New ForeFlight Nav Editor - why change what wasn't broken?

Fearless Tower

Fearless Tower

Touchdown! Greaser!
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Fearless Tower
Is there anyway to revert back to the older route editor in ForeFlight?

The latest version replaced the cruise speed and fuel burn blocks with a single tab for Aircraft Performance Profile. At the same time they eliminated the 'Reverse' feature that allowed you to reverse your route.

I found both previous functions to be very useful, particularly being able to quickly play around with the cruise speed. Is there an easy way to do that? This new menu both sucks and blows at the same time.
 
FF is all about adding features, even if they make things more difficult or few people actually use it.
 
Fearless Tower said:
Is there anyway to revert back to the older route editor in ForeFlight?

The latest version replaced the cruise speed and fuel burn blocks with a single tab for Aircraft Performance Profile. At the same time they eliminated the 'Reverse' feature that allowed you to reverse your route.

I found both previous functions to be very useful, particularly being able to quickly play around with the cruise speed. Is there an easy way to do that? This new menu both sucks and blows at the same time.
Click to expand...

I would email them...tell them their **** sucks
 
They reinvent the wheel every so often, then charge a premium to use it . There is only so far you can go with EFB apps development, so a little reinvention is expected now and then... gives the impression that the "new and improved" version is worth having.
 
I've found they are very receptive to customer input. If enough people complain it may get taken care of.
 
My complaint is that if you load a previously approved flight plan, it puts every stinkin waypoint into the nav log. EVERY ONE!
 
Fearless Tower said:
Is there anyway to revert back to the older route editor in ForeFlight?

The latest version replaced the cruise speed and fuel burn blocks with a single tab for Aircraft Performance Profile. At the same time they eliminated the 'Reverse' feature that allowed you to reverse your route.

I found both previous functions to be very useful, particularly being able to quickly play around with the cruise speed. Is there an easy way to do that? This new menu both sucks and blows at the same time.
Click to expand...
I have the most recent update and the reverse button is there and works.

Are you certain you have the most current build? After 9.1 was sent out came two rapid bug fixes, one was, I think yesterday. I'm on version 9.1.2. Perhaps the disappearing Reverse button was a bug that has been fixed.

That's actually the bigger issue to me. I've been a FF user for 6 years. Rarely have I seen bug fix versions. Two bug fix builds in rapid succession is a bit disconcerting. As it gets more complex, there may be more of them.
 
You can also type in the speed, fuel burn, and desired altitude in the same area as your origin, destination, and waypoints.

So if you typed in KDTO KAFW KACT 5000msl 135kts 14gph, it will pick up the performance items from what you have typed and use those over any defaults.

 
Fearless Tower said:
The latest version replaced the cruise speed and fuel burn blocks with a single tab for Aircraft Performance Profile.
Click to expand...

Try it before you knock it - You can finally put climb/cruise/descent performance info in.

Also, you can still just type it in like you always could: 06C KUES 170 3500 12gph will take you from 06C to KUES at 170 knots, 3500 feet, and 12 gallons per hour.

At the same time they eliminated the 'Reverse' feature that allowed you to reverse your route.
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Reverse has not been eliminated - Just moved slightly. Instead of being in the column of buttons with Procedure, Routes, and ETD, it's just moved right next to the Clear button... Maybe an inch from where it was, but I must admit it threw me for a loop too the first time I used it.

I found both previous functions to be very useful, particularly being able to quickly play around with the cruise speed. Is there an easy way to do that? This new menu both sucks and blows at the same time.
Click to expand...

Curious... Why would you "quickly play around with the cruise speed"?
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Curious... Why would you "quickly play around with the cruise speed"?
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Don't know his, but I can see one. I might want to see the difference in flight duration between going at max power vs max efficiency or at different power settings to make a fuel use cost/benefit analysis.

Or, if you are a renter or club member with multiple aircraft to choose from it's a quick way to make that decision. Do I take the Mooney or spend far less taking the Cherokee?
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Curious... Why would you "quickly play around with the cruise speed"?
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I do a lot of aircraft delivery/ferrying. When a potential customer requests a quote for a given aircraft, I can just change the cruise speed for the default aircraft without having to enter a whole new aircraft.

In other words, I can leave the Beech 18 as default and simply change the cruise speed for route planning for a Cub.

I see what you are saying about the reverse button. It's there, just not where I was used to seeing it.
 
midlifeflyer said:
I have the most recent update and the reverse button is there and works.

Are you certain you have the most current build? After 9.1 was sent out came two rapid bug fixes, one was, I think yesterday. I'm on version 9.1.2. Perhaps the disappearing Reverse button was a bug that has been fixed.

