New Guy, Old Questions...

[Dry Creek]

Hello folks,
New member here that's been a lurker for some time. I am posting this in the training forum because that's where I'm heading - I think.

From as early an age as I can remember, I have been intrigued with the concept of flight - both powered and to a lesser extent, non-powered (gliders). I always wanted to pursue my Private Pilot Certificate from the time I was in my early teens. Some of my earliest reading was basic flight explanation. I remember as a young child being escorted by a FA to the cockpit of a Braniff 727. I was able to point out the basic instrumentation (i.e. altimeter, "artificial horizon", airspeed). I was very excited, and I remember being rewarded with a small model of the 727. In high school I had heard that you could get pilot training through the Civil Air Patrol. I would have used that avenue if we had not relocated as frequently as we did.

At 17 I joined the Navy where I started my technical training in the Naval Nuclear Power Program. After ending my obligated service in 1986 I again started researching what it would entail to obtain a PP Certification. Newly married, buying a first house, child - those things came before flight training.

Now that I have turned 59 and have the resources to finally follow my dream into the skies, I am pondering if it is a dream still worth pursuing. I have started on the first steps towards certification, but being older and more pragmatic, I am asking myself what I really want to accomplish. So, while I am trying to truly define my "mission", I have been determined to start on the path. Because I work in a very technical field, and we are expected to be able to self-study, I have leveraged that ability to start my "ground school basics". I have read through the FAA Airplane Flying Handbook 2021 (large format soft cover), FAA Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge (2016, PDF <- uggh, hate reading on a tablet), and finally ASA's PM2 The Pilot's Manual Ground School (large format hard back, Third Edition). I also downloaded some kind of free "study guide" from a website called "Part Time Pilot". It seemed to be very disjointed and vague, and was really an extended infomercial for their online ground school. I also have a hot-off-the press copy of the 2022 FAR/AIM. To aid in certain parts of the training, I have purchased the sectional charts for my area, which is overlapped by DFW and San Antonio. Of course both of those are now expired and will be replaced before I begin any actual flight training. I purchased a rotating plotter, a nice ASA aluminum/color E6B, and an ASA CX3 of which I haven't even unboxed yet (wanting to learn the battery-free method first). Foar an added reference I have downloaded the FAA Weight and Balance Handbook (2016, PDF). To work on the very basics, I also have a copy of Microsoft Flight Simulator X running on a dedicated computer with the Saitek/Logitech Flight Yoke/Throttle Quadrant/Rudder pedals. Although I haven't dug very deeply into it, I purchased a used copy of ASA's "MS Flight Simulator as a Training Aid" by Bruce Williams.

Now that I have the textbook basics behind me, I have started through ASA's 2021 Private Pilot Test Prep book. I am on my second pass through it, and I hope to be taking my first practice test sometime this week - if my schedule will allow. I chose that particular product because they offer the CFI endorsement for taking the test once I make above 80% on any two of the five practice tests included in the package. Once I am confident in my ability to not embarrass myself, I plan to schedule the test down in Waco at the PSI location there. I will make a separate post with the questions I have regarding the test environment to expect.

After the (hopefully) successful completion of the written exam, I am going to head up to Granbury and find the only AME that's close to me. Hopefully I can get through that without any issues. I will probably need to wait until early January though, as I'm currently recovering from total shoulder replacement. As a note, AOPA states that they generally look favorably on "successful" joint replacement surgery. I hope so, the right knee was done in 2016, and the right shoulder in July of this year, and the left shoulder just earlier this month.

Once I have my completed knowledge test and third class medical in hand, I intend to start shopping around for a CFI. Right now my choices are pretty much looking at Cleburne (KCPT), Granbury Municiple (KGDJ) and Stephenville Clark Field (KSEP). At KSEP I got to meet the CFI one of my coworkers is training under. He has his own plane (C-172) and his all-in cost is $150 hour. That's what I am looking at for wet rentals at my other two choices. Tempting, but I will still plan a discovery flight at each of the fields to get a feel for the training atmosphere and review their syllabus.

When I first decided to finally start down the path (almost 6 months ago) I was looking into the advice to buy a trainer and use that for time building. Well, since then, every plane for sale, even the hangar queens, have pretty much doubled in price. I was hankering for a decent 150/152 for my training as it also fit the broadest parameters of my undefined mission so far. Any airplane that my wife will be on better have a bathroom available after two hours of flight. That's why she loves travelling in our motor home - facilities as just a few steps away while in motion. So, I am guessing that since the $18K trainers out there are no longer to be found (flyable, in annual, sixpack steam gauges, no ADS-B out), I am looking at renting.

