New CFI (Me) and my Son

[Allan Cobb]

After a 38-year flying career (22 USAF and 16 airline), I retired and took what turned out to be a nearly 3-year break from aviation. I began with a PPL prior to the USAF and remained active in General Aviation pretty much throughout my career, mostly renting at whatever airport happened to be in the vicinity. But this past April I successfully obtained a CFII SEL/MEL certificate through the Sheppard Air MCI program. I then got rental checkouts in both a C-172 and a C-150 at a flying school at GAI. Concurrently, my 14-year-old son (who will be 15 in November) is rapidly developing an interest in pursuing at least a PPL for himself (anything after is TBD).

My question is how best to leverage my newly-obtained CFI "powers" for my son, with the knowledge that:

• I'm fully aware my Sheppard Air-acquired CFI certificate doesn't mean I would magically be a competent instructor for a new student given that my instructor experience was directed towards students in the B-52 and the U-2 all of whom were already pilots to begin with,
• My son's age... he can't take a written test until he's 15 and can't solo until 16,
• The school rental agreement only allows me to be in the left seat and I technically am not supposed to provide "instruction."

Since my checkouts in early May, I've logged nearly 10 hours of time in the Cessnas, and plan to fly at least once every 2 or 3 (max) weeks. Three of those flights have been with my son, and yes, I have been having him fly basic maneuvers, pattern introduction, preflight, taxi, and radio procedures (he seems to be catching on pretty quickly). In the meantime, I've been hitting the books (PHAK, "Stick and Rudder," numerous videos, etc.) to improve my own skills and knowledge, particularly how they pertain to instruction.

I'm considering enrolling him in an online ground school program (i.e., Sporty's, King, The Pilot Institute, etc.), so at least he'll have a formal ground school and could take the written test as soon as he's eligible; I'll sit in with him while he does it, not only as a great refresher for me, but so I can impart to him any additional knowledge as the course progresses. Considering this situation, any course recommendations?

So... is there anything I'm missing, or not doing that I should be doing now? Any strategy ideas for the future?

On a side note, I've also considered joining one of the local flying clubs, however after running though the monthly costs and additional commitments, so far renting from the school is the most economical. And yes, I've pitched purchasing an airplane and so far, the CFO's response is a flat "Negative." (for now)

Thanks in advance,

Allan

 

[rhkennerly]

• The school rental agreement only allows me to be in the left seat and I technically am not supposed to provide "instruction."

technically? As in if there is an accident then insurance will technically not pay & the rental company will come after the family nut before there is even a funeral? That kind of technically?

just curious, because what you are proposing would have been a nightmare if I were the kid. How does he really feel about this plan for you to sit sidesaddle with him as you work your way thru a Sporty’s online class?

 

[Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe]

I technically am not supposed to provide "instruction."

That would be an issue.

OTOH, logging time now (as dual received) when the two of you go flying will give him more hours in the book should he ever decide to go beyond a private certificate.

 

[Gilbert Buettner]

Personally, I think it is unwise to train anyone in your immediate family. It's very hard to be objective.

 

[Brad W]

Personally, I think it is unwise to train anyone in your immediate family. It's very hard to be objective.

I assume you mean it's hard for dad in this case to be objective..... which is very true!
I think often it's even more hard for the kid to be open minded and willing to take what's being offered.... There seems to me a switch that trips somewhere around that 15-16 year old mark, that basically shuts down any willingness to listen when any sound at all comes out of a parent's mouth. A lot of it I recon comes from the parent's unwillingness to not be a parent....

......................
My question is how best to leverage my newly-obtained CFI "powers" for my son, with the knowledge that:............

My thought, just looking from the cruise altitude of your U-2.... I want to say the best way to leverage it is to let him fly form the right seat and log it just to build time in his log and knowledge, on his track to fly with a different instructor eventually.....but that flies in the face of your rental agreement. SO, I'm not really sure how to answer the question.
Basically the more he takes an active passenger role when flying with dad, whos acting as pilot and not as CFI, the more the skids are greased for when he formally starts training....

ooo...I was just wrapping it up and had a thought!
In your calculations presented to your CFO, did you include the costs associated with the price you'll pay to send your son to flight school? That $10,000 or whatever it is might tip the scales!!

 

[texasclouds]

He probably will do better with a non-family member teaching. There are plenty of exceptions though.

Make sure the kid wants it himself. Earning a PPL is a big challenge and he is going to need to want it himself.