That's actually the bigger issue to me. I've been a FF user for 6 years. Rarely have I seen bug fix versions. Two bug fix builds in rapid succession is a bit disconcerting. As it gets more complex, there may be more of them.
Click to expand...

I must have missed the updates. Mine says just 9.1.

Thanks.
 
Fearless Tower said:
I do a lot of aircraft delivery/ferrying. When a potential customer requests a quote for a given aircraft, I can just change the cruise speed for the default aircraft without having to enter a whole new aircraft.

In other words, I can leave the Beech 18 as default and simply change the cruise speed for route planning for a Cub.
Click to expand...

Ah, I see. In this case I think typing the airspeed is probably the easiest choice.
 
midlifeflyer said:
Don't know his, but I can see one. I might want to see the difference in flight duration between going at max power vs max efficiency or at different power settings to make a fuel use cost/benefit analysis.

Or, if you are a renter or club member with multiple aircraft to choose from it's a quick way to make that decision. Do I take the Mooney or spend far less taking the Cherokee?
Click to expand...

These are actually great cases to use the new aircraft performance profiles. You can create a profile called "N12345 max power" and another called "N12345 max efficiency" and flip between them instead of having to change BOTH the airspeed and the fuel burn... And you'll never get a wrong result because you only changed one and not the other.

Likewise, if you're a club member, set up a profile for each of the planes and you can easily flip all the parameters between them.

I actually set up Low, Mid, and High profiles for the Mooney. Mid is for medium or long range trips at the optimum cruising altitudes (7000-11000 or so), with a 1000 fpm climb rate and 175 knot cruise. Low is for short trips (where climbing to the optimum altitudes doesn't make sense) cruising at 6000 and below, with a high climb rate (1500 fpm) and slightly slower airspeed. High is for trips where I need to clear terrain or go high over water and I'll be cruising above 12000, with the airspeed back down but the fuel burn down with it and the climb rate lower (so it averages out).

Now, in Fearless Tower's case where he's going to be looking at scenarios with unfamiliar airplanes that he's only going to fly once, it doesn't make as much sense to set up a performance profile, so just typing the numbers right into the flight plan is still an option and the best one in his case.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
These are actually great cases to use the new aircraft performance profiles. You can create a profile called "N12345 max power" and another called "N12345 max efficiency" and flip between them instead of having to change BOTH the airspeed and the fuel burn... And you'll never get a wrong result because you only changed one and not the other.

Likewise, if you're a club member, set up a profile for each of the planes and you can easily flip all the parameters between them.

I actually set up Low, Mid, and High profiles for the Mooney. Mid is for medium or long range trips at the optimum cruising altitudes (7000-11000 or so), with a 1000 fpm climb rate and 175 knot cruise. Low is for short trips (where climbing to the optimum altitudes doesn't make sense) cruising at 6000 and below, with a high climb rate (1500 fpm) and slightly slower airspeed. High is for trips where I need to clear terrain or go high over water and I'll be cruising above 12000, with the airspeed back down but the fuel burn down with it and the climb rate lower (so it averages out).

Now, in Fearless Tower's case where he's going to be looking at scenarios with unfamiliar airplanes that he's only going to fly once, it doesn't make as much sense to set up a performance profile, so just typing the numbers right into the flight plan is still an option and the best one in his case.
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In terms of switching aircraft, yes. But I don't want to add multiple profiles for a single aircraft since I have a "default" performance profile I fly 95% of the time . Much easier to just change the airspeed. I can ballpark the fuel burn difference mentally.
 
I dunno know about you guys but reverse rarely works for those of us flying in Calif - esp IFR.
 
comanchepilot said:
I dunno know about you guys but reverse rarely works for those of us flying in Calif - esp IFR.
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Nor much of anywhere else where routing gets complex. But, even then, if you use the routing feature that brings up common clearances, putting one of those in replaces the old gobbledegook with new gobbledygook, so it can still be quicker than viewing and starting from scratch.
 
My take on the change was it was geared at professional pilots that fly multiple aircraft and multiple types, rather than GA pilots. It does allow more accurate fuel estimation, as well as trip times. In reality for me I am not sure it make much difference, the numbers are within 2 or 3 % of what they were before. Those number are still within variation of real flight vs. planning. For me it just adds a one time more steps to program.

Maybe if you are going 3000 miles and burning 100's of lbs per hour it means a lot more.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
luvflyin said:
Where did brief and file go??????
Click to expand...
It's now part of the Flights tab. Create a flight plan in Maps, send to Flights, edit as needed, and then Proceed to File, where you can brief.