So, after this lengthy missive, it all really boils down to this - at 59, Have I missed the boat? Is PP-SEL a "useful" target for someone that may actually be better served by Recreational Pilot certification? With the costs of airplanes spiraling out of reach for most folks also planning to enter retirement here in three years, would you pursue certification just to rent a plane maybe twice a year to keep barely current? My wife has also recommended that I look into the Hamilton Soaring club as a more affordable alternative. I do have a softbound large-format copy of the FAA Glider Flying Handbook on my library shelf, just as an alternative.

I am open to all suggestions. Be honest. I am truly vacillating on whether or not I should continue down the path I've started.

 

[Cluemeister]

- No, it's not too late.
- You'll get great medical advice from others on this forum
- Start training before passing the written. Get in that airplane sooner than later. You will only need the medical prior to solo, and that's a good 40-50 hours of flight time away.
- Plenty of options besides buying. A flying club sounds like a great option for you.

 

[brcase]

>So, after this lengthy missive, it all really boils down to this - at 59, Have I missed the boat? Is PP-SEL a "useful" target for someone that may actually be better served by Recreational Pilot certification?

The difference between recreational and Private is so small the you might as well do Private and not have the limitations of a recreational pilot certificate.
If the Medical is not an issue go for private pilot, otherwise go for Sport Pilot.
Be sure about your medical. If you have been lurking very long you know the advise is consult a senior AME such as Bruce Chien, http://www.aeromedicaldoc.com/, if you have much of anything less than perfect health. A simple question on something you don't think will be an issue can easily avert a lot of problems you didn't expect.

>With the costs of airplanes spiraling out of reach for most folks also planning to enter retirement here in three years, would you pursue certification just to rent a plane maybe twice a year to keep barely current?

If you can't afford a plane now then rent or look for a club, also has the advantage that you can focus on just learning to fly as opposed to learning to fly and learning to own/maintain an airplane. Lots of people find that learning to fly can actually be more fun than the actual flying and no-one can accurate predict what prices will do or what opportunities you may encounter.

>My wife has also recommended that I look into the Hamilton Soaring club as a more affordable alternative. I do have a softbound large-format copy of the FAA Glider Flying Handbook on my library shelf, just as an alternative.

As glider and power pilot/instructor I can highly recommend checking out the soaring club, not only do you get to fly but you will develop a lot of contacts and get to know and fly with people that can make the flying a lot more fun. Plus every flight is a lot more challenging and rewarding that power flying if you try to utilize the weather to extend the flight time.

Brian Case
CFIIG/ASEL
LS6b N1720

 

[Dry Creek]

- No, it's not too late.
- You'll get great medical advice from others on this forum
- Start training before passing the written. Get in that airplane sooner than later. You will only need the medical prior to solo, and that's a good 40-50 hours of flight time away.
- Plenty of options besides buying. A flying club sounds like a great option for you.

Thanks for the quick reply.
One piece of advice from my coworker was to get the medical part done before actually shelling out bucks for air time. He had surgery to fuse a couple of discs in his neck very early this year. He has not been able to get his medical signed off yet, and it has been before the FAA for over 6 months now. He was thinking it could have something to do with the fact he was prescribed HydroCodone or Oxycontin. Because of that I made certain that my orthopedic surgeon DID NOT prescribe any controlled pain relievers for me after this recent surgery. They don't really work for me anyway, but the OIC from them is certainly memorable!

The reason I laid out my training regimen as I did is because it fits in with the way we train new field operators in Nuclear Power. As a "crusty old guy" (20 years in Operations at my current plant, 24 years on site) I have high expectations for my trainees. When they come to me for a checkout or watchstation tour signoff, I expect that they have received the classroom training on the system(s), are capable of rendering a one-line functional drawing of the system, and can state (from memory) the power supplies of major components. These days the younger guys we have been hiring just show up and ask for the signature. I send them packing if they haven't completed their "homework" beforehand. Their excuse is usually "it's a training sig, you're supposed to train me!". I agree, but I train, not spoonfeed. I would expect no less from a CFI. When I show up for my discovery flight, I plan to ask if I can do it "soup to nuts". Conduct a basic preflight brief, go over weather and planned route. I would expect to be able to do a preflight inspection on the aircraft too, and use all of the checklists as I progress through the ride. I practice that stuff on the simulator now, including even pulling out my sectionals and plotting a basic course for example. I can't really sump the tanks and fuel strainer, and in MSFS the controls are always free and correct.