 

[Tools]

I was in a VERY similar situation but without GA experience. And we bought a Pietenpol in which to train the young lad. WORKED OUT GREAT!! Go for it. Do remember to see things from HIS (a student, not your son) point of view, it’ll be an awesome experience.

Just spend ALL THE TIME YOU CAN in a plane together. Log it.

Owning a plane isn’t all that bad… really look carefully. Little chiefs, luscombs, etc can be a lot more reasonable than you think.

 

[T Bird]

Personally, I think it is unwise to train anyone in your immediate family. It's very hard to be objective.

I'm working towards my CFI and I've had a few brothers and my dad express interest in getting trained by me at some point down the road. I've been somewhat open to it but hesitant for that reason too, and I wouldn't do it until having some actual experience instructing and having other students pass checkrides. Any thoughts on doing it but having other instructors for stage checks/supplementing the training? I'm thinking of just telling them to go find an instructor and plane to rent as that's simplest but in theory they can save a lot of money having me do it for free (instruction wise) and basically the cost of gas on a plane I own vs renting. Then there's also the matter of me not wanting fresh students, family or not, to beat up my plane. As I type this out, I lean more towards your opinion, but still not sure how I'll handle it if it does become a real decision vs theoretical...

 

[Dudley Henriques]

From a professional standpoint it's simply not "optimized instruction"......not so much from your position on the issue but rather from your relatives standpoint.
On the face of it it might not seem all that much of a problem but drilling down into the marbles there are many factors due to the close relationship that can interfere with your dual sessions.
I can tell you conversely you will most likely come up with no end of offered "examples" that might differ with this opinion so it has to be obvious that you will be faced with your own decision on the matter based on how YOU feel you can deal with it.
My opinion is based on years of experience working with students AND flight instructors on the optimizing of teaching pedagogy. This matter has come up numerous times. It's just not a good idea. What can happen in this scenario is that the everyday factors that make up your close relationship with a family member can interfere with your lesson plan and a dual session can denigrate on down into what amounts to a much more informal and personal situation where a lower result from an hour of dual becomes the norm.
Mind you.........I'm speaking here in the general sense. There have been many instances where the CFI vs family situation can and has worked properly and with good result.
The bottom line is that personally I would avoid it. You may be in a position where avoidance could be more of a problem than doing it.
My aim here is simply to provide you with my professional opinion. As the instructor involved it will be up to you to make a decision. It's good you are gathering facts.
I wish you the best and good luck with your final choice of path on this issue.
Dudley Henriques

 

[TCABM]

Your son should explore gliders. Without knowing how other things go when it comes to teaching skills to your son, I won’t comment.

If you were a .mil IP, that experience may not transition well to a student who’s not cognitively developed at the same level your previous students were.

 

[Allan Cobb]

Thanks to everyone for your responses all good points to consider.

I believe I can answer some of these concerns.

technically? As in if there is an accident then insurance will technically not pay & the rental company will come after the family nut before there is even a funeral? ... How does he really feel about this plan for you to sit sidesaddle with him as you work your way thru a Sporty’s online class?

I should clarify that I never intended to be in the right seat without prior verbal and written approval from the flight school and with the associated insurance requirements being fulfilled. Other than that, he also has not been in control during any critical phase of flight. To be realistic, who in the course of flying passengers/friends/family members while they occupy the right seat has not let them have some limited access to the controls when deemed safe to do so? My son is no stranger to airplanes and flying, since he has been in and around them since infanthood. He "lives" aviation; he planned and executed real-time flights in Infinite Flight since he was nine, had the FO flows for the 737NG up to before takeoff memorized, and was recently accepted into his high school's competitive STEM program that focuses on aeronautics (of which only 25% of applicants get awarded) for the fall, so his goals and motivations are very clear. He responds well in the airplane and has a good sense of "Dad" vs. "Instructor" in the airplane. And his mom (my wife) is a flight attendant!

The idea for me to sit in, at least for some portions of the ground school was actually his idea, to which I enthusiastically agreed for the reasons in my first post. I probably won't be there 100% of the time, but just for portions that I feel would be beneficial for both of us.

And only my wife has the privilege of labeling me as "the family nut."

I assume you mean it's hard for dad in this case to be objective..... which is very true!
I think often it's even more hard for the kid to be open minded and willing to take what's being offered.... There seems to me a switch that trips somewhere around that 15-16 year old mark, that basically shuts down any willingness to listen when any sound at all comes out of a parent's mouth. A lot of it I recon comes from the parent's unwillingness to not be a parent....