Hmm. I'm not seeing a brief option on the File page for a flight I'm planning for Monday. I've briefed before from that page though, so most likely it's because the flight is too far in the future.
 
Okay minor issue: is there any way to change the current fuel on board so that the Flights page navlog correctly calculates fuel remaining? This is not terribly important since everyone can do simple arithmetic, but it would be nice to have control over how much fuel the app thinks I have. As far as I can tell, it will simply take the remaining fuel from your last leg and there is no way to update it after fueling.
 
azure said:
It's now part of the Flights tab. Create a flight plan in Maps, send to Flights, edit as needed, and then Proceed to File, where you can brief.

Hmm. I'm not seeing a brief option on the File page for a flight I'm planning for Monday. I've briefed before from that page though, so most likely it's because the flight is too far in the future.
Click to expand...
Got it. Thanks. 9.1.3 just came out. Bug fixes and improved stability.
 
azure said:
Okay minor issue: is there any way to change the current fuel on board so that the Flights page navlog correctly calculates fuel remaining? This is not terribly important since everyone can do simple arithmetic, but it would be nice to have control over how much fuel the app thinks I have. As far as I can tell, it will simply take the remaining fuel from your last leg and there is no way to update it after fueling.
Click to expand...
Disregard. They've removed the fuel remaining feature entirely from 9.1.3, at least at my subscription level - legacy Pro. (Might have been 9.1.2 as well, I first noticed it under 9.1 and never checked after that.)
 
midlifeflyer said:
In terms of switching aircraft, yes. But I don't want to add multiple profiles for a single aircraft since I have a "default" performance profile I fly 95% of the time . Much easier to just change the airspeed. I can ballpark the fuel burn difference mentally.
Click to expand...

So make your default the default. ;) Since I make more short trips than anything, my "Low" is my default.

drotto said:
My take on the change was it was geared at professional pilots that fly multiple aircraft and multiple types, rather than GA pilots. It does allow more accurate fuel estimation, as well as trip times.
Click to expand...

I think there may be some confusion here.

There are two new performance calculation methods, essntially - One is for everyone, but if you're a turbine driver there's one that's geared towards you and costs another $100/year.

That latter one is definitely geared at professional pilots. The former is for everyone. Some of the videos may have been a bit confusing on that point.

luvflyin said:
Where did brief and file go??????
Click to expand...

It's called Flights now, and it's in the same spot where File & Brief used to be in the toolbar.
 
Tried to file today under the flights tab,was unsuccessful probably operator errror . Will try again later.
 
Filed today via FF as I started engine. 5 minutes later as I emerged from the hangar rows, ground advised they had my clearance on request when I was ready to copy. So that worked out well and quickly. Method was putting all in on the maps screen, "sending" to flights tab. Reviewing details (such as souls on board and destination contact), then submitting to Leidos Flight Service.

The brief button did get moved from where we have been used to it for so long. For iPad, It's now a green and white icon just below the ETA for the flight. Between Navlog and messages at top of screen.
 
AggieMike88 said:
The brief button did get moved from where we have been used to it for so long. For iPad, It's now a green and white icon just below the ETA for the flight. Between Navlog and messages at top of screen.
Click to expand...
Right, and just for complete clarity: it's on the Flights page itself, not the File page.
 
AggieMike88 said:
You can also type in the speed, fuel burn, and desired altitude in the same area as your origin, destination, and waypoints.
Click to expand...

This no longer works for me... can anyone reproduce this behavior?
 
GeorgeC said:
This no longer works for me... can anyone reproduce this behavior?
Click to expand...

Me too. I tried it the other day to play with a PC12 type profile. But it would default to my Lance profile. I figured I had to create a complete profile if I wanted something other than the Lance specs.
 
Bummer:
Pilot’s Guide to FOREFLIGHT MOBILE said:
The selected aircraft’s performance profile is used because fuel burn and true airspeed cannot be entered in the Search box.
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IMG_0342.PNG Just tried inputting speeds and GPH different from my default into the EDIT space (not the search in the upper right) and it appears to work as @GeorgeC wants....

Basic profile is 130kts and 13.5 GPH
 
You are right, thanks. I got into the habit of typing routes into the search box. It's not clear to me a) why the search box ignores (but still displays) speeds and fuel burns b) why the two boxes should behave differently c) why you need the search box at all. Good thing I'm not a ux/ui person...
 
I too was used to doing it up there since that's how you quickly input the details on the iPhone version.
 
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