New Pilot, Trip over the Appalachian Mountains.

Kenny Lee

Kenny Lee

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West Tennessee
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Kenny Lee
Hey guys. Ya’ll may think this thread dumb, but I know enough to be concerned. I am based in Union City Tn (KUCY) with friends in Hickory NC (KHKY). I plan to fly there and visit. I know the Appalachians aren’t the Rockys, but remember I am a flat lander. I have high water marks on my ankles. I have never flown over the mountains.

A direct route would put me over Nashville and Knoxville airspace. I can easily divert North or South of those airspaces. Or would you simple fly over them? Knoxville ceiling is 5,000 and Nashville is 4600.

What about the typical weather over the mountains? I have visited there and seen plenty of clouds. Is there a better time of day to cross? Does the weather patterns change in the mountains quicker than the flat lands? Winds stronger? Turbulence worse? I would appreciate any feed back as I plan this trip. No date yet.
 
2500' terrain clearance to be safe. Dont try and squeeze between a cloud and the peaks. I've crossed it a few times, not really an issue if you follow those two pointers. (Someone will probably chime in with a 30 point checklist on crossing them, though.)

Edit: oh and approach ridges from the leeward side at a 45 degree angle. (Horiz not vert)
 
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There is typically a window of weather opportunity: this time of year valleys tend to be fogged in until late AM (and valleys are generally where airports are) and then clouds tend to form above ridges early to mid afternoon. I try to get out as soon as fog clears.
I have no problem overflying airspaces......as a matter of fact keeping within glide distance of airports is always a good idea.
Strongly recommend Flight Following.
Your route dictates a cruise altitude of 7500 until approaching KMRN.
 
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6.5M would keep you above Nashville and Knoxville airspace. From Knoxville follow I40 down to Ashville and then to Hickory. That'll keep you clear of the higher terrain and give you options for flight following and emergency landing options.

Go in the morning or evening to avoid most of the turbulence. I'd wait it out if winds aloft at mountain top level are greater than 25 kts to minimize chance of mountain wave and stronger turbulence.

Most of your route and both start and destination fields look fairly benign. The only exposure to mountains is between Knoxville and Ashville. Get high (maybe 8.5), avoid the afternoon, and you'll be fine. Flatland to flatland with mountains inbetween is a perfect start to trying out the mountains.
 
Look for fronts as well. For instance this Tuesday there is a cold front coming in just north of Hickory.
 
All good advice here. For a new pilot, wait for a good high pressure day, and cross when it's clear, the earlier the better. No harm in being at 9,500' either.
 
Thanks for all the responses. Will be a great help. I found the Mount Mitchell on the sectional. Drove up there once in the fall. Wind was blowing up the mountain and freezing in early fall!
 
I haven't flown east of Gatlinburg so have no advice for crossing the Smokies, but being local to Nashville I can say that if you're getting flight following they'll usually let you cross right over the top of the field going east/west at or above 4500. BNA controllers are a pretty friendly bunch.
 
Yes, flight following is something I haven’t done yet but really need to.
 
Lots of good advice!

Here are a few additional things to consider.
1-You might spend some time choosing your route to look for passes and lower terrain. Frequently, a few miles deviation can give you a route that can be flown at a much lower altitude.

2-Mountains can climb faster than airplanes so don't just blithely follow roads.

3-Invest some time learning how to lean your engine too.

4-MEAs can be extremely high requiring supplemental oxygen. Terrain clearance over terrain that is higher than 4,999 feet increases to 2,000 feet. It only takes one peak to drive the MEA of an airway well over 10,000 feet.

5-Research the FBOs at airports you plan to use or might be alternates. Be sure to ask their times of operation and security protocols. As an example KCNM (Cavern City Airport, Carlsbad, NM) is a nice old USAAC base but can be challenging for transients. Their hours of operation were limited and the only FBO charged $50.00 to open outside of their normal hours! This included picking up a rental car from them. At the time I was there access to the ramp was not a problem though. But KROW (Roswell Industrial Airport, Roswell, yes that one, NM id the FBO was closed you could leave the ramp but the gate locked behind you. Be aware you may not be able to stop for gas then easily or timely continue on.

Have fun, be safe!
 
jonvcaples said:
Lots of good advice!

Here are a few additional things to consider.
1-You might spend some time choosing your route to look for passes and lower terrain. Frequently, a few miles deviation can give you a route that can be flown at a much lower altitude.

2-Mountains can climb faster than airplanes so don't just blithely follow roads.

3-Invest some time learning how to lean your engine too.

4-MEAs can be extremely high requiring supplemental oxygen. Terrain clearance over terrain that is higher than 4,999 feet increases to 2,000 feet. It only takes one peak to drive the MEA of an airway well over 10,000 feet.

5-Research the FBOs at airports you plan to use or might be alternates. Be sure to ask their times of operation and security protocols. As an example KCNM (Cavern City Airport, Carlsbad, NM) is a nice old USAAC base but can be challenging for transients. Their hours of operation were limited and the only FBO charged $50.00 to open outside of their normal hours! This included picking up a rental car from them. At the time I was there access to the ramp was not a problem though. But KROW (Roswell Industrial Airport, Roswell, yes that one, NM id the FBO was closed you could leave the ramp but the gate locked behind you. Be aware you may not be able to stop for gas then easily or timely continue on.

