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Grapeshot

Grapeshot

Filing Flight Plan
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Dec 28, 2020
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Grapeshot
Just wanted to introduce myself. New member, just starting my journey to getting my license. Interested in fixed wing and gyroplanes, trying to find a beginner-friendly place to ask questions and learn.
 
Welcome to the "jungle" Grapeshot.
Don't feed the wild animals. :D

What are you working on? Private Pilot?
 
Hey! Welcome aboard!
 
Just starting out. Tried to do this 40 years ago and ran out of money. I'm semi-retired now and thought I'd go for it again. Took a discovery flight in a Cavalon gyroplane last month and that kinda got me thinking about it again. Currently taking ground school on-line (Sporty's). Looking for a good local flight school (I'm in central NJ). Will certainly start with fixed-wing and see where that takes me. I'm thinking I want Private Pilot (even though Sport seems faster).
 
Grapeshot said:
Just starting out. Tried to do this 40 years ago and ran out of money. I'm semi-retired now and thought I'd go for it again. Took a discovery flight in a Cavalon gyroplane last month and that kinda got me thinking about it again. Currently taking ground school on-line (Sporty's). Looking for a good local flight school (I'm in central NJ). Will certainly start with fixed-wing and see where that takes me. I'm thinking I want Private Pilot (even though Sport seems faster).
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Welcome,


FYI
Private pilot needs a medical. Alcohol (dui's), mental health issues, ADHD, illegal drug issues, heart issues can derail the medical. I don't think you need a medical for a gyrocopter however.
 
Welcome to POA. Have you cleared this with the wife? ;)

Just kidding ...
 
Welcome to POA! Ignore the wisecrackers.

Actually, is that an oxymoron? A wise cracker?
 
Grapeshot said:
Just starting out. Tried to do this 40 years ago and ran out of money. I'm semi-retired now and thought I'd go for it again. Took a discovery flight in a Cavalon gyroplane last month and that kinda got me thinking about it again. Currently taking ground school on-line (Sporty's). Looking for a good local flight school (I'm in central NJ). Will certainly start with fixed-wing and see where that takes me. I'm thinking I want Private Pilot (even though Sport seems faster).
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Congrats on taking the dive. I'm in Central NJ and have instructed and flow from a few places. If you need help making a decision I'd be happy to help.
 
PaulS said:
Welcome,


FYI
Private pilot needs a medical. Alcohol (dui's), mental health issues, ADHD, illegal drug issues, heart issues can derail the medical. I don't think you need a medical for a gyrocopter however.
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Alcohol, mental health (other than wanting to learn to fly), drugs, etc. shouldn't be a problem. Eyesight, well, maybe... Any color blindness requirements?
 
Grapeshot said:
Any color blindness requirements?
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Nice to meet you! I'm new here myself (I've been lurking for a while though)...

Color blindness is checked for during a FAA medical exam, so, yeah, it's something to investigate. It seems like testing for color blindness has multiple test type options, so that's good.

A medical certificate is required to fly as a private pilot. Check out these links for some color FAA related color blindness information:
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/tell-me-theres-hope.121621/#post-2868217
https://www.aopa.org/go-fly/medical-resources/health-conditions/vision/color-restriction-removal

FYI, FAA Medical regulations can be...err...ARE very frustrating, and you really don't want to have the doctor defer your medical making you have to convince the FAA that you are OK (I've BTDT, and it's no fun).

If you are unsure if you can pass the medical for color blindness (or other things), you should consider visiting an AME (Aviation Medical Examiner) for a consultation before you formally apply for a medical certificate from the FAA so that you know you will pass before submitting to the exam. The consult is worth the cost.

Sadly, failing a FAA medical can prevent you from getting a rating that doesn't require a medical certificate (Sport Pilot, for example). And, yes, FAA medical regulations are like this. o_O

I hope this helps!
 
Cool avatar, welcome to PoA.
 