My thought, just looking from the cruise altitude of your U-2.... I want to say the best way to leverage it is to let him fly form the right seat and log it just to build time in his log and knowledge, on his track to fly with a different instructor eventually.....but that flies in the face of your rental agreement. SO, I'm not really sure how to answer the question.
Basically the more he takes an active passenger role when flying with dad, whos acting as pilot and not as CFI, the more the skids are greased for when he formally starts training....

ooo...I was just wrapping it up and had a thought!
In your calculations presented to your CFO, did you include the costs associated with the price you'll pay to send your son to flight school? That $10,000 or whatever it is might tip the scales!!

Thanks! After having said all of the above, I too, am now leaning toward a non-family member CFI for his actual PPL when the time comes. But my motivation is as you say, that any time spent flying together will ultimately be beneficial for when he starts training for real.

As for purchasing, I'll put that in my ammo kit... I can use all that I can get!

He probably will do better with a non-family member teaching. There are plenty of exceptions though.

Make sure the kid wants it himself. Earning a PPL is a big challenge and he is going to need to want it himself.

No problem with his motivation (see above) but yes, I tend to agree now with the idea of a non-family member.

I was in a VERY similar situation but without GA experience. And we bought a Pietenpol in which to train the young lad. WORKED OUT GREAT!! Go for it. Do remember to see things from HIS (a student, not your son) point of view, it’ll be an awesome experience.

Just spend ALL THE TIME YOU CAN in a plane together. Log it.

Owning a plane isn’t all that bad… really look carefully. Little chiefs, luscombs, etc can be a lot more reasonable than you think.

Excellent points! We'll definitely be logging the time. It's not so much we're against a purchase itself, it's the maintenance and especially storage in my area that's particularly challenging as far as availability and cost, especially hangar space.

Your son should explore gliders. Without knowing how other things go when it comes to teaching skills to your son, I won’t comment.

If you were a .mil IP, that experience may not transition well to a student who’s not cognitively developed at the same level your previous students were.

So far, he's been very receptive (no exaggeration) to any pointers aimed his way. To be honest, with the proper training/guidance, I feel that I would be a pretty decent CFI, and I may pursue that goal properly to ultimately become associated with a flight school. But right now, I don't know what I don't know, so the current level seems to be working well. I do plan a discussion with the flight school chief CFI soon to explore options on that. As for gliders (I have a whopping 2 hours in them myself from eons ago), I've considered that, but the nearest place as far as I know is half a day's drive from here. But definitely worth considering! Either way, when the time comes, I'll find a "real" CFI for him.

Thanks again everyone.

Cheers, Allan

 

[Allan Cobb]

From a professional standpoint it's simply not "optimized instruction"......not so much from your position on the issue but rather from your relatives standpoint.
On the face of it it might not seem all that much of a problem but drilling down into the marbles there are many factors due to the close relationship that can interfere with your dual sessions.
... What can happen in this scenario is that the everyday factors that make up your close relationship with a family member can interfere with your lesson plan and a dual session can denigrate on down into what amounts to a much more informal and personal situation where a lower result from an hour of dual becomes the norm.

Well stated, thanks for revealing what has probably been the biggest doubt in the back of my mind about this, specifically that for whatever reason the dual instruction I provide would be inefficient, where the per-hour result would be less than it normally otherwise would or should be.

These are the questions I had and I definitely wanted to pulse the community and make sure I've considered everything before going any further.

 

[Randomskylane]

I’d guess all you guys taught your kids to drive

this is obviously different and more difficult, so train him up to where you think he could (at least) solo, then hand him over to the local cfi.

you’ve got 18 (whatever) months before he’s eligible so there’s plenty of time

he’s really young; i’d be testing him in non aviation “emergencies” to get a comfort level for when he does go alone

signed,
None of my four were remotely ready to be a pilot in their teens

good luck

 

[Gilbert Buettner]

I’d guess all you guys taught your kids to drive

Ha! My dad was a professional truck driver. When it came time for him to teach me, we got into the 1952 Plymouth and he said, "Let's go."

I said, "Aren't you going to teach me how to shift and use the clutch?"

"What?! You're sixteen and you don't know how to drive?!"

I ended up taking driving lessons at the local vocational school, and I still remember a lot of those lessons. When it came time for my three children to learn to drive, I was happy that they had formal training at school.

None of my kids wanted to learn how to fly, but if they had, I would have happily found a good instructor who I respected, to teach them.

