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Tim_B

Filing Flight Plan
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Tim_B
I'm new to the forum and wondering about some of your opinions:

My best friend got his ppl which opened my eyes to the fact that it isn't AS expensive as I always thought it would be.

My Father-in-law has always wanted a small airplane so he has said that "if I get my license he will buy a plane"
- I suggested to him that a club may be a lot better option vs purchase but he wants to be able to up and go (weather permitting) whenever he wants

so I'm looking saying it's worth the 5-10K investment for me IF he is going to follow through and pretty much buy me a plane (i'm not asking for handouts but also not dumb enough to turn down someone purchasing a plane for me to fly)

my concerns:
-he wants a 4 seater plane
-he wants the ability to fly from upstate NY to Idaho (his son lives there)
-mother-in-law is obese (not 400 pounds obese but I'm going to venture a guess over 250 while my father-in-law, wife and I are all under 140 so not sure how having a heavy weight will affect center of gravity/handling)

I know the flight to Idaho CAN be done but is it realistic in something like a Cessna 172 with 2-3 passengers & next to no luggage (looks like even 40# of luggage would put one right against the upper weight limit which I'm assuming means even worse trying to get up over the Rockys) I'm looking to stay VFR so really thinking i'm 100% all for flying the family local but cross country doesn't sound safe?

So what do you guys think? am I looking at things in a logical manner? should I encourage him to look at a 172 for me to train on with one of the local instructors then bump up to a 182 down the road?

thanks in advance
 
How much is he willing to spend.

A Cessna 180 is a GREAT upstate and Idaho plane, some good deals.
 
Tim_B said:
so I'm looking saying it's worth the 5-10K investment for me IF he is going to follow through and pretty much buy me a plane (i'm not asking for handouts but also not dumb enough to turn down someone purchasing a plane for me to fly)
Click to expand...

If you want to learn to fly and go flying, getting your certificate is worth it no matter what someone else buys or doesn't buy. The two are completely unrelated.

If you're getting your certificate only because someone you know might buy a plane, that probably isn't a good reason to.

Call me simple, but that's the way I see it. If you're going to learn to fly, go learn to fly. If he's going to buy a plane, great. If not, who cares?
 
Tim_B said:
I'm new to the forum and wondering about some of your opinions:

My best friend got his ppl which opened my eyes to the fact that it isn't AS expensive as I always thought it would be.

My Father-in-law has always wanted a small airplane so he has said that "if I get my license he will buy a plane"
- I suggested to him that a club may be a lot better option vs purchase but he wants to be able to up and go (weather permitting) whenever he wants

so I'm looking saying it's worth the 5-10K investment for me IF he is going to follow through and pretty much buy me a plane (i'm not asking for handouts but also not dumb enough to turn down someone purchasing a plane for me to fly)

my concerns:
-he wants a 4 seater plane
-he wants the ability to fly from upstate NY to Idaho (his son lives there)
-mother-in-law is obese (not 400 pounds obese but I'm going to venture a guess over 250 while my father-in-law, wife and I are all under 140 so not sure how having a heavy weight will affect center of gravity/handling)

I know the flight to Idaho CAN be done but is it realistic in something like a Cessna 172 with 2-3 passengers & next to no luggage (looks like even 40# of luggage would put one right against the upper weight limit which I'm assuming means even worse trying to get up over the Rockys) I'm looking to stay VFR so really thinking i'm 100% all for flying the family local but cross country doesn't sound safe?

So what do you guys think? am I looking at things in a logical manner? should I encourage him to look at a 172 for me to train on with one of the local instructors then bump up to a 182 down the road?

thanks in advance
Click to expand...
so you wouldn't go for your PPC if your F-I-L wasn't going to buy a plane??? if you want to get your certificate then go for it. if your F-I-L wants to then buy a plane you can deal with the size and type at that time. one crisis at a time.
 
It's going to be more than a $5-10K investment. Most people take 55-65 hrs to earn their certificate, plus there's study materials, ground school, tests, the examiner (mine was $400), etc. People learn to fly because they want to learn to fly... not because a relative thinks it would be neat to buy a plane one day.
 
If your getting the ppl because the rel is buying a plane,let them pay for your training.a 206 Cessna would work for me.
 
You didnt actually say if your fil was certificated or not. If not, does he expect u to fly him around?
 
Flying from upstate NY to Idaho is not something you would do casually or regularly in a small GA aircraft. And hauling a person of 250 lbs is also not easy in same. You'll get all kinds of advice here, but mine is that your FIL's requirements to fly the family annually on that trip, with that heavy passenger, is just not practical in a small GA aircraft flown by a PPL.
Bear in mind, I have flown friends, colleagues, family, and Angel Flight passengers all over the country over decades in small GA aircraft in all kinds of weather, so I know pretty well what they can and cannot do safely and practically, esp. with a low experience PPL at the helm.
 
getting my PPL is something i'm interested in regardless, but doesn't make sense to invest the money into it flying and not have a plane at the end of the deal, and would rather not put out for a plane myself or a club until I have a house bought/built.

this was just one of those something i'm interested in flying but can't/not allowing myself to afford a plane, he loves the freedom of small GA aircraft and has the $$ so has the potential to be a win-win... he understands that I'm self employed so need to keep my customers happy but I also understand if he's going to purchase a plane, heck yea I'm on the hook to hop in the plane with him and have lunch with his family in new hampshire and have him home in time for evening milking weather permitting. But along with having the responsibility to shuttle him around, I get the perk of going down to the airport and putting hours on when the weather is good, no reservations, no scheduling, fuel it up and go for a spin.


as far as the 5-10K investment figure, my theory would be if FIL is buying a plane purchase one and get trained in that plane so then my flight hours would be me paying for fuel, him paying for maintenance which cuts down the rental costs quite a bit.