Welcome to PoA. Go for it and get your license. If you go 5 times a week you can get it in 1-2 months. Get your study material for the written.
 
Grapeshot said:
Eyesight, well, maybe... Any color blindness requirements?
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Depends on to what degree you may have a color issue. I fail the plate test 100% of the time, but I pass just about any other color test. Had a Navy Class 1 at one point and currently have an FAA 2nd Class. There are a bunch of alternative tests you can take if you don't pass the plate test.
 
Grapeshot said:
Just wanted to introduce myself. New member, just starting my journey to getting my license. Interested in fixed wing and gyroplanes, trying to find a beginner-friendly place to ask questions and learn.
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Welcome to the POA forum. Good luck on the PPL, and hope you update on your progress.
 
Thanks for the feedback. I have my annual eye doc appointment in a few weeks; I'll talk to him about it and see what he thinks. Worst case I'll need to go for a Sport Pilot license.
 
ExpressJetter said:
Congrats on taking the dive. I'm in Central NJ and have instructed and flow from a few places. If you need help making a decision I'd be happy to help.
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Local airports to me are Sky Manor and Solberg. I plan on talking to both flight schools in the next month or so to try and make a decision.
 
Grapeshot said:
Local airports to me are Sky Manor and Solberg. I plan on talking to both flight schools in the next month or so to try and make a decision.
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My plane is based at Sky manor. Rates are good and the school is good. I flew their 172 the other day and it was pretty solid.

Oh and btw don't just go to any aviation medical examiner. Some guys will make your life miserable with medical clearance if they don't know what they are doing and document something wrong or improper. It happened to me when I was 16 and had to jump through hoops proving there was nothing wrong.
 
I have a color vision waiver. At the time, i was told 70% of men are color deficient. Not color blind, but deficient. I worked in a paint store for a while. The women could easily match paint colors, that I never could. That was a clue. So my waiver was issued in the early 70's. I'm sure plenty has changed. At that time, there were many tests you could take to get the waiver. Just depends on the mood of the FAA clerk at the time of application, as far as I could tell. So i did one test for my third class medical. That involved the AME asking me what color something on the wall was. The FAA didn't issue my 2nd class or 1st class at the time. I had applied for the 1st class. They just sent me a 3rd class with no explanation. So I went back and applied for the first class, again. They told me I had to do a different test for that. So i called the local FAA office to set up an appointment for the new test. When i went to the FAA appointment, the examiner informed me that she really wasn't up on the regs for the color vision test, but she had been researching it. According to her, I only needed to pass one of the numerous tests for a 1st class. And I had passed that with the AME. But seemed easier at the time to walk outside and have the tower give me light gun signals at dusk. We did that, and I was passed. so even though I had applied for the 1st class, the FAA sent me a 2nd class. So again we resubmitted the paperwork for a 1st class. again I was told I would need another color vision test at the FAA office. I called again, set up an appointment, again. The inspector took up my case with OAK city. She lost that one, and we set up a flight test. It was IFR when I showed up for the flight test in my Viking. She had never flown a Viking before. So I checked her out in the Viking, we shot some approaches and got our currency well up to date. had a great time, and I got my 1st class Medical. Welcome to dealing with the FAA.
 
This is exactly what I mean. More than happy to help @Grapeshot just shoot me a dm and we can have a phonecall if u want