 

[Pinecone]

Personally, I think it is unwise to train anyone in your immediate family. It's very hard to be objective.

That was my first thought. Especially for a person new to instructing. It is VERY hard to turn off the "Dad" to be the "Instructor."

I did teach my ex-wife at track days. But over the years, I learned to put on my instructor persona and submerge the personal connection. She even commented that I "became an instructor, not a husband."

Also, in general, FBOs will not allow you to instruct in their airplanes. They have instructors for that. So if you want to ignore the above advice, you would need to make other arrangements, such as purchasing a plane.

Another option for you son is Civil Air Patrol. It gives him aerospace training. He is eligible for 5 power and 5 glider orientation flights as a cadet. He can apply for, and be accepted to National Flight Academy, where in a week to 10 days they do PP ground school and flight training to solo. And there are scholarships for completing his PP.

There is a squadron at GAI and one in the Bethesda area. If you go this route, I suggest attending a couple of meetings at each and see if one "fits" better.

For context, I started as a CAP cadet. Did GA< then MD AND as a pilot, then GA, in and out of flying. I currently am a member of CAP and fly cadet orientation flights and other missions.

BTW, you can join too. Free flying.

 

[Pinecone]

Your son should explore gliders. Without knowing how other things go when it comes to teaching skills to your son, I won’t comment.

If you were a .mil IP, that experience may not transition well to a student who’s not cognitively developed at the same level your previous students were.

Gliders are a great way to start. And he can solo at 14.

 

[Brad W]

I’d guess all you guys taught your kids to drive.....

That was in part some of my parenting experience that led to my earlier post!!
My oldest is 17, nearly 18 now, so his learner's permit wasn't all that long ago + one of my daughters is currently 15 with her learners permit....so fresh experience.
This "not listening to mom and dad" switch was much more noticeable with my son, but is there with daughter too.... Often it's not so much about not listening, as it is maybe doubt ..... at that age they are starting to get the sense that dad doesn't know everything.
I haven't really had the thought with her yet, but I sure did think about an outside instructor...even offered a few hours as a brush-up at the end when he was basically getting ready for his "check-ride"

 

[Allan Cobb]

That was my first thought. Especially for a person new to instructing. It is VERY hard to turn off the "Dad" to be the "Instructor."

...

Another option for you son is Civil Air Patrol. It gives him aerospace training. He is eligible for 5 power and 5 glider orientation flights as a cadet. He can apply for, and be accepted to National Flight Academy, where in a week to 10 days they do PP ground school and flight training to solo. And there are scholarships for completing his PP.

There is a squadron at GAI and one in the Bethesda area. If you go this route, I suggest attending a couple of meetings at each and see if one "fits" better.

For context, I started as a CAP cadet. Did GA< then MD AND as a pilot, then GA, in and out of flying. I currently am a member of CAP and fly cadet orientation flights and other missions.

BTW, you can join too. Free flying.

This sounds like a definite possibility worth looking into. I've always been vaguely familiar with the CAP mission and I always see the CAP airplane at GAI (it's parked next to the rental airplanes I fly). I didn't realize the scope of the flying opportunities to cadets.

Gliders are a great way to start. And he can solo at 14.

A great idea and I had considered this, but the closest airports offering glider activity are in Fairfield PA or Front Royal VA, both at least 1.5 hours driving time. I suppose lessons could be grouped together in a single day, but I need to explore the practicality further.

 

[BaltCoFlyer]

I'd absolutely recommend that you (and your son) check out the International Aerospace Camp at the University of North Dakota. It's open to rising juniors and seniors, so I think it's a way off (sounds like he's entering freshman year), but absolutely worth it regardless. I went last year and absolutely would've gone back this year. It's a great way to explore a bunch of different facets of aviation.

Everyone got 3 flights in UND Archers (campers are paired and switch seats at an outlying airport halfway through the flight-- the first flight was day VFR, my partner and I were both new to flying so our instructor basically did a discovery flight but more advanced campers did more interesting things, second flight was mostly foggle time including unusual attitudes and an approach and the third was an evening XC) and there's an option to do an R44 flight, which I highly recommend. We got to spend some time in UND's radar and tower sim labs (super fun!), did a session in the aerospace physiology trainers and sims where we checked out the altitude chamber (didn't depressurize or anything), looked at some various night vision devices and illusions and some of us got to go through the spatial disorientation trainer or cockpit smoke trainer (not everyone was able to do that because of time constraints) and toured airport ops and the ARFF station as well as the GFK tower. We also went out to Grand Forks AFB and toured the General Atomics and Northrop Grumman facilities there and were scheduled to tour the CBP facility and RAPCON on base-- didn't make it to that because of a lockdown, but I believe the other camp session did make it to those tours. They brought in a Delta captain/LCA to talk about the airline industry, one of the air traffic management professors talked to us, and all the counselors are current UND aviation students and instructors are UND CFIs, so there's plenty of time to talk to people about their experiences. Also got to check out the UAS program and their Predator sim.

