New hydrogen engine

donjohnston

donjohnston

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If their previous track record is any indication, we'll see this in 2050.

generalaviationnews.com

DeltaHawk launches hydrogen engine development program — General Aviation News

"These tests have demonstrated DeltaHawk’s highly adaptable engine architecture is suitable for hydrogen fuel, and that the company’s patented engine design has applications in a variety of markets in addition to aviation, including zero emission vehicles (ZEV), other commercial power...
generalaviationnews.com generalaviationnews.com
 
Salty said:
What the world really needs is an engine that runs on something not readily available. Sounds like a great idea.
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I like an engine that runs on something you got to bore down into the ground, inject water and other chemicals to get it to flow, then pump it up, pipe in to a refinery, cook it, put in another pipe to send it to a terminal, then place it on a truck and drive it to where I want so I can complain about the price.
 
Clip4 said:
I like an engine that runs on something you got to bore down into the ground, inject water and other chemicals to get it to flow, then pump it up, pipe in to a refinery, cook it, put in another pipe to send it to a terminal, then place it on a truck and drive it to where I want so I can complain about the price.
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All this and still I could find 10,000 places that sell it before finding one that sells hydrogen. And it has a higher energy density to boot. But who cares about that in aircraft.
 
Salty said:
All this and still I could find 10,000 places that sell it before finding one that sells hydrogen. And it has a higher energy density to boot. But who cares about that in aircraft.
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True, but a short drive east, west or south of your location there are trillions of gallons of the stuff in a liquid bond to 2 oxygen molecules and plenty of sunshine to drive the electricity produced solar panels to free it up.
 
Clip4 said:
True, but a short drive east, west or south of your location there are trillions of gallons of the stuff in a liquid bond to 2 oxygen molecules and plenty of sunshine to drive the electricity produced solar panels to free it up.
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That solves one out of about 47 problems.
 
Salty said:
All this and still I could find 10,000 places that sell it before finding one that sells hydrogen. And it has a higher energy density to boot. But who cares about that in aircraft.
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Most hydrogen stations get the gas from natural gas production.

I think hydrogen is the holy grail compared to lithium batteries which is just a stop gap. But the infrastructure to "fill up" a battery is much more easily added.
 
I only learned recently that there's a crash site memorial at KNEL.
 
Salty said:
All this and still I could find 10,000 places that sell it before finding one that sells hydrogen. And it has a higher energy density to boot. But who cares about that in aircraft.
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Yet you live in a don’t drill in our waters State.
 
Clip4 said:
Yet you live in a don’t drill in our waters State.
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That doesn't bother me none....says the guy from South Louisiana! We've got plenty of reserves offshore and can use the dollars that it brings in. We're happy to share. :)
 
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I am thinking one downside would be that the same characteristic that makes hydrogen eco-friendly and economical is what gives hydrogen as a fuel its biggest flaw. Its simple composition makes it highly flammable in large quantities, so it will require a lot of investment to come up with protection systems in vehicles to avoid the risk of fire. Hydrogen leaking from a system should be detectable by electronic sensors and at least by smell.

With the price of new cars currently higher than what I paid for my house, I am not willing to add that extra cost.

Sure stink is put into natural gas and everyone associates the rotten egg smell with natural gas, so what stink will be put into hydrogen.?? It can't be a pleasant smell, it has to offend the olfactory system, you know like a sewage treatment plant, and I have ridden in a wagon pulled by mules....
 
However, the flammability poses no risk greater than gasoline vapors, LP gas....and we have learned to readily accept those risks. Yes, the Hindenburg accident made H2 appear to be a very dangerous gas; that is correct relative to He, the precursor to H2. I'll still stick to my Ethyl, thank you. :)
 
Zeldman said:
With the price of new cars currently higher than what I paid for my house, I am not willing to add that extra cost.
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You'll find the prices for low mileage used hydrogen powered Toyota Mirais are really quite low. ;)

There might be a reason for that unless you happen to want to drive it only in greater Los Angeles, the only place where there are a measurable number of fueling stations.
 
donjohnston said:
Did I miss the post where Salty said not to drill in Florida? Because I don't see that.
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Yeah, I didn’t realize I had the power to control that decision solely. I guess I’m slacking.
 
