New Dual GI 275 Bundles -Promo

I do wonder what their pricing strategy is. For the cost of this bundle you can get a G3 7 inch panel.
 
WDD said:
I do wonder what their pricing strategy is. For the cost of this bundle you can get a G3 7 inch panel.
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I think their strategy is to offer something at every conceivable price point to squeeze out all competitors. :) Keep in mind the install cost of the G3x is likely higher, requiring structural structural panel mods and potentially a new overlay.
 
WDD said:
I do wonder what their pricing strategy is. For the cost of this bundle you can get a G3 7 inch panel.
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The G3 is just a display screen, like a monitor for your computer. If you investigate what needs to be purchased to make it useful, you'll find it costs far more than two GI275's.
 
WDD said:
I do wonder what their pricing strategy is. For the cost of this bundle you can get a G3 7 inch panel.
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Doesn't the G3x require a G5 for backup whereas a pair of GI275's back up each other?
 
asicer said:
Doesn't the G3x require a G5 for backup whereas a pair of GI275's back up each other?
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Yes, the GI275's back each other up. It's legal for the 2 GI275's to replace the entire six pack of instruments and still be legal IFR for most airplanes. Both GI275's must be the ADI version with a display fail switch. On power up, the HSI instrument will power up as an HSI even though it has an AHRS. I have been quoted between about 52-60 hours of labor to install a dual GI275 system integrated with an autopilot and waas navigator.
 
I've seen different info on this, wondering if anyone knows for certain.

I have a Piper Altimac IIIC. I know there's an adapter that will allow me to replace my HI and run that autopilot off my heading bug. My understanding was that if I also wanted to replace my AI, I'd have to retain the old vacuum gyro to run the autopilot. However, some of the info I've read on the GI 275s suggest that's not the case.

I don't really want to spend the money on an autopilot upgrade when the one I have works well enough for my needs but being able to get rid of the whole vacuum system and having something more reliable is something I would be interested in. Is this something I could actually do and still be IFR certified?
 
cowman said:
I have a Piper Altimac IIIC. I know there's an adapter that will allow me to replace my HI and run that autopilot off my heading bug. My understanding was that if I also wanted to replace my AI, I'd have to retain the old vacuum gyro to run the autopilot. However, some of the info I've read on the GI 275s suggest that's not the case.
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Yes, I believe the GI275 can replace your AI without having to retain the old vacuum AI.
https://static.garmin.com/pumac/gi275_autopilot_compatibility_c.pdf
upload_2021-6-2_14-11-49.png
 
One other thing... I understand my altimac IIIC is the same thing as a Century III mechanically speaking.

But for STC/certification purposes does the FAA agree with that statement or does it need to be explicitly listed by name?
 
cowman said:
I've seen different info on this, wondering if anyone knows for certain.

I have a Piper Altimac IIIC. I know there's an adapter that will allow me to replace my HI and run that autopilot off my heading bug. My understanding was that if I also wanted to replace my AI, I'd have to retain the old vacuum gyro to run the autopilot. However, some of the info I've read on the GI 275s suggest that's not the case.

I don't really want to spend the money on an autopilot upgrade when the one I have works well enough for my needs but being able to get rid of the whole vacuum system and having something more reliable is something I would be interested in. Is this something I could actually do and still be IFR certified?
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Hi there, yes you can run that autopilot from a set of dual GI275's, and ditch the vacuum system and old AI and TC. You will need (2) GI275 ADI+AP instruments. Both must have the AP interface since the ADI will drive the autopilot attitude reference and the HSI will drive the autopilot heading/navigation interface. The HSI is a full ADI instrument, but will power up and display the HSI as default unless there is a primary ADI failure or manual fail switch.

Basically you have to have two identical GI275's - one is configured as an attitude indicator, the other as an HSI indicator. Make sense?
 
cowman said:
One other thing... I understand my altimac IIIC is the same thing as a Century III mechanically speaking.

But for STC/certification purposes does the FAA agree with that statement or does it need to be explicitly listed by name?
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Garmin lists a note in the installation manual stating that the Altimatic III was equivalent to the Century III and is allowed. See attachment, or page C-13 in the 190-02246-10 REV 7 manual.
 

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What does this setup give me that a pair if G5’s doesn’t for less? Curious as I will be in the market for an upgrade soon.
 
As just someone who reads too many posts on this topic:
  • The 275 provides a gateway to your 650/750 so you don’t have to buy an additional flight stream.
  • It has better, sharper, brighter graphics.
 