Even if he's a good way into his PPL by the time camp rolls around I'd recommend it-- we had kids who were over 50 hours in who still had a good time. If I recall, registration opens in February-- if you have any other questions about what camp is like, feel free to get in touch!

 

[Pinecone]

This sounds like a definite possibility worth looking into. I've always been vaguely familiar with the CAP mission and I always see the CAP airplane at GAI (it's parked next to the rental airplanes I fly). I didn't realize the scope of the flying opportunities to cadets.

A great idea and I had considered this, but the closest airports offering glider activity are in Fairfield PA or Front Royal VA, both at least 1.5 hours driving time. I suppose lessons could be grouped together in a single day, but I need to explore the practicality further.

MD Wing uses the glider operation at Grant County airport in WV for glider flying. But look at it this way, it gives you an excuse to rent a plane and fly to the glider place. And both of you can fly gliders. I have talked to the operator about getting recurrent in gliders, plus get my ground tow endorsement and my CAP Form 5 (check ride). He thinks we can do it in a day.

MD Wing has about 10 aircraft. Mostly C-182s, with a few 172s. And one Gipps GA-8 Air Van. Avionics run from 6 pack with an Garmin 400 to G1000 aircraft.

 

[Allan Cobb]

I'd absolutely recommend that you (and your son) check out the International Aerospace Camp at the University of North Dakota. It's open to rising juniors and seniors, so I think it's a way off (sounds like he's entering freshman year), but absolutely worth it regardless. I went last year and absolutely would've gone back this year. It's a great way to explore a bunch of different facets of aviation.

Everyone got 3 flights in UND Archers (campers are paired and switch seats at an outlying airport halfway through the flight-- the first flight was day VFR, my partner and I were both new to flying so our instructor basically did a discovery flight but more advanced campers did more interesting things, second flight was mostly foggle time including unusual attitudes and an approach and the third was an evening XC) and there's an option to do an R44 flight, which I highly recommend. We got to spend some time in UND's radar and tower sim labs (super fun!), did a session in the aerospace physiology trainers and sims where we checked out the altitude chamber (didn't depressurize or anything), looked at some various night vision devices and illusions and some of us got to go through the spatial disorientation trainer or cockpit smoke trainer (not everyone was able to do that because of time constraints) and toured airport ops and the ARFF station as well as the GFK tower. We also went out to Grand Forks AFB and toured the General Atomics and Northrop Grumman facilities there and were scheduled to tour the CBP facility and RAPCON on base-- didn't make it to that because of a lockdown, but I believe the other camp session did make it to those tours. They brought in a Delta captain/LCA to talk about the airline industry, one of the air traffic management professors talked to us, and all the counselors are current UND aviation students and instructors are UND CFIs, so there's plenty of time to talk to people about their experiences. Also got to check out the UAS program and their Predator sim.

Even if he's a good way into his PPL by the time camp rolls around I'd recommend it-- we had kids who were over 50 hours in who still had a good time. If I recall, registration opens in February-- if you have any other questions about what camp is like, feel free to get in touch!

MD Wing uses the glider operation at Grant County airport in WV for glider flying. But look at it this way, it gives you an excuse to rent a plane and fly to the glider place. And both of you can fly gliders. I have talked to the operator about getting recurrent in gliders, plus get my ground tow endorsement and my CAP Form 5 (check ride). He thinks we can do it in a day.

MD Wing has about 10 aircraft. Mostly C-182s, with a few 172s. And one Gipps GA-8 Air Van. Avionics run from 6 pack with an Garmin 400 to G1000 aircraft.

Excellent suggestions, and I'll use whatever excuse works to get airborne. Many thanks!

 

[Pinecone]

If you want to talk on the phone or in person, send me a message. I get to Montgomery County fairly often to visit my Dad. And I get some service done at KGAI.