Yeap, we need to be handling -252C liquids. And how to insulate them so they stay cold? Or, how to deal the pressure. Nothing like changing to pressure tanks for fuel that weigh hundreds of pounds.
 
Salty said:
Do the people and or cargo go in the wings?
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Ha. The pax sit in the same seats they did and the cargo/bagg goes in the same area in back. They did pull out 10 rows of pax seats for the "modules" and added the cargo door. However, this hydrogen feeds an electric fuel cell/electric motor vs used for internal combustion in a conventional turbine. Regardless, I doubt the OP engine or any ICE use of hydrogen would be feasible. And since they're only pursuing an STC for the entire hydrogen conversion "should be" fairly quick to get certification.
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Don't be fooled....that was gaseous hydrogen. A small baby step towards reality.
 
The problem with H is low energy density, and addressing that means liquid form which means being very cold, which means mechanical complexity and unreliability. Here's an analysis with a recent H car engine:
 
Salty said:
What the world really needs is an engine that runs on something not readily available. Sounds like a great idea.
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Well, the first cars had that difficulty, but it was quickly overcome since the cracking and blending of petroleum fractions was already producing kerosene to replace coal oil. And gasoline sits in a thinwalled tank just fine, unlike hydrogen in any form.

A plane or car crash with gasoline might result in a hot fire, but that fire's radius won't be that large. A plane or car crash with compressed or liquid hydrogen aboard has the risk of a HUGE fire as the pressure is suddenly released.

The Hindenburg's pressure was pretty much at ambient. That isn't the sort of fire a hydrogen-powered vehicle would have.

Like Chopandrop says, tie it to carbon atoms and it's a lot safer and far more practical. And a lot less weight to pack around.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
that was gaseous hydrogen.
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True. But then again their liquid hydrogen modules are going through separate tests and certification processes in another country. And last I heard, they were ground running a test bed ATR-72 with the liquid hydrogen modules installed in the aircraft. Hardly “small baby steps” wouldn’t you think? Perhaps you need to get away from your desk more often?
 
robin ardoin said:
That doesn't bother me none....says the guy from South Louisiana! We've got plenty of reserves offshore and can use to dollars that it brings in. We're happy to share. :)
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Thank you Louisiana, Texas, Alaska and surprisingly California (in federal waters) for allowing offshore drilling.!!
 
Bell206 said:
True. But then again their liquid hydrogen modules are going through separate tests and certification processes in another country. And last I heard, they were ground running a test bed ATR-72 with the liquid hydrogen modules installed in the aircraft. Hardly “small baby steps” wouldn’t you think? Perhaps you need to get away from your desk more often?
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Name one vehicle operating with liquid hydrogen…..and not a rocket.
 
Checkout_my_Six said:
Name one vehicle operating with liquid hydrogen…..and not a rocket.
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Really? Well... Toyota has a liquid H2 powered race car... Or how about the HY4 airplane that flew on liquid hydrogen? Video below in case you doubt that. Lot going on in the world if you choose to look. And just to keep you in the loop, got a text this morning that a commercial 787 made the 1st flight across the pond using 100% SAF just in case you didn't get the memo.;)
 
Bell206 said:
True. But then again their liquid hydrogen modules are going through separate tests and certification processes in another country. And last I heard, they were ground running a test bed ATR-72 with the liquid hydrogen modules installed in the aircraft. Hardly “small baby steps” wouldn’t you think? Perhaps you need to get away from your desk more often?
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you know the flight test was not done at full power? It had heating issues.
 
Bell206 said:
Really? Well... Toyota has a liquid H2 powered race car... Or how about the HY4 airplane that flew on liquid hydrogen? Video below in case you doubt that. Lot going on in the world if you choose to look....
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Boeing Phantom Eye. Unmanned, liquid hydrogen, 2 auto conversion engines; and all this back in 2012. The POA technology assessment department seems to think there's no point in technology development unless all of the supporting technology is fully mature and fielded.

Nauga,
from the far horizon
 
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