Have fun, be safe!
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Did you even read the original post? I don’t know what you are responding to, but it isn’t the OP.
 
Mountains are mountains and should always be approached with caution. As a CAP SAR pilot my log books have several hundred hours spent looking for pilots who thought weather and or terrain could be ignored. And found out the hard way they were wrong.

I do get a little wordy at times. Part of this is just me and part of it is the desire to pass on information that might be of value later...thus the information about MEAs.
 
Go high. The bad part about that route is you end up over an area my friend calls "North Korea," an inhospitable area for emergency landings.

There's a whole lot of difference in going over the Appalachians at 7500 or whatever whic most aircraft don't have a problem with than trying to cross the Rockies at an altitude close to your service ceiling.

Now if you were intending to stop at or fly through the valleys/ridges, then some training might be warranted.

HKY's a nice little airport. Tower's friendly. Self server fuel is cheap and the FBO is nice.
 
Ok EppyGA who is Ron Levy?

Where is Houchton? I grew up in Brunswick over on the coast.
 
jonvcaples said:
Mountains are mountains and should always be approached with caution. As a CAP SAR pilot my log books have several hundred hours spent looking for pilots who thought weather and or terrain could be ignored. And found out the hard way they were wrong.

I do get a little wordy at times. Part of this is just me and part of it is the desire to pass on information that might be of value later...thus the information about MEAs.
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Why settle for safe and adequate when extreme overkill is an option?
 
I live in Southeast Tennessee and have crossed the Appalachia’s on several different occasions. They’re really nothing to get wigged out over, so I wouldn’t overthink it or play into the drama that some here create over nothing. These aren’t the Rockies and you don’t need any supplemental oxygen. Of course, there’s not many ‘outs’ so just know which options you do have at the location you choose to cross-over.

9,500’ is fine going east and by all regards, 8,500’ can be done going west.

Have fun!
 
The fall is a great time to fly over the Appalachians. In general, the weather is warm, dry, and relatively calm.

If you're above the hills and it is windy out, you'll get bumped around. So avoid those days. Otherwise, I'd go high and talk to FF if you like. Going over Nashvegas and/or Knoxville is no big deal. If you're above their airspace, you don't need to talk with them unless you want to.
 
Hope the OP hasn’t gotten disillusioned or disgusted with all this.....to him/her I say just use what you have been taught and know now, and go fly to HKY....you’ll do fine and have a great time.
 
Just watch your cloud clearances like any other flight and get as high above the terrain as practical, 2500 over the highest peak is a good minimum but I'd go higher if possible. Early morning will be best. Really just take a good look at your route and weather beforehand and know what you're doing. It shouldn't be a whole lot different than any other flight- I'm also a flatlander and I've been across the Appalachians and the Rockies(to the south where it's lower).

7,500 will clear anything in that range I believe. Remember you can go all the way up to 12,500(pressure alt) without O2 if you need to. Last time I crossed I was VFR still and I went to 12,500 over a scattered layer(better above the layer than trying to squeeze between the clouds and the peaks). Also remember that METARS is reporting the altitude of the clouds above the reporting station, best to convert that AGL to MSL in your mind and get a good mental picture of where the clouds are relative to the peaks as well.
 
Some good advice here and there. I'll just say from flying my plane down that way and getting beat up on a commercial flight (flight attendant pasted to the ceiling momentarily) that flying to the lee of the mountains in post frontal weather can be a wild and potentially dangerous ride.

Otherwise, choose a nice weather day, stay well clear of terrain, and choose a route with some outs and enjoy the trip. Radar advisories from ATC is a good idea, too. In decent weather it should be a fun non-event.
 
Howdy! I live in Southeast TN, just outside of Chattanooga. I usually fly east over the Appalachians a good bit. BUT, I am a VFR only pilot currently, so when I am flying over them, I am usually going in really nice weather. Treat them with respect and give about 2000 or 2500 foot over the tallest point in your flight plan and keep an eye on the weather and you'll be good. When you start crossing them, and things don't look like you want, you can easily turn back west and find lots of friendly airports to land at until conditions improve.

BUT, if I dont want to fly over the mountains, I will usually fly south a little bit and go around the south part, and head back north on the eastern side of the chains. NELLO is usually the waypoint I am planning if I want to avoid them. But, if you don't have a GPS just shoot plan for KCNI airport and then turn toward Hickory. Something like this should work pretty nicely: https://plan.foreflight.com/share/accept/01b8f7kYayEJ4T1q3n

Or skyvector: https://skyvector.com/?ll=35.70726950694083,-85.95629882228677&chart=301&zoom=6&fpl= KUCY KCNI KHKY

That's only gonna add about 20 - 30 minutes to your trip. It also makes for some really gorgeous flying when you are on the eastern side of the mountains. That route could safely be done about 5500 feet or 6500. Just be watchful about descending into Hickory, as its a little "hilly" around there :)

Doing the joggle down to KCNI keeps you away from all the Class C airspaces, but I still highly recommend getting Flight Following. The controllers along that route are all super nice and they all appreciate VFR guys getting flight following with them, as it makes their jobs a little easier because they can ask you to help with separation for the jets landing at KCHA and KTYS and even Ashville.
 