Oldmanb777 said:
I have a color vision waiver. At the time, i was told 70% of men are color deficient. Not color blind, but deficient. I worked in a paint store for a while. The women could easily match paint colors, that I never could. That was a clue. So my waiver was issued in the early 70's. I'm sure plenty has changed. At that time, there were many tests you could take to get the waiver. Just depends on the mood of the FAA clerk at the time fo application, as far as I could tell. So i did one test for my third class medical. That involved the AME asking me what color something on the wall was. The FAA didn't issue my 2nd class or 1st class at the time. I had applied for the 1st class. They just sent me a 3rd class with no explanation. So I went back and applied for the first class, again. They told me I had to do a different test for that. So i called the local FAA office to set up an appointment for the new test. When i went to the FAA apointment, the examiner informed me that she really wasn't up on the regs for the color vision test, but she had been researching it. According to her, I only needed ot pass one of the numerous tests for a 1st class. And I had passed that witrh the AME. But seemed easierr at teh time to walk outside and have the tower give me light gun signals at dusk. We did that, and I was passed. so even though I had applied for the 1st class, the FAA sent me a 2nd class. So again we resubmitted the paperwork for a 1st class. again I was told I would need another color vision test at the FAA office. I called again, set up an appointment, again. The inspector took up my case with OAK city. She lost that one, and we set up a flight test. I was IFR when I showed up for the flight test in my Viking. She had never flown a Viking befoer. So I checked her out in the Viking, we shot some approaches and got our currency well up to date. had a great time, and I got my 1st class Medical. Welcome to dealing with the FAA.
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So, some background, and another question.

My color blindness was enough to keep me out of the Navy in the 70's. I can see Red/Green, so am good to drive, but not good enough for subs, which is what I wanted. They would have put me on a carrier, but that was not what I was looking for at 17.

So, assuming I need to go for my Sport Pilot's license, and I am taking ground school on-line (Sporty's), should I:
  • Still go through all the ground school needed for PPL, or
  • Just do the stuff I need for Sport Pilot?
I am leaning toward doing all the ground school for PPL, because it's there, it's available, and I find it interesting.
Or - should I double down on just what I need for Sport and not fill my head with what I don't need to pass the test?

I don't know what to expect when I go for my written test, so I am looking for advice.
 
Grapeshot said:
So, some background, and another question.

My color blindness was enough to keep me out of the Navy in the 70's. I can see Red/Green, so am good to drive, but not good enough for subs, which is what I wanted. They would have put me on a carrier, but that was not what I was looking for at 17.

So, assuming I need to go for my Sport Pilot's license, and I am taking ground school on-line (Sporty's), should I:
  • Still go through all the ground school needed for PPL, or
  • Just do the stuff I need for Sport Pilot?
I am leaning toward doing all the ground school for PPL, because it's there, it's available, and I find it interesting.
Or - should I double down on just what I need for Sport and not fill my head with what I don't need to pass the test?

I don't know what to expect when I go for my written test, so I am looking for advice.
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Skip the sport and go for the ppl. Too many restrictions and don't think there is much benefit. You can go basic med if you don't want to continue to get the FAA medical. Basically.... if you have a driver's license and I'm decent health your good. There is a bunch of different options out there.
 
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IMHO - focus on getting the private. I started out Sport, but quickly found 1) there were no sport planes to rent, 2) next to impossible to find a flight school that would train a person for Sport. The weight restrictions, flight restrictions, etc. were also a bit of a handicap.

Continue with the Sporty's ground school for Private. If you change horses in a few months the material will all apply to the Sports written test.

Read up and reach out to the good doctors that hang around the "Medical" area of this board. They can help you figure out what to do about getting a 3rd class medical, what your situation would need, etc. I have a hunch it is going to be easier than other cases I've read about, but that is just a hunch.

For a PPL, you MUST have a 3rd class medical at least once. After that, you can do a type of medical that is with your personal doctor called "Basic Med" - but first things first.

DO NOT GO to an AME at this time to do an FAA medical exam. Get things sorted out first, and then when it is assured you will pass you can go.


BTW - we're somewhat similar in that I'm approaching semi retirement in a few years, but am now empty nesting. Got my PPL almost exactly 1 year ago. Wanted it for years, and am finally in a place where I can do this.
 
Grapeshot said:
Worst case I'll need to go for a Sport Pilot license.
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Hey! I resemble that remark!

Seriously ... I have no known health issues or past history that would preclude me from a PPL. But my Sport Pilot Certificate gives me the privileges that I want and use the most. I don't see me flying a single engine experimental in the dark or in the clouds. I've not had the need for more than two seats and 120 knots gets me to the local fly-ins, $100.00 burgers, and a little cross-country every now and then to nearby states. It's quite economical to operate (all things considered).