IS that a bad approach?

 

[somorris]

You have probably seen it here before, but a consultation with an AME before you actually go for your medical would be a good thing. It leaves you with options.

 

[Dry Creek]

>
The difference between recreational and Private is so small the you might as well do Private and not have the limitations of a recreational pilot certificate.
If the Medical is not an issue go for private pilot, otherwise go for Sport Pilot.
-> I have been looking at that just in case. At Granbury KGDJ, the flight school there has a J3 and a Luscombe, I think (think) that both of those fall under the convoluted LSA regulations.

Be sure about your medical. If you have been lurking very long you know the advise is consult a senior AME such as Bruce Chien, http://www.aeromedicaldoc.com/, if you have much of anything less than perfect health. A simple question on something you don't think will be an issue can easily avert a lot of problems you didn't expect.

-> Thanks for that link, I may need to check that out! Other than severely eroded joints from a missed diagnosis of Psoriatic Arthritis, I am in other great health. I had maintained my Fire Brigade physicals up until about three years ago when I moved to Ops Support as a Technical Writer. I have pored over the third class medical disqualifying conditions on the FAA website and in the FAR, and none of those have ever applied.

If you can't afford a plane now then rent or look for a club, also has the advantage that you can focus on just learning to fly as opposed to learning to fly and learning to own/maintain an airplane. Lots of people find that learning to fly can actually be more fun than the actual flying and no-one can accurate predict what prices will do or what opportunities you may encounter.

-> Well, it's not so much that I can't afford my projected mission-specific plane (C-150/152), It's just that weakness I undergo prying my wallet out of my back pocket. I am very mechanically inclined, and do almost all of the maintenance on our vehicles, motor home, tractors and other farm equipment. I have a very well stocked tool cabinet. Still, the allure of renting or joining a flying club appeals to the inner tightwad in me. I have been looking into airplane renters insurance too. Quite affordable for the peace of mind it offers. I will definitely have a policy in place before starting flight training. Hat tip to a discussion thread I read on this very forum about that.

As glider and power pilot/instructor I can highly recommend checking out the soaring club, not only do you get to fly but you will develop a lot of contacts and get to know and fly with people that can make the flying a lot more fun. Plus every flight is a lot more challenging and rewarding that power flying if you try to utilize the weather to extend the flight time.

-> You certainly do get a better feel for aeronautics it seems. One interesting "loophole" I came across surfing through aviation videos on You Tube was the school in Florida that can get you a license in a Pipestrel Sinus motor Glider in about 10 hours. They commented that it was very similar to PP-SEL in that you can fly cross country, at night (with proper collision avoidance lighting) and in controlled airspace (ADSB-out dependent). That's tempting, but the Sinus or Virus are eye-popping expensive! Besides, I am not sure if the Rotax is the way to go. Not knocking it, but wondering if they have enough flight time to compare against the Continental/Lycoming engines more commonly found in US avaiation.

Brian Case
CFIIG/ASEL
LS6b N1720

Thanks!
All solid advice.

 

[Dry Creek]

Just a few more wandering thoughts from an aging fellow:

Civil Air Patrol. There is a presence in Granbury (KGDJ), is that worth looking into for time building or other flight instruction?

AOPA. They offer a free six month membership for student pilots. I mean free is free, so it's probably worth signing up for - right? The $79 per year basic membership is not too drastic. I get the feeling that there are very mixed feelings about their effectiveness here on the board. I would assume they are about the same as the NRA, they try, but just can't seem to make everyone happy.

 

[Schokie]

Just a few more wandering thoughts from an aging fellow:

Civil Air Patrol. There is a presence in Granbury (KGDJ), is that worth looking into for time building or other flight instruction?

AOPA. They offer a free six month membership for student pilots. I mean free is free, so it's probably worth signing up for - right? The $79 per year basic membership is not too drastic. I get the feeling that there are very mixed feelings about their effectiveness here on the board. I would assume they are about the same as the NRA, they try, but just can't seem to make everyone happy.

I wouldn't bother with either one right now. It sounds like you already have an affordable option to use a decent plane and local instructor. I'd get your private first, then consider CAP.