 

[Aye Effaar]

After a 38-year flying career (22 USAF and 16 airline), I retired and took what turned out to be a nearly 3-year break from aviation. I began with a PPL prior to the USAF and remained active in General Aviation pretty much throughout my career, mostly renting at whatever airport happened to be in the vicinity. But this past April I successfully obtained a CFII SEL/MEL certificate through the Sheppard Air MCI program. I then got rental checkouts in both a C-172 and a C-150 at a flying school at GAI. Concurrently, my 14-year-old son (who will be 15 in November) is rapidly developing an interest in pursuing at least a PPL for himself (anything after is TBD).

My question is how best to leverage my newly-obtained CFI "powers" for my son, with the knowledge that:

• I'm fully aware my Sheppard Air-acquired CFI certificate doesn't mean I would magically be a competent instructor for a new student given that my instructor experience was directed towards students in the B-52 and the U-2 all of whom were already pilots to begin with,
• My son's age... he can't take a written test until he's 15 and can't solo until 16,
• The school rental agreement only allows me to be in the left seat and I technically am not supposed to provide "instruction."

Since my checkouts in early May, I've logged nearly 10 hours of time in the Cessnas, and plan to fly at least once every 2 or 3 (max) weeks. Three of those flights have been with my son, and yes, I have been having him fly basic maneuvers, pattern introduction, preflight, taxi, and radio procedures (he seems to be catching on pretty quickly). In the meantime, I've been hitting the books (PHAK, "Stick and Rudder," numerous videos, etc.) to improve my own skills and knowledge, particularly how they pertain to instruction.

I'm considering enrolling him in an online ground school program (i.e., Sporty's, King, The Pilot Institute, etc.), so at least he'll have a formal ground school and could take the written test as soon as he's eligible; I'll sit in with him while he does it, not only as a great refresher for me, but so I can impart to him any additional knowledge as the course progresses. Considering this situation, any course recommendations?

So... is there anything I'm missing, or not doing that I should be doing now? Any strategy ideas for the future?

On a side note, I've also considered joining one of the local flying clubs, however after running though the monthly costs and additional commitments, so far renting from the school is the most economical. And yes, I've pitched purchasing an airplane and so far, the CFO's response is a flat "Negative." (for now)

Thanks in advance,

Allan

Hi Allan -- why not just approach the flight school. Offer to be an instructor for the school with the caveat you get to teach your son at the same time. Time with your son is not billable, and you get the plane at some sort of steep discount. Most schools are eager to have experienced pilots, even if the ink is still wet on the CFI.

Good Lukc

 

[LanceS]

I am a CFI and taught my teenage son to fly - I can't recommend it enough. I think it is perfectly safe as long as you have somebody who is unbiased checking in on him. I had an experienced 5000 hr CFI do regular interval flight checks to make sure he was progressing and not learning bad habits. This is crucial and I can't emphasize it enough. Will you completely eliminate the father-son dynamic while you're flying? Of course not. You can minimize it early by setting clear expectations and maintaining a professional environment while flying. And remember, flying is fun. This is a great opportunity to steal time with your teenage son. My teenager, who is like most others and prefers spending time with his friends and playing XBox, looked forward to our time together at the airport. We created memories that will last a lifetime. Now if my wife ever wanted to learn how to fly I would toss her to the nearest CFI like a hot potato.

 

[Arbiter419]

My old dad taught me to fly when I was in high school. Went out after that and ended up with a bunch of ratings and turned out pretty generally okay as a person and as a pilot. I'd never be where I am without him. Teach your son how to fly, you and he will treasure every moment.

 

[WDD]

A few thoughts

1) Yep, I taught my kids how to drive. Two of them even on a stick shift! I could see myself teaching a family member for a while how to fly. What Lance said makes perfect sense - hand them over to another instructor from time to time for an objective evaluation, another POV, etc.

2) BUT you're not ready to teach in a Cessna yet, even though you have the paperwork. I'd go up with other instructors and be a "simulated student" to see what they do. Then I'd get a few students under my belt before thinking about teaching a family member.

3) I would recommend Sporty's on line ground course. But it's on line, not a webinar. There is no "sitting in" on the lessons. So either of you can do and re do lessons and practice questions as needed.

 

[Allan Cobb]

@Pinecone, @Aye Effaar, @LanceS, @Arbiter419, @WDD, all fantastic comments and suggestions, very encouraging, helpful, and much appreciated! I have considered approaching the flight school, and as WDD says, I know I need some guidance on instructing in the Cessna, and your suggestion makes perfect sense. Why not, the worst that can happen is they say no and I’ll do what I can within the current constraints. I’ve had 4 flights with my son so far and I think he could do great.