The wife and I (sometimes with a child or two) will make our way from the east cost over to Idaho to see family. When we go there it's via Delta and I sit in the back a critique the pilot by how good the landing is. :D
 
WDD said:
Read up and reach out to the good doctors that hang around the "Medical" area of this board. They can help you figure out what to do about getting a 3rd class medical, what your situation would need, etc. I have a hunch it is going to be easier than other cases I've read about, but that is just a hunch.

For a PPL, you MUST have a 3rd class medical at least once. After that, you can do a type of medical that is with your personal doctor called "Basic Med" - but first things first.

DO NOT GO to an AME at this time to do an FAA medical exam. Get things sorted out first, and then when it is assured you will pass you can go.
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:yeahthat:

@Grapeshot, I'm guessing that you and I are around the same age (60-something), so, this being your first go at a medical certificate, I suggest that you make an appointment for a consultation with an AME before doing the actual medical exam. To keep Sport Pilot as an option, you really don't want to fail this medical test. The goal is to visit the AME's office and walk out with a medical certificate, with no surprises. Once you get the first medical, you have the option of getting into BasicMed instead of having to qualify for an FAA medical certificate every two years.

FWIW, I did NOT get a consult, and wish I had. The FAA Medical Division is understaffed (due to budget constraints, from what I hear) and it takes a really, really, really, long time (as in months) for them to process requests. They are not super speedy like the DMV. ;)

Good luck!
 
Getting the color vision waiver shouldn't be a big deal for a 3rd class medical. It wasn't when I did mine many years ago. I "think" the reason that mine was a bit more convoluted, was that I was looking for a 1st class, without the hours for the ATP and I had been passed for a 1st class by a previous AME. So that brings up another thing. AME's are not all the same. For some its a sideline, for some its their primary focus, and so on. I have gone to a few, and really liked most, but............... So you could say that about most people in any profession. My suggestion would be to ask around. Stop pilots at the airport, and ask who they use and why. I know several that I would go to for most any ailment, as well as the FAA physical, I also have known one I would not go to for a splinter. Some will want you to be a perfect human specimen, some only need you to be able to get in the door without falling down. Ask around a bit for an AME.
 
Grapeshot said:
Thanks for the feedback. I have my annual eye doc appointment in a few weeks; I'll talk to him about it and see what he thinks. Worst case I'll need to go for a Sport Pilot license.
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You can earn and fly as a PPL with color-blindness. You will be prohibited from flying as PIC at night and under light gun control. No big deal.

You may want to contact this guy, Bruce Chien, a senior AME who has helped hundreds if not thousands pass their medicals. It's his mission in life.
http://www.aeromedicaldoc.com/
 
Grapeshot said:
So, some background, and another question.

My color blindness was enough to keep me out of the Navy in the 70's. I can see Red/Green, so am good to drive, but not good enough for subs, which is what I wanted. They would have put me on a carrier, but that was not what I was looking for at 17.
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If you can see red and green you should be good to go, but you need to talk to an AME.
 
Just want to say thanks to everyone here for your encouragement and advice. I've been a member here for 3 days and already have learned a ton!

Oh, and since I am from New Jersey, and before you ask, it's pork roll. Just wanted to get that out of the way.

So - PPL it is. Sport is plan B. I'll wait a while before I go for the physical (thanks for all the advice).

I'll keep working on ground school (I've been lax the last few weeks with holidays and all), and check out my 2 local airport flying schools in January.

Thanks again for all of your help.
 
ExpressJetter said:
Skip the sport and go for the ppl. Too many restrictions and don't think there is much benefit. You can go basic med if you don't want to get the FAA medical. Basically.... if you have a driver's license and I'm decent health your good. There is a bunch of different options out there.
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Welcome @Grapeshot !