Most of the intro to flying and flight training in CAP is for cadets. The assumption for adults is you already have your certificate and can fly the plane. But I do highly recommend it for anyone looking to have some purpose for their flying and an excuse to get in the air. Too many people get their certificate, quickly lose interest in flying around the pattern or going to a nearby airport and back, then just gradually stop flying. However, each squadron is a bit different. Some have highly experienced pilots who take the SAR role seriously, while others are just a nerdier Scout Troop.

AOPA does have a decent insurance rates for members, particularly for renters insurance. But I've found Avemco matches within a few dollars for the same coverage, so you're certainly not missing anything. AOPA has an ok magazine, but they don't publish anything you can't find for free here on POA. I'd join if you're interested in supporting an aviation lobby organization, which is helpful to us all, even if they do cater more and more to the jet crowd. But that's not going to help you fly more or keep you interested in aviation.

 

[Cluemeister]

These days the younger guys we have been hiring just show up and ask for the signature. I send them packing if they haven't completed their "homework" beforehand.

You’re assuming the written test is the homework required to be prepared for flying lessons. This is not correct. It is not cutting corners to do the written at the same time you start flight training. I would definitely recommend simultaneous flight training with an instructor and studying for the written.

 

[kath]

I send them packing if they haven't completed their "homework" beforehand... When I show up for my discovery flight, I plan to ask if I can do it "soup to nuts". Conduct a basic preflight brief, go over weather and planned route. I would expect to be able to do a preflight inspection on the aircraft too, and use all of the checklists as I progress through the ride...
...
IS that a bad approach?

Nope. There are a lot of different "approaches" to flight training. Some do all the written first, others do it in parallel with flights. Some want to drink everything from the firehose at once, others like to compartmentalize lessons (at least at first). Some can fly twice a day every day and want intensity, others have day jobs and are finding flying time around the edges.

You sound like the type of person who knows exactly how you like to learn, so say all of this -- what you've said to us -- to a prospective CFI. A good one will "get your vibe" and adapt to your style, while also explaining why they won't do things your way if there is a reason. For instance, most WILL let you (no... will WANT you to) do preflight and preflight-briefings from day one, but will wait to do weather and route planning until later in the syllabus.

CFI's are all different, so finding the right one is not finding the "best" one, but finding the best one FOR YOU and where you are in life. Don't be afraid to test-drive a few! You won't hurt their feelings if you say you'd rather fly with someone else.
Have fun!

 

[RRAT]

I am 65 and started pursuing my PPL last year. My partner is 71, and started along with me. It isn't too late, but do define what your mission is.
If you want to "learn to operate an airplane", just as a bucket list item check off, then you have essentially done that as soon as you can solo. You don't even need a medical as long as you don't do the actual "solo" flight. CFI's will usually be more than happy to fly around with you as much as you want since you pay them by the hour (yes, you pay them so they should tailor their instruction to your wants and needs). I would suggest starting with that goal, then when you get there decide if you want go on to the next step; cross country stuff.

 

[Randomskylane]

3 discovery flights seems like a waste.
Owning a plane is basically doubling the amount you need to learn and greatly increasing your risk (example-first annual could be 2k or 20k.)
FAA paperwork takes forever so get with an expert early (before seeing anyone or filling out forms)
Do you enjoy flying? You have done all these tasks (it seems) without actually flying

anyway good luck

 

[saracelica]

So your wife doesn't want to go farther then two hours by air. Do you think you'll want to stop that often in a trip? For me leaving nwohio and flying two hours barely gets me out of the state.

Don't get me wrong learning to fly an airplane was epic and useful for other things. Then my parents said they would never pick me up at the airport 10 minutes away because they didn't like the idea of me flying. So there goes that idea. Hung up my headset after getting my ir

 

[Half Fast]

1) No, you’re not too old.

2) Define your “mission” first. That will inform other decisions. Do you want to travel extensively, taking long trips with a spouse or others? Do you want to just go up for local sightseeing for a few hours once in a while? Take short weekend trips? Depending on your goals, you might conclude that Sport Pilot is all you need, and you could avoid the medical completely.

3) If you do want the medical and PP, have a consultation with an AME first, before filling out the med form. If your medical will be deferred, consider waiting to start training until it’s approved. There’s a significant backlog of applications right now and loooong delays.

4) Keep in mind that you could do Sport right now, without a medical, and then upgrade it to Private sometime down the road. That’s what I did. There’s no big disadvantage to this approach, and the upgrade to Private is pretty simple once any medical stuff is squared away.


Did you do the nuc school in Orlando? I knew a couple of folks there back in the mid ‘80s.

