New CFI, what a difference

J

Joe Williamson

Pre-Flight
Joined
Dec 17, 2021
Messages
48
Display Name
Display name:
Joe
So I have been training with some younger CFI’s and it has been going well. My favorite CFI just got hired at an airline so I reached out to one who does it part time. Well this guys is an old schoolCfI and He is going to take my training to the next level. His approach is totally different. He said he is going to teach me to be a pilot in command and that a lot of CFI’s just teach you how to fly the plane and pass your check ride. I am so excited about this approach. I really thing he is going to teach me to be a hell of a pilot. I feel like with his training I will be better prepared for almost every situation.
 
is this "old school" CFI an older experienced pilot?

Back when I was flying a lot...and also moving around to different cities so getting lots of rental checkouts with different folks...
I really grew to hunger an experienced instructor with real world real weather flying experience. Something more than just fair weather fixed syllabus kind of flying.... seems it can be hard to find. Is that what your new instructor seems to be?
 
Brad W said:
is this "old school" CFI an older experienced pilot?

Back when I was flying a lot...and also moving around to different cities so getting lots of rental checkouts with different folks...
I really grew to hunger an experienced instructor with real world real weather flying experience. Something more than just fair weather fixed syllabus kind of flying.... seems it can be hard to find. Is that what your new instructor seems to be?
Click to expand...

yes he is currently a corporate pilot who flies jets for work. That’s why he only does it part time and only takes on a couple of students at a time.
 
Tools might be right that some of bother is good.....
but sounds like you might have hit the Jackpot!
The big hole that I have always felt lacking in training is the decision making.
 
Brad W said:
Tools might be right that some of bother is good.....
but sounds like you might have hit the Jackpot!
The big hole that I have always felt lacking in training is the decision making.
Click to expand...

i think I did as well. He is known by other pilots as the aviation encyclopedia.
 
Joe Williamson said:
So I have been training with some younger CFI’s and it has been going well. My favorite CFI just got hired at an airline so I reached out to one who does it part time. Well this guys is an old schoolCfI and He is going to take my training to the next level. His approach is totally different. He said he is going to teach me to be a pilot in command and that a lot of CFI’s just teach you how to fly the plane and pass your check ride. I am so excited about this approach. I really thing he is going to teach me to be a hell of a pilot. I feel like with his training I will be better prepared for almost every situation.
Click to expand...

24 years ago when I was training for my commercial and CFI checkrides, I had a part 135 old timer who coached me. I only flew with him a handful of times because he was too busy, but I still remember all the tidbits of things he taught me. They are not written down in any books or training videos.
 
Last edited:
I've had three early 20's CFI's, two mid 30's, and two "old guys/gals" (over 50, and not going to the airlines).

Looking back and knowing better now, two of the younger airline bound CFI's were, well, bad. Some of what they taught was actually wrong.

The "mid 30's" (also airline bound) were OK. The real teachers were the "old" (over 50) CFI's who were doing it because they like to, not headed to the airlines. They knew their stuff.

EDIT: I had one other "old guy" for two sessions, and he did fit the stereotypical "get off my yard" CFI. Teaching by admonishment isn't a real thing.
 
Experienced professional pilots knowledge will save your life one day! Nothing wrong with mixing it up, but you cannot compare a fresh CFI vs someone with 30+ years flying experience. You might think they are old or have outdated knowledge but they are more exposed to real world scenarios and teach you what to avoid and what to think while in flight.
 
Had an awesome flight yesterday evening with my new CFI. Did my first grass field landing which was super cool. Practiced power on and power off stalls. One of the biggest differences I noticed from other CFI’s that I have had in the past is that he really lets me fly the plane hard. Hard steep turns, hard dives etc. not sure if I am explaining it right but other CFI’s baby the plane.
 
THAT is exactly the sort of thing I was trying to get at. I was thinking more about weather and decisions....but it's really more about defining and practicing more realistic limits. I think there's something about the idea that it's hard to really explain where a limit is....and when it comes to safety lessons and safety items it's natural say things like don't do this, don't fly near that.
Stalls are dangerous....becomes practicing and teaching stalls only till the first hint of a buzz from the horn....never into a full stall.
Spins are dangerous...becomes talk about them but never practice one...or if you do only let it get into the incipient stages and call it a spin.

Seems like it just propagates so that even CFI's often don't really seem to know (or at least they don't teach) where the real world practical limits are. The err to the side of conservative caution.

I think for me I realized this while trying to get instrument recurrent from CFII's that don't have a lot of real world non-training environment IMC experience themselves...but it really rolls into even the primary levels of flight too.
 