I hate to be the nit picker in such a positive thread. But I am gonna be that guy. This post from @ExpressJetter 'might' be a bit misleading if read wrong...

A few things on the medical
1) You MUST get an FAA 3rd Class medical once in order to take advantage of Basic Med. He might have said that elsewhere but my job here is to pick nits and by golly, that's what I am gonna do!

2) Do not go near MedExpress until you KNOW you can pass. Once you send the data, the application is live and unless you have your ducks in a row, that can be a LARGE mistake. There is a reference to this somewhere...might be POA...might be at www.aeromedicaldoc.com

3) A consult with an AME who knows what he/she is doing can save you tons of heartache.

Dr. Chien has been mentioned...he is the top of the pile and has tons of experience with helping vision-deficient pilots get their medical. <edithttp://www.aeromedicaldoc.com/how-we-work.html>

Good to have you on board...the inside jokes and references here on POA are beyond most people's ability to wrap their minds around but the good news is that only about 99% of it is very entertaining!
 
Kelvin said:
2) Do not go near MedExpress until you KNOW you can pass. Once you send the data, the application is live and unless you have your ducks in a row, that can be a LARGE mistake. There is a reference to this somewhere...might be POA...might be at www.aeromedicaldoc.com
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I am not sure this statement is accurate. IIRC, the application goes live when the AME opens it, not once the applicant sends it. Again, IIRC, unless the AME opens it, it drops dead after 60 days.

But I can be proven wrong.
 
Kelvin said:
Welcome @Grapeshot !

I hate to be the nit picker in such a positive thread. But I am gonna be that guy.
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There is always "that guy" that guy that takes things out of context. Here is some reference for what I'm talking about so there can't be "that guy." Straight from the horses mouth.

On July 15, 2016, Congress passed legislation to extend the FAA's funding. This legislation, FAA Extension, Safety, Security Act of 2016 (FESSA) includes relief from holding an FAA medical certificate for certain pilots. This relief is called BasicMed.

When can I fly under BasicMed?
If you meet the BasicMed requirements, you can operate under BasicMed (without an FAA medical certificate) right now!

What do I need to do to fly under BasicMed?
  1. Comply with the general BasicMed requirements (possess a U.S. driver's license, have held a medical after July 14, 2006).
  2. Get a physical exam with a state-licensed physician, using the Comprehensive Medical Examination Checklist
  3. Complete a BasicMed medical education course;
  4. Go fly!
Aircraft Requirements
  • Any aircraft authorized under federal law to carry not more than 6 occupants
  • Has a maximum certificated takeoff weight of not more than 6,000 pounds
Operating Requirements
  • Carries not more than five passengers
  • Operates under VFR or IFR, within the United States, at less than 18,000 feet MSL, not exceeding 250 knots.
  • Flight not operated for compensation or hire
Medical Conditions Requiring One Special Issuance Before Operating under BasicMed
  • A mental health disorder, limited to an established medical history or clinical diagnosis of—
    • A personality disorder that is severe enough to have repeatedly manifested itself by overt acts;
    • A psychosis, defined as a case in which an individual —
      • Has manifested delusions, hallucinations, grossly bizarre or disorganized behavior, or other commonly accepted symptoms of psychosis; or
      • May reasonably be expected to manifest delusions, hallucinations, grossly bizarre or disorganized behavior, or other commonly accepted symptoms of psychosis;
    • A bipolar disorder; or
    • A substance dependence within the previous 2 years, as defined in §67.307(a)(4) of 14 Code of Federal Regulations
  • A neurological disorder, limited to an established medical history or clinical diagnosis of any of the following:
    • Epilepsy;
    • Disturbance of consciousness without satisfactory medical explanation of the cause; or
    • A transient loss of control of nervous system functions without satisfactory medical explanation of the cause.
  • A cardiovascular condition, limited to a one-time special issuance for each diagnosis of the following:
    • Myocardial infarction;
    • Coronary heart disease that has required treatment;
    • Cardiac valve replacement; or
    • Heart replacement.
 
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