 

[midlifeflyer]

Owning a plane is basically doubling the amount you need to learn and greatly increasing your risk

I have to disagree with than blanket statement. Sure, get something complex enough and it's going to add hours, even if it's just insurance-mandated ones. But, besides knowing of pilot who did initial training in Mooneys an, in one case, a 210, there's a pretty wide range before you get to that. In the case of one pilot, he was getting frustrated with delays due to scheduling and maintenance at a busy flight school. He decided to buy a 182 since that fit his post-private mission. He figured it would take less time and end up costing less. Turned out o be right on both counts.

 

[donjohnston]

You will only need the medical prior to solo, and that's a good 40-50 hours of flight time away.

40-50 flight hours to solo???

 

[Jim Carpenter]

All good advice posted above. Your path till now sounds a lot like mine years ago. I was working overseas (Antarctica), and had decided I wanted to get my PPL after getting home. I ordered ground school books, and a couple of charts, and went through all of the studying, even without an E-6B (had time to derive wind triangles from basic trig). I could have sat and passed the knowledge test right away, but actually waited till maybe halfway through flight training. Anyway, it might be slightly better to wait a bit for the knowledge test, but you wouldn't be wrong to take it right away, either.
I'd have to vote on the side of "don't worry about owning a plane yet." Just start training with a rental. That said, there could be circumstances that might lean towards purchase, neighbor, or brother-in-law has a cherry 152 for sale, etc., but, mostly not.
Yes, get the medical consult, but straight-forward joint replacement should not be an issue.
I probably wouldn't spend the money on additional discovery flights, either. After the first one, you can probably assess the other schools just by a visit and talking with the CFIs.
Finally, just go for it!

oh, yeah, leave that CX3 calculator new in the box, see if you can sell it! You probably won't use it, or the whiz-wheel either, for that matter, after you get your license. (just an old fart's opinion)

 

[libertas]

Consult with AME before the medical. Be honest and tell him about EVERYTHING, as there are a lot of conditions that preclude you from a medical. Some are navigable problems, some are navigable at great time and cost, some aren't.

 

[Dry Creek]

Just a quick update - I sat down, cleared my head and took my first of five practice tests from ASA Prepware.
I made it as close to the real thing as possible. I sequestered myself in the wife's office, door closed and ALL reference material removed from the vicinity. I only had the allowed items on the desk in front of me, including my testing supplement (no markings in it).
I was surprised when it dawned on me that I never used my plotter nor my E6B! Must have been the luck of the draw, but one of the questions I missed was on GPS and how many satellites were required for a good fix (four, noy five you dummy) - so I guess I need to escape my troglodyte ways and adapt to the newer technology.
Not disappointed with my results, but after spending years learning by self-study and supplemental video explanations, I know I can do better!
I used right at one hour, and made 90% (54/60).
I was going to imbed an image of the test performance graph, but it looks like you can only link to images, and not directly load them into a post.
Basic Aerodynamics 3/3 100%
Aircraft Systems 3/3 100%
Flight Instruments 3/3 100%
Regulations 9/12 75% (needs work!)
Procedures and Airport Operations 6/6 100%
Weather 6/6 100%
Weather Service 6/6 100%
Aircraft Performance 6/6 100%
Enroute Flight 5/6 83%
Navigation 4/6 67% (embarrassing, GPS, VOR Orienter questions)
Communications Procedures 3/3 100%

Now I know where I need to spend more time studying. I also need to reinforce using my gut instinct. Two of those questions I allowed myself to justify the wrong answer when the correct one was screaming inside my head.

 

[Dry Creek]

So your wife doesn't want to go farther then two hours by air. Do you think you'll want to stop that often in a trip? For me leaving nwohio and flying two hours barely gets me out of the state.

It's not that my wife doesn't want to go further than two hours while cramped in a small cabin, it's a matter of biological functions. I guess you still have your gall bladder and are not pressing 60 and nearing susceptibility to DVT?

I live in Central Texas. Two hours might get me to the next county. Just kidding, but not very far off base. I don't mind making stops every two hours, or more if there is a sudden biological urge. I figure that's part of the trip. It's also why my wife loves the motor home. When those sudden urges hit, it's just unbuckle and trot to the bathroom in the middle of the coach.

 

[Dry Creek]

1) No, you’re not too old.

2) Define your “mission” first. That will inform other decisions. Do you want to travel extensively, taking long trips with a spouse or others? Do you want to just go up for local sightseeing for a few hours once in a while? Take short weekend trips? Depending on your goals, you might conclude that Sport Pilot is all you need, and you could avoid the medical completely.