Joe Williamson said:
Had an awesome flight yesterday evening with my new CFI. Did my first grass field landing which was super cool. Practiced power on and power off stalls. One of the biggest differences I noticed from other CFI’s that I have had in the past is that he really lets me fly the plane hard. Hard steep turns, hard dives etc. not sure if I am explaining it right but other CFI’s baby the plane.
Click to expand...
I own pairs of socks that have by far more hours instructing than you've ever experienced, and, I can assure you...not once did I ever tell a student I wanted them to do "hard steep turns", or "hard dives", what the hell does that even mean? We're flying 50+ year old airplanes, lets not do anything "hard". Not once have I ever instructed a student to do a "dive"....

Brad W said:
Seems like it just propagates so that even CFI's often don't really seem to know (or at least they don't teach) where the real world practical limits are. The err to the side of conservative caution.
Click to expand...
We don't spend a lot of time "at the real world practical limits" while teaching students. If the student thinks that, I assure you, it's a perception caused by them not knowing what the limits actually are. Of course, early on, students dance at the edges of their limitations...but once again...its nowhere near the limit of what the airplane can do.

Flying at the limits is done by crop dusters and crazy airshow pilots. There is no way in hell a student, nor a fresh private pilot is capable. As instructors, if we taught our students to operate within those dangerous envelopes, there'd be a lot more dead students.
 
I would say what the OP describes as “hard” turns you would barely notice. As a student pilot I remember when the CFI showed me turns at the commercial standards. I thought the wings would fall off.

I know what the OP is saying. I had a CFI that mentioned often that student pilots would try and kill you, and always took over so soon, did so much in the cockpit that I struggled to really learn.

Only with a CFI that let me “fly” the plane did I start to really put it all together.
 
Last edited:
WDD said:
I would say what the OP describes as “hard” turns you would barely notice. As a student pilot I remember when the CFI showed me turns at the commercial standards. I thought the wings would fall off.

I know what the OP is saying. I had a CFI that mentioned often that student pilots would try and kill you, and always took over so soon, did so much in the cockpit that I struggled to really learn.

Only with a CFI that let me “fly” the plane did I start to really put it all together.
Click to expand...

yes to me they were hard turns but to my CFI they were perfectly safe and within the limits. I only have 12.4 hours so they were way more extreme than what the young CFI’s have been doing with me.
 
I have picked up students that were with other CFIs previously. I have had where a couple of students were taught never to over 15 degrees unless practicing steep turns.

I will let students get over to 60 degrees, do some yank and bank to get a real feel of the plane. If the students stay in a comfort/safe zone, they will never know their own limits of comfort.
 
You have to love the way the FAA has it set up. All the new students are required to learn from CFIs that don't want to be teaching them.
 
E.W. said:
You have to love the way the FAA has it set up. All the new students are required to learn from CFIs that don't want to be teaching them.
Click to expand...

No they aren't.
 
TommyG said:
I have picked up students that were with other CFIs previously. I have had where a couple of students were taught never to over 15 degrees unless practicing steep turns.
I will let students get over to 60 degrees, do some yank and bank to get a real feel of the plane. If the students stay in a comfort/safe zone, they will never know their own limits of comfort.
Click to expand...
and then some of those students will grow up to be CFI's that teach their students to never bank over 15 degrees. (and have similar wind and weather limitations, will never show their students what acceptable cloud clearances really look like, etc...)

E.W. said:
You have to love the way the FAA has it set up. All the new students are required to learn from CFIs that don't want to be teaching them.
Click to expand...
Great point! ("required" might be a bit too harsh, but yeah...I get your point for sure!)
 
I made a huge mistake years ago to not find an instructor I gelled with for my ifr. Hindsight being 20/20 I found a perfect fit for my commercial multi and the difference was night and day.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WDD
Guess I have always been lucky on the CFI front. Always gelled with all of them and almost all of them were airline bound and I thought they were great. Part of the problem could be that students never ask the CFI "hey could we go up and do this or that?". I asked my CFI if we could do spins, 60 degree steep turns, rolls, etc. Had I not asked idk if it would have happened. A student needs to stand up a bit for themselves at times to push their limits responsibly and learn; aka be a PIC.
 
Often though a student doesn’t know what to ask for. Doesn’t know things are missing.
 
True, not disagreeing with you, but any PPL applicant should at some point wonder things like, "hmmm, can I get out of a spin if I ended up in one?" or "hmmm, why do so many people die from XYZ, maybe I should learn how to not end up there" etc.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top