 

[luvflyin]

Pinecone, JC, Lance, Arbiter, WDD, all fantastic comments and suggestions, very encouraging, helpful, and much appreciated! I have considered approaching the flight school, and as WDD says, I know need some guidance on instructing in the Cessna, and your suggestion makes perfect sense. Why not, the worst that can happen is they say no and I’ll do what I can within the current constraints. I’ve had 4 flights with my son so far and I think he could do great.

They may not be following the the thread anymore. Here’s how to get their attention. @Pinecone . Some of the others you didn’t use the full name, like Lance instead of @LanceS

 

[Allan Cobb]

@luvflyin, edited and thanks.

 

[NorthEast Ohio]

I taught both my kids to fly. I highly recommend it. BUT, at first it was challenging. With me in a new position and the kids trying to kill me with every trip around the pattern, the first few hours were NOT fun.
Today, they both have their certs and we are working on instruments and I am having a ball!
YMMV

 

[k9medic]

Personally, I think it is unwise to train anyone in your immediate family. It's very hard to be objective.

I am teaching my 18 year old how to fly. I told him that instructor dad is a lot different than "Dad." My job as an IP is to protect myself, the aircraft and the student. In that order. I did share with him though that we would sacrifice the aircraft first so my wife/his mom would not kill me...


Here is my suggestion to the OP - just take the kid flying. Enjoy the time with him. Let him pick up on things and don't have him stress on learning. That can come in a year or so. If you want to log his dual, then by all means do so, but his BEST memories will be of just the two of you flying and enjoying time.

My oldest son's first flight in a helicopter (BK117) was when he was 3. He still talks about it.

 

[JEB]

My dad taught me to fly. At times, it wasn't easy, but it's something that we both share now and I feel incredibly lucky that I was able to do it with my dad.

In my case, I was 39 yrs old when I started training with my dad. My dad had been an instructor since I was about 9 or 10 years old. This meant that I had developed enough maturity to be able to tell my dad when he needed to approach a topic in a different way because I was having trouble grasping it the way he normally would teach it. it also meant that my dad was pretty set in his ways! Some days were ... "challenging". You and your son will both need to be flexible and confident enough to speak up when things get difficult. With your son's age, you'll need to be even more agile in your approach.

A real concern that my dad had when I wanted to learn at the age of 16 was; how will I manage to stay proficient after I get my certificate? I've often said that 3 landings in 90 days is not enough to be a safe pilot, especially if the pilot is planning to carry passengers. When I was young, my dad instructed as a way to pay for his flying. He didn't have the money to pay for me to rent a plane a couple times a month and my job at McDonalds certainly wasn't going to cover that either. Back then, I was angry that my dad wouldn't teach me, but I understand why now. If you're in the fortunate position of being able to ensure that he gets lots of time to be current and I'd really encourage an IFR ticket as an immediate follow on to his Private - then I say go for it! It will be something you both share forever.

 

[Allan Cobb]

I taught both my kids to fly. I highly recommend it. BUT, at first it was challenging. With me in a new position and the kids trying to kill me with every trip around the pattern, the first few hours were NOT fun.
Today, they both have their certs and we are working on instruments and I am having a ball!
YMMV

Very encouraging! I have had him fly around the pattern (usually with verbal prompts) and I take over on the base leg and he's doing pretty well, even making the radio calls. There's no rush, just taking it slow and having fun when we can.

I am teaching my 18 year old how to fly. I told him that instructor dad is a lot different than "Dad." My job as an IP is to protect myself, the aircraft and the student. In that order. I did share with him though that we would sacrifice the aircraft first so my wife/his mom would not kill me...


Here is my suggestion to the OP - just take the kid flying. Enjoy the time with him. Let him pick up on things and don't have him stress on learning. That can come in a year or so. If you want to log his dual, then by all means do so, but his BEST memories will be of just the two of you flying and enjoying time.

My oldest son's first flight in a helicopter (BK117) was when he was 3. He still talks about it.

Exactly! And for now that is the game plan, he's just taking it all in without me forcing anything; after we fly, his next question (after what's for lunch ) is when are we going up again.

My dad taught me to fly. At times, it wasn't easy, but it's something that we both share now and I feel incredibly lucky that I was able to do it with my dad.