3) If you do want the medical and PP, have a consultation with an AME first, before filling out the med form. If your medical will be deferred, consider waiting to start training until it’s approved. There’s a significant backlog of applications right now and loooong delays.

4) Keep in mind that you could do Sport right now, without a medical, and then upgrade it to Private sometime down the road. That’s what I did. There’s no big disadvantage to this approach, and the upgrade to Private is pretty simple once any medical stuff is squared away.


Did you do the nuc school in Orlando? I knew a couple of folks there back in the mid ‘80s.

It looks like my wife has helped to define my "mission". She has been sneaking peeks over my shoulder while I watch others fly out for their "$100 hamburger". She said that it sure would be nice to load up and fly out to the coast (Galveston, KGLS) for a quick lunch and walk on the beach. She is also open to flights out to some parts of West Texas.

I see a recurring theme - talk to the AME first. That seems to be sound advice, I will follow it. My goal is to knock out third class medical and then transition into BasicMed.

Yup, Orlando Nuke School, class 8104. Off to Idaho for prototype (S1W), San Diego for emergency repair welder school, and then to Norfolk for SSN-702 to EAOS.

 

[Dry Creek]

All good advice posted above. Your path till now sounds a lot like mine years ago. I was working overseas (Antarctica), and had decided I wanted to get my PPL after getting home. I ordered ground school books, and a couple of charts, and went through all of the studying, even without an E-6B (had time to derive wind triangles from basic trig). I could have sat and passed the knowledge test right away, but actually waited till maybe halfway through flight training. Anyway, it might be slightly better to wait a bit for the knowledge test, but you wouldn't be wrong to take it right away, either.
I'd have to vote on the side of "don't worry about owning a plane yet." Just start training with a rental. That said, there could be circumstances that might lean towards purchase, neighbor, or brother-in-law has a cherry 152 for sale, etc., but, mostly not.
Yes, get the medical consult, but straight-forward joint replacement should not be an issue.
I probably wouldn't spend the money on additional discovery flights, either. After the first one, you can probably assess the other schools just by a visit and talking with the CFIs.
Finally, just go for it!

oh, yeah, leave that CX3 calculator new in the box, see if you can sell it! You probably won't use it, or the whiz-wheel either, for that matter, after you get your license. (just an old fart's opinion)

Hmmm, about the "whizz wheel" and CX3 not being needed: Is that due to GPS and apps such as ForeFlight making them obsolete? The CX3 does make W&B calculations pretty easy.
I keep my network of family and friends informed about my dream of a cream puff trainer for pennies on the dollar. Just in case they remember some distant relative who gave up flying and parked the old bird in a dusty, forgotten hangar. I am certainly not in the market for a complex airplane at this time.

 

[Half Fast]

Yup, Orlando Nuke School, class 8104.

Did you happen to know a Greg Vanarsdale?

 

[Half Fast]

It looks like my wife has helped to define my "mission". She has been sneaking peeks over my shoulder while I watch others fly out for their "$100 hamburger". She said that it sure would be nice to load up and fly out to the coast (Galveston, KGLS) for a quick lunch and walk on the beach. She is also open to flights out to some parts of West Texas.

I see a recurring theme - talk to the AME first. That seems to be sound advice, I will follow it. My goal is to knock out third class medical and then transition into BasicMed.

Yup, Orlando Nuke School, class 8104. Off to Idaho for prototype (S1W), San Diego for emergency repair welder school, and then to Norfolk for SSN-702 to EAOS.

You can easily do that mission with a Sport ticket in an LSA.

 

[Half Fast]

I keep my network of family and friends informed about my dream of a cream puff trainer for pennies on the dollar. Just in case they remember some distant relative who gave up flying and parked the old bird in a dusty, forgotten hangar. I am certainly not in the market for a complex airplane at this time.

Airplanes bought for pennies on the dollar often end up costing AMUs on the dollar to make and keep them airworthy. You have been warned.

 

[Dry Creek]

Did you happen to know a Greg Vanarsdale?

It's been so long, I am lucky to remember all the "fun" of being on M20 study hours. That name seems vaguely familiar, But I couldn't put a face to it. Student or instructor?

 

[Jim Carpenter]

Hmmm, about the "whizz wheel" and CX3 not being needed: Is that due to GPS and apps such as ForeFlight making them obsolete?