Thanks for all the responses. I figured there would be drama so no big deal. Just to give a bit more information on myself. I only got my PPL last Wednesday. I am flying an A36 which I just bought August 5th. It does have GPS, a Garmin 750.

Decided wife and myself would fly to Dalton Ga the same day I got my license. Was going to fly at 5500 but clouds were at 5,000. They weren’t solid but not very broken. So I flew at 3500. Before getting to Dalton rain and weather moved in ahead of me. Was easily seen. I could see the peaks as I neared Chattanooga area. The distance between the clouds and the peaks didn’t look like much. Figured I could have gotten over the clouds. But, I spent my entire flying life flying UNDER the clouds. Will the clouds close in under me? Will I find the tops before needing oxygen? We were only going to Dalton to eat at Chilis. I decided i didn’t want to get into trouble the same day I got my license so I did a 180. There is a saying..A PPL is a license to learn. I need to gain this experience. I need to get used to FF. A little over 100 hours under my belt. I intend to gently ease into these things. I am not scared but I do respect it. Only two things I am scared of is my wife and the police.

Lynn Dixon. I had wondered about that route. That is an option if the cloud cover is bad. Thanks
 
You definitely do not want to try to stay under low clouds and cross the mountains. If there isn’t blue sky you want to be above the clouds during the mountain crossings. Don’t keep pushing it and hoping the clouds won’t get any lower. That’s how a new pilot gets themselves dead. That doesn’t mean you can’t be below clouds, but honestly with a brand new certificate, I’d take that trip no lower than 8,500 and I’d only do it on a nice day. There’s a peak along that direct route as high as 6,650.

I’d also do what someone said above and not go direct. Going via k7A8 reduces your highest point to 5,500. And, as a brand new pilot I still wouldn’t cross below 8,500 on a nice day.
 
Salty said:
You definitely do not want to try to stay under low clouds and cross the mountains. If there isn’t blue sky you want to be above the clouds during the mountain crossings. Don’t keep pushing it and hoping the clouds won’t get any lower. That’s how a new pilot gets themselves dead. That doesn’t mean you can’t be below clouds, but honestly with a brand new certificate, I’d take that trip no lower than 8,500 and I’d only do it on a nice day. There’s a peak along that direct route as high as 6,650.

I’d also do what someone said above and not go direct. Going via k7A8 reduces your highest point to 5,500. And, as a brand new pilot I still wouldn’t cross below 8,500 on a nice day.
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This. A lot this - at least for a new pilot.
 
Not much to the smokies. I routinely cross between 8.5 and 11.5 right over mount Mitchell and don’t recall ever feeling more than a slight giggle. I’m sure if you are lower or just putzing around it could get bumpy. Coming east just fly over them at 9.5 and you will have no trouble at all.

Mid morning or late afternoon are the best crossing times. Morning valley fog takes away every possible landing spot and mid day buildups often extend from just above the peaks to 10-15k or more.
 
Salty said:
You definitely do not want to try to stay under low clouds and cross the mountains. If there isn’t blue sky you want to be above the clouds during the mountain crossings. Don’t keep pushing it and hoping the clouds won’t get any lower. That’s how a new pilot gets themselves dead. That doesn’t mean you can’t be below clouds, but honestly with a brand new certificate, I’d take that trip no lower than 8,500 and I’d only do it on a nice day. There’s a peak along that direct route as high as 6,650.

I’d also do what someone said above and not go direct. Going via k7A8 reduces your highest point to 5,500. And, as a brand new pilot I still wouldn’t cross below 8,500 on a nice day.
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Very good advice. Mountains and marginal weather is a bad combination. Even IFR can be problematic with regards to ice unless you can get above the cloud tops.
 
Leaving the mountainous area flying part alone for this post,... you've already received some great advice, and I don't have much to add nor much additional experience there other than the Adirondaks and some hills in Vermont.

What struck me was the post where you, @Kenny Lee , said that you had never used flight following despite already having 100 hours already. I was fortunate...did probably the first 20 hours, including solo endoresement and first solo flights, out of a class C airport, so talking to ATC folks felt like the norm. If anything, it took me a while to feel comfortable WITHOUT having controllers to talk to and help with advisories. I'm sure your training included operations in controlled airspace and you can function safely in those situations, but I'd recommend you make it a point to pick up flight following whenever possible if, at least right now, it doesn't feel like a comfortable or routine thing to do. It's a tremendously helpful resource and safety tool, and virtually every controller on the other end of the mic has been great to me when I make the request.
 
Rgbeard said:
Not to derail... But, I'll ask. How does one get a PPL and not do flight following during the curriculum?
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Unless something has changed since 2017, it's not hard to do. I got it once during my ppl training just to see how it worked, but it wasn't a requirement
 
Rgbeard said:
Not to derail... But, I'll ask. How does one get a PPL and not do flight following during the curriculum?
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I only did it once, and that was on my night cross country.
 
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