Rotordude- thanks for answering the questions with logical answers...

i know i'm new but a cessna 206 for hauling up to 4 people on occasion with a new pilot? i was hoping for some more constructive stuff from you guys :-/ yea it is probably better suited for a cross country with 4 people BUT I'm taking a stab in the dark to say that 182's are debatable for acceptable to train on or not let alone a 206

my thoughts were pretty much to lay it out as "we could do a 172 or something similar, keep trips to the northeast w/out luggage or minimal luggage" then hop on a delta flight for probably a fraction of the cost and a lot less time/risk. but I wasn't sure if that was a logical way to approach or if I was being too reserved in my thoughts
 
It really depends on the price target he's willing to spend. Not trying to degrade anything you wrote, just think it's worth mentioning...when it comes to making a looong cross-country flight as you said, there are many variables that come into play when flying a small GA aircraft. Being a freshly minted Private Pilot without an instrument rating will play a large factor in this whole thing. Don't expect to be able to operate like SWA.
 
NY to Idaho in a 172, with three people, will be gruesome. Even with an instrument rating, you might lounge about a hotel for a day or two while some killer weather passes. Alone, or with one other person, it could be fun, without the press of a tight schedule. If you absoloutely have to be back on a particular day, you might need to leave your airplane somewhere and buy a ticket home.
 
My contribution is to ask how often is this big cross country trip going to really happen? Not just the dream of how many times, but seriously real world going to happen?

If it's just once or twice a year, the a GA aircraft isn't the best idea at this juncture. Better for the two of you to get something suited for the regional 2-3 hour flying, then learn and build time and discover if you truly need the long distance heavy hauler.

At 1-3 times a year, that trip is better done with the airlines, even with their inconveniences. Dispatch reliability is high, comfort is a push, but everyone can go regardless of personal and baggage weight.

It is fun to dream, "We will fly ourselves EVERYwhere!" But reality is much of your flying at first will be close to home.
 
Welcome to POA...be prepared for an onslaught of opinions and have a thick skin. This group is notorious for tearing apart a plan...or even a dream at this point..and telling you why it CAN'T be done rather than helping you on a path of how it CAN be done.

One of the biggest expenses of flying next to fuel IS the plane. MANY pilot fall of the radar once they get their PPL because they do not have access to a plane and renting can be quite expensive. If you have someone that is willing to get the plane and you want to get your PPL, hell yeah, go for it!

For any type of cross country trip with three "healthy" adults and bags you are gonnna want a 182 or better. 172 ain't gonna cut it. 152 and 172's are the default trainers, but absolutely nothing wrong with training in a 182 or bigger plane. People do it all the time if that is what you have. Most do not...so they use the 152 or 172 which make more financial sense when renting for training.

NY to ID...that will be an adventure trip in a GA plane...not a reliable source of transportation on a regular basis...especially of VFR only...but it easily can be done. It is just not as easy a a commercial trip as far as everything you have to factor in for a successful trip.
 
Tim_B said:
i know i'm new but a cessna 206 for hauling up to 4 people on occasion with a new pilot? i was hoping for some more constructive stuff from you guys :-/ yea it is probably better suited for a cross country with 4 people BUT I'm taking a stab in the dark to say that 182's are debatable for acceptable to train on or not let alone a 206
Click to expand...

A guy on here (Mulligan) bought a 206 and he got his PPC and Instrument rating in it. Sure it is more complex than a C172 but if you begin learning in it then you learn to fly the plane and it's complexities regardless. Once you're accustomed to it it's not a big deal. It involves a little more training because it has more systems on it than a C172. Nothing wrong with a C182 either, great airplane. I think Mulligan started in a C172 for a few hours and then purchased the 206 to complete his training.

Now as a CFI would I recommend starting in a 206 vs 172? Probably not. But, if the client's goal in getting the PPC was to fly their own 206, then I could see the logic of teaching in the 206.
 
Trust me, you're getting plenty of 'constructive' stuff. That flight ain't happening in a C172. It's barely happening in a C182...maybe. There's a lot if ppl's out here flying who don't have somebody buying them a plane. Nice to own but not exactly a requirement. There's rentals, clubs, partnerships, etc.

Good luck
 
good to know about the 206, although I know it's more plane than I would need and know it MIGHT be a once a year flight not worth going for the whole deal when it won't get utilized enough. but those answers although don't seem realistic for me and what I imagine my standard flight will be, are good for me to see so I can say "hey lets be realistic about the pro's & con's of a 172 or like sized aircraft, a 182, and a 206

also from previous reading I figured a 172 wasn't going to be a cross country flight but also didn't want to assume that I was overlooking something

as far as the rental/club I have looked into both and think once I buy a house & it's mostly paid for then a club will certainly be revisited, rentals don't really excite me since at least the local ones seem high enough in cost/hour that I know I wouldn't utilize it as much as I should to stay current where as a club if I'm paying monthly dues I'm going to be flying more often because the cost/hour is less and the more hours I fly the better I will be as well
 
Lot's of good advice. My concern is it sounds like your FIL wants you to fly him around in exchange for him buying an airplane. FAA isn't going to like that if/when they get wind of it. Second, Get-there-itis. There could be pressure for you to complete a flight when you shouldn't leave the ground. That pressure is very real. I've experienced it with my wife and we had to have a real come-to-Jesus cuz your life depends on it talk.

All of my flying is VFR. My long cross countries are adventures, where we can afford to sit down for a day or two or even go another direction because it's more about the adventure than the destination. If the destination is so important- and it sounds like it is in your case- you need your instrument ticket. Tread cautiously Tim_B, you don't know what you don't know here but are wise to ask.
 
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