Yes, that's the premise. Modern flight planning apps, etc., make any of those calculations such as fuel burn, wind corrections, time enroute, and weight and balance, easy. That's not to downplay the importance of understanding fundamentals at the training level at all. I like my students to have a good grasp of wind triangles, w&b, and the basic arithmetic used for time and distance, but once licensed, with many hours in a logbook, real-world, they'll be using some flight-planning app. Personally, I think the whiz-wheel E6B does that just fine, especially the wind problems. (But, don't mind me, I think I've still got a yellow metal Pickett slide rule somewhere in the desk!)

 

[Half Fast]

It's been so long, I am lucky to remember all the "fun" of being on M20 study hours. That name seems vaguely familiar, But I couldn't put a face to it. Student or instructor?

Instructor. He and I were physics students together as undergrads.

 

[Dry Creek]

Instructor. He and I were physics students together as undergrads.

The only thing I remember about the instructors was that my Heat Transfer and Fluid Flow instructor introduced me to a new term - he informed us that he was a special breed on Navy Officer; A Direct Input Limited Duty Officer. Forty years later and I still remember that one.

 

[Dry Creek]

TESTING ENVIRONMENT:

Has anyone recently taken a test at a PSI facility? If so, could you please describe the test environment?
How much space do you have to spread out your "stuff"?
Nice and quiet, free from external distractions?
Generally very busy/crowded?
Obviously the test is presented by computer, how large is the monitor?
What are the navigation controls like? I hope they are similar to what I experienced through the ASA Test Prep site.
How many pieces of scratch paper? I like to write down my calculations as I do them, and then review before selecting my answer, and to take notes of anything I feel I may need to revisit before submitting the exam.

Thanks!

 

[Dana]

Some random thoughts:

As others have said, define your mission first. The plane you want to own, or rent, and even the best instructor, will be different depending on what your ultimate goals are. Even though theyre both working towards a Private at first, the "best" training envorinment for a guy who wants to fly a 182 IFR for vacation is different from what the guy who wants to hit backcountry strips in a Super Cub (or do aerobatics in a Pitts or fly an antique or homebuilt to fly-ins or whatever). The requirements are the same, but the emphasis may be different. For gliders, of course, it's a completely different training environment.

The Recreational Pilot certificate is pretty much obsolete. It was kind of a first attempt at Sport Pilot, but with nearly the same requirements (including medical) and reduced privileges it's really pointless, very few were ever issued.

Before you even contact an AME for a medical, look at the old FAA form 8500-8. It's no longer used, the application has to be made online through MedExpress nowadays, but you can find old pdf copies online. In particular, the prescription drugs list in section 17 and the "have you ever" questions in section 18, if ANY are yes do some research before applying for real.

Buying a plane... for some it's a good idea, for others it's a bad idea. If you're mechanically inclined, if for example you're the kind of guy who could own an old sports car (and enjoy maintaining it), that kind of thing, you might be in the "good idea" crowd. And don't overlook experimentals, they can be the best bang for the buck in many cases.

I haven't used my E6-B since I passed the checkride and haven't used my plotter or a paper sectional since electronic charts became a thing.

Go to some local fly-ins (google "fly-in calendar" or "eaa fly-ins" and talk to people, it's a very different flying crowd than you see hanging out at the local FBO. You might like it, or you might not.

 

[Terry M - 3CK (Chicago)]

Just wanted to re emphasize.

When consulting with the AME DO NOT submit the online / Medexpress forms.

You’re just going to meet/talk with him. No FAA Exam.

If you fill out the online form he is required to submit something to the FAA.

If during your consultation s/he tells you the 3rd class will be a challenge or potential special issuance etc.

STOP - you can still fly Sport Pilot in an LSA with your state drivers license as your medical.

If there was paperwork and you get deferred, the AME has to submit that to the FAA and Sport Pilot is no longer an option.

 

[Dry Creek]

So, while poking around the internet I came upon a pretty interesting resource: LeftSeat dot com, Pilot medical solutions. On it they have a couple of free questionnaires and tests. The color test was useful, I had no issues (never have), and I found a link where they had a list of "typically approved medications". I found two of my medications are typically approved, but one only on an individual basis. So, it looks like the third class medical may take longer than usual due to extra processing time. What the heck, Levothyroxine (hypothyroidism) isn't like some type of mood altering drug. Before I started taking it my skin was dry and flaky all over. Are they worried that I will be distracted by scratching an itch or something?