In my case, I was 39 yrs old when I started training with my dad. My dad had been an instructor since I was about 9 or 10 years old. This meant that I had developed enough maturity to be able to tell my dad when he needed to approach a topic in a different way because I was having trouble grasping it the way he normally would teach it. it also meant that my dad was pretty set in his ways! Some days were ... "challenging". You and your son will both need to be flexible and confident enough to speak up when things get difficult. With your son's age, you'll need to be even more agile in your approach.

A real concern that my dad had when I wanted to learn at the age of 16 was; how will I manage to stay proficient after I get my certificate? I've often said that 3 landings in 90 days is not enough to be a safe pilot, especially if the pilot is planning to carry passengers. When I was young, my dad instructed as a way to pay for his flying. He didn't have the money to pay for me to rent a plane a couple times a month and my job at McDonalds certainly wasn't going to cover that either. Back then, I was angry that my dad wouldn't teach me, but I understand why now. If you're in the fortunate position of being able to ensure that he gets lots of time to be current and I'd really encourage an IFR ticket as an immediate follow on to his Private - then I say go for it! It will be something you both share forever.

@JEB , excellent comments and points to consider, thanks. We're flying together when we can, he's taking it in at his own pace, and enjoying every minute. When he's old enough to officially pursue the cert and he decides he still wants to do it, we'll make sure those needs and goals are properly thought through.

Cheers, Allan

 

[SoarPaso]

Hi Alla

After a 38-year flying career (22 USAF and 16 airline), I retired and took what turned out to be a nearly 3-year break from aviation. I began with a PPL prior to the USAF and remained active in General Aviation pretty much throughout my career, mostly renting at whatever airport happened to be in the vicinity. But this past April I successfully obtained a CFII SEL/MEL certificate through the Sheppard Air MCI program. I then got rental checkouts in both a C-172 and a C-150 at a flying school at GAI. Concurrently, my 14-year-old son (who will be 15 in November) is rapidly developing an interest in pursuing at least a PPL for himself (anything after is TBD).

My question is how best to leverage my newly-obtained CFI "powers" for my son, with the knowledge that:

• I'm fully aware my Sheppard Air-acquired CFI certificate doesn't mean I would magically be a competent instructor for a new student given that my instructor experience was directed towards students in the B-52 and the U-2 all of whom were already pilots to begin with,
• My son's age... he can't take a written test until he's 15 and can't solo until 16,
• The school rental agreement only allows me to be in the left seat and I technically am not supposed to provide "instruction."

Since my checkouts in early May, I've logged nearly 10 hours of time in the Cessnas, and plan to fly at least once every 2 or 3 (max) weeks. Three of those flights have been with my son, and yes, I have been having him fly basic maneuvers, pattern introduction, preflight, taxi, and radio procedures (he seems to be catching on pretty quickly). In the meantime, I've been hitting the books (PHAK, "Stick and Rudder," numerous videos, etc.) to improve my own skills and knowledge, particularly how they pertain to instruction.

I'm considering enrolling him in an online ground school program (i.e., Sporty's, King, The Pilot Institute, etc.), so at least he'll have a formal ground school and could take the written test as soon as he's eligible; I'll sit in with him while he does it, not only as a great refresher for me, but so I can impart to him any additional knowledge as the course progresses. Considering this situation, any course recommendations?

So... is there anything I'm missing, or not doing that I should be doing now? Any strategy ideas for the future?

On a side note, I've also considered joining one of the local flying clubs, however after running though the monthly costs and additional commitments, so far renting from the school is the most economical. And yes, I've pitched purchasing an airplane and so far, the CFO's response is a flat "Negative." (for now)

Thanks in advance,

Very encouraging! I have had him fly around the pattern (usually with verbal prompts) and I take over on the base leg and he's doing pretty well, even making the radio calls. There's no rush, just taking it slow and having fun when we can.



Exactly! And for now that is the game plan, he's just taking it all in without me forcing anything; after we fly, his next question (after what's for lunch ) is when are we going up again.



@JEB , excellent comments and points to consider, thanks. We're flying together when we can, he's taking it in at his own pace, and enjoying every minute. When he's old enough to officially pursue the cert and he decides he still wants to do it, we'll make sure those needs and goals are properly thought through.

Cheers, Allan

Hi Allan - look into motorgliders for him! He can solo at 14 and be fully certificated at 16. Plus, all the time carries over to airplanes. Our Virus SW is a glider but can also be registered as an airplane!

 

[Allan Cobb]

@SoarPaso, much appreciated! It's a matter of finding availability, but I'm keeping that in mind.