WDD said:
As just someone who reads too many posts on this topic:
  • The 275 provides a gateway to your 650/750 so you don’t have to buy an additional flight stream.
  • It has better, sharper, brighter graphics.
Click to expand...

The GI275 AI will also drive some legacy AP units while the G5 does not.
 
Morgan3820 said:
What does this setup give me that a pair if G5’s doesn’t for less? Curious as I will be in the market for an upgrade soon.
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The GI275's are also able to have multiple GPS and NAV inputs as a primary CDI. 2 GPS, 2 NAV. They are able to drive nearly all legacy autopilots, many in both attitude and heading/nav, and are compatible with many navigators while the G5 is basically Garmin series only.
 
Morgan3820 said:
What does this setup give me that a pair if G5’s doesn’t for less? Curious as I will be in the market for an upgrade soon.
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I believe the GI275 will also interface with a KX155/KX170 while a G5 will not.

It also has syn vis, moving map and can act as a simple CDI.
 
asicer said:
I believe the GI275 will also interface with a KX155/KX170 while a G5 will not.

It also has syn vis, moving map and can act as a simple CDI.
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Yes, two GI275s can do nearly everything that a G3x can, you just don't have the fancy looking piece of glass. At ~1/2 the price, I'm fine with that, and we're next to go into the shop. Looking forward to it!
 
Bill said:
Yes, two GI275s can do nearly everything that a G3x can,
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This is finally clicking for me - and I wonder if this is also a fine first step for those who want to eventually get a 3X, as the dual 275s will serve as the required AHRS back up. I wonder if the work to put in the 275s can also be used/save a few steps in installing a 3X??
 
WDD said:
save a few steps in installing a 3X??
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the biggest cost of 3X is cutting the panel , building the overlay etc and throwing away old crap (which should have been done if your panel has 2 275s)
 
WannFly said:
the biggest cost of 3X is cutting the panel , building the overlay etc and throwing away old crap (which should have been done if your panel has 2 275s)
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Yes, we're going to ditch the whole King KCS-55A HSI system, all of it's boxes, wiring etc. as well as ditch the KG258 AI, vac pump, and vac system. We will have the two GI175s drive the legacy KFC-200 AP, and be in a fine position to upgrade to the GFC500 AP if/when the old King AP dies out.
 
Would it be as simple as replacing 2 and 5? But as your new 275 HSI has a glide slope, what do you do with your two legacy glide slope / VOR instruments to the right of 3 and 4? Any thought to rip out 1, 3, 4, 6, and just have your twin 275's? Is there a way to switch the input to your new 275 HSI, in case your Garmin 650 goes out and you need to use your back up Nav radio?


Cessna-172-Instrument-Panel.jpg
 
N Everson said:
The GI275's are also able to have multiple GPS and NAV inputs as a primary CDI. 2 GPS, 2 NAV. They are able to drive nearly all legacy autopilots, many in both attitude and heading/nav, and are compatible with many navigators while the G5 is basically Garmin series only.
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The Garman, brochure lists the century III auto pilot as compatible with G5. Which is what I have in my Arrow. I know you have to buy an adapter to convert it from analog to digital.
 
Morgan3820 said:
The Garman, brochure lists the century III auto pilot as compatible with G5. Which is what I have in my Arrow. I know you have to buy an adapter to convert it from analog to digital.
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The Century needs 2 things from your vacuum instruments: course/heading and attitude.

The G5 can supply course/heading but cannot supply attitude. The GI275 can do both.
 
upload_2021-6-3_11-37-58.jpeg

So, we're replacing #2 and #5. Nav 1 (GNS430W) already is sent to the 55A (#5), so the nav 1 output will go to the lower GI275. Our Nav 2 goes to the other nav head to the right of the VSI, and we will keep that as having a backup GS isn't a bad thing. Likewise, we're keeping the rest of the 6 pack, it all works, and all but the TC will work even if all the lights go out. Nice to have as a backup even though the 275s have internal backup batteries.
 
asicer said:
The Century needs 2 things from your vacuum instruments: course/heading and attitude.

The G5 can supply course/heading but cannot supply attitude. The GI275 can do both.
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I am really confused.
 
Morgan3820 said:
I am really confused.
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Here's what your system looks like now. A G5 can replace the DG in the diagram but cannot replace the AH. A GI275 can replace either or both.

upload_2021-6-3_9-31-58.png
 
asicer said:
Here's what your system looks like now. A G5 can replace the DG in the diagram but cannot replace the AH. A GI275 can replace either or both.