ETA - Sport Pilot may limit me to Granbury (KGDJ). That flight school has one or two in their fleet (Luscombe, yes, Super Cub - maybe) that qualify for LSA. I didn't see Sport Pilot - LSA as an offering on their website though. In fact, I'm not aware of any place close to me with LSA for rent. Oh woe is me...

 

[Half Fast]

I'm on levothyroxine ("synthroid") and it wasn't a problem at all. Other things slowed down my class 3.

For Sport training, some people will travel to a school that specializes and do a fast-track program that let's them knock it out in two or three weeks. Be aware that wx can blow this plan out of the sky, though.

If you go that route, after getting your ticket there might not be LSAs for rent and you might have to buy your own. There are options for that ranging from sub-$30k to $200k or so.

 

[Cluemeister]

40-50 flight hours to solo???

Ooops! That's to get the ticket. But at 59, he may not solo until 20-25 hours. Still a lot of flying time with a CFI to determine how much he likes flying.

 

[Initial Fix]

Ooops! That's to get the ticket. But at 59, he may not solo until 20-25 hours. Still a lot of flying time with a CFI to determine how much he likes flying.

im glad someone else saw this too. I read 50 to solo and thought someone might want a different hobby. In my experience, solo in the teens is typical.

 

[Ashlyn Maria]

TESTING ENVIRONMENT:

Has anyone recently taken a test at a PSI facility? If so, could you please describe the test environment?

I took my ppl written in July at a PSI center. It was a very small building. The testing "booths" are little cubicles big enough to fit a large man and an 18-20" computer monitor.
I didn't use the ASA test prep site, so not sure how navigation compares. The test is quite straight forward but it didn't give me the option to review my missed answers (which was a bummer). I did use the ASA Test Prep book as a study tool. It's the best way to prepare for the written, IMO.
The atmosphere was so quiet you could hear a mouse squeak. Earmuffs were offered to shut out all noise.
There was plenty of space on the desk to "spread out" my calculator, pencil, and plotter and E6B. I didn't use my E6B at all throughout the test, though I did bring it along. Don't bring any of your books...You can't use them. They will provide you as much scratch paper as you need as well as a test prep supplement.

Good luck! You'll do great.

Sent from my SM-A515U using Tapatalk

 

[Jim Carpenter]

A quick perusal of AOPA's med info turns this up, Levothyroxine doesn't appear to be a showstopper, but may require some initial hoops to jump through. (I'm not a med expert)
As mentioned by others, just go get a consult with an AME.

 

[Bill Watson]

It’s good to define one’s ‘mission’ before taking the next step in any aspect of sport aviation, but in the beginning the mission is to train and achieve the first levels of certification. Perhaps the more important question at this stage is, “what is basis of interest in flying”? Or “what aspects of flight seem to interest you the most”?

With that in mind, consider soaring and the Hamilton club as a possible answer. I started flying RC models as a teen, soloed at 17 and now in my late 60s fly a home built all over the country. I’ve owned 4 aircraft over that time. But ask what kind of pilot I am and the answer is a glider pilot. That’s always been the most rewarding and attractive flying for me even though I haven’t done any serious glider flying in over 20 years. Oh, 2 aircraft were sailplanes, 2 were SEL planes.

What gliding and a glider club can offer is chance to feed that urge to fly; the challenge of learning the aircraft, stick and rudder work, handling the wind and reading the weather, learning basic flight operations and then learning to soar with the birds. You can do all that at a reasonable price point but more important, in an active glider club, you may find a social scene, centered around flying and the airport, that may give you satisfaction of interacting with other flying obsessed sport flyers. Your mate might even enjoy the scene, especially if you have an RV.

Soaring isn’t for everyone but it’s worth a look to see if it might be for you. BTW, TX has some of the best soaring conditions in the country, so there’s that.

BW - Commercial Pilot SE, ME, Glider, Instrument, Tailwheel, Sailplane Racer


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Ed Haywood]

Definitely have not missed the boat, not by a mile. Just do it!!

PP-SEL is the time proven path to becoming a pilot. Sport/rec is a short cut, and will have frustrating limitations.

I would not overthink the learning process. Do the studying, pass the test, find a good CFI, and trust him or her to teach you what you need to know. Having said that, sims are great to mentally rehearse what you are going to do. Just don't expect the physical skills to transfer.

Never flown a sailplane, but I figure that since most of us SEL pilots live in fear of suddenly becoming glider pilots, it must be a pretty good challenge and a great way to develop flying skills.