because he's significantly taller than I am.

The High Wing fuselage is supposed to be lighter and stronger, because it's made of carbon fiber, and also wider, because I'd bet they are getting feedback on the Tsi.

I wouldn't want to be an early builder of the HW Tsi. I looked at a few of the Tsi builder pages, and they are reporting errors in the construction manuals and drawings. Nothing that can't be worked out, but after you make it according to their manual, find out it's wrong, unmake it, then make it right, you've tripled your build time for that component.

A build center link: https://www.customaircraftbuilders.com/learning-center/
 
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From their today's newsletter:

[...] We are, of course, gearing up to send James and Matt Cohen over the Atlantic via St Helena Island in the tricycle gear version of the Prototype Sling High Wing. James, being an avid taildragger pilot, wants to take the second prototype which is a taildragger, but we have managed to convince him it makes more commercial sense to take the tricycle. There is plenty of time for you to go on adventures in ZU-TDR James!

The planned departure date is the 12th of July to arrive by the 26th of July for the first day of the show. The plan was then to fly on to the UK through Greenland and Iceland for the Sywell Rally, but it looks like that has been cancelled for this year. Who knows, James might continue on the route anyway after Osh. [...]

So, there will also be a taildragger version.

I love how they introduce all of their new aircraft with an Atlantic crossing!
For us, this would be the perfect aircraft! I might first have to rob a few banks, though. ;)
I've seen an older price list: Fully IFR equipped, painted, with chute and builder's assist it was around $315k, QB but without builder's assist $75k less.
 
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