View attachment 96919
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Ok, then why does the Garmin G5 manual list being compatible with the Century III ap? I am sorry to press this but this was not what I was led to understand by others. The G5 works for me at a price I can work with. The GI 275, not so much. I know that I am hijacking the thread somewhat.
 
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Morgan3820 said:
Ok, then why does the Garmin G5 manual list being compatible with the Century III ap?
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I suppose Garmin's marketing department decided that being able to replace the DG (but not the AH) counts as being "compatible".
 
Necessary but not sufficient
 
Morgan3820 said:
Ok, then why does the Garmin G5 manual list being compatible with the Century III ap? I am sorry to press this but this was not what I was led to understand by others. The G5 works for me at a price I can work with. The GI 275, not so much. I know that I am hijacking the thread somewhat.
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There are two pieces to this. It's easy to provide heading and course inputs into an autopilot, and most HSI replacements can do so including the G5. However the Century and Altimatic series autopilots are ATTITUDE based, which means they need an attitude indicator that provides pitch and roll to the autopilot computer in addition to course and heading control. The G5 cannot provide ATTITUDE data to anything more than the GFC500.

The GI275 can provide attitude AND course/heading information to a wide range of legacy and current attitude based autopilots which makes them one of the only options for getting rid of the vacuum powered gyro systems while keeping a legacy autopilot working. Many of us are stuck with a legacy autopilot since newer autopilots either cost a bloody fortune or are not yet approved, so the GI275 gives us a path forward to all digital flight information while keeping our existing autopilots.
 
N Everson said:
There are two pieces to this. It's easy to provide heading and course inputs into an autopilot, and most HSI replacements can do so including the G5. However the Century and Altimatic series autopilots are ATTITUDE based, which means they need an attitude indicator that provides pitch and roll to the autopilot computer in addition to course and heading control. The G5 cannot provide ATTITUDE data to anything more than the GFC500.

The GI275 can provide attitude AND course/heading information to a wide range of legacy and current attitude based autopilots which makes them one of the only options for getting rid of the vacuum powered gyro systems while keeping a legacy autopilot working. Many of us are stuck with a legacy autopilot since newer autopilots either cost a bloody fortune or are not yet approved, so the GI275 gives us a path forward to all digital flight information while keeping our existing autopilots.
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Yes, apparently the S-tec ap are rate based which works with the G5.
But, looking at the Aspen E5, it will work with the century ap. Looking to that direction now. Plus , it can be up graded to SV if desired.
 
WDD said:
As just someone who reads too many posts on this topic:
  • The 275 provides a gateway to your 650/750 so you don’t have to buy an additional flight stream.
  • It has better, sharper, brighter graphics.
Click to expand...
Tales from the Crypt!

Instead of opening a new thread, I figured my comments would blend into this old one.

I upgraded my panel (182-S) with a pair of GI275’s and a GFC 500 A/P to replace the original Crown III package/KAP 140 AS. I, as well, hoped that I could dispense with the FS 510 in the 650 GTN and upload databases and flight plans into the 650 via a 275. Not so…. Databases can be pushed from a GTN to a 275 but not the reverse. :( Another quirk is, since the second 275 is the reversionary fail down for 275 #1, the ADI, heading information is not displayed on the HSI; only track is displayed/bugged. I read heading/bug heading on the top GI275 (ADI) but can roll the bug with the heading/track knob on the autopilot. I was dissatisfied at first but I now like it. The pair of 275’s with the GFC500 is a great improvement for this pre-glass bird. I shed at least 28lbs by pulling the old HSI/ADF/AI/VSI/magnetometer/lighter servos and 8lbs of old deadhead wiring that prior avionics techs so nicely left behind after previous upgrades. I considered G5’s after using them in training 172’s but glad I went with the other option.

Edit for clarification- the GI275 does provide a wireless gateway for DB updates and Bluetooth for ADSB information to a PED, it just doesn’t push updates to GTN’s. It will push to other Garmin navigators though possibly will be able to in the future with software updates.
 
WDD said:
I do wonder what their pricing strategy is. For the cost of this bundle you can get a G3 7 inch panel.
Click to expand...
You still need a G5 as backup. But some folks don’t want to do the big panel upgrade with cutting the new hole. So two G5s works well
 
Initial Fix said:
You still need a G5 as backup. But some folks don’t want to do the big panel upgrade with cutting the new hole. So two G5s works well
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Couldn't you use a 275 as a backup. Maybe garmin needs a g3 275 bundle. Buy a g3 get a 275 as backup for free.
 
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