New career - A&P

455 Bravo Uniform

455 Bravo Uniform

Final Approach
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455 Bravo Uniform
I have a lot of research to do. I am contemplating a major career change. Been doing what I'm doing (corporate ladder type job) for 25 yrs now. Time for a change.

Growing up, I wanted to be an auto mechanic. Dad pushed me to go to college (smart move). Now I am financially OK enough to earn less. Cars, building engines, and racing have been a hobby for 25 years.

I have my rose-colored glasses on, and I want you guys to tell me why becoming an A&P at age 50 is a bad idea. What do you hate about your job?

Also:
Can I work 40 hrs a week?
Can I earn $50k/yr?
Is there a huge demand, low supply?

I am in a smaller Midwest market...

Just starting my research. Fire away...
 
Not a AP, so take it with a grain of salt.

The AP IA I use is in his late 50s, has a OK sized hangar on a little airport, seems to always be busy and has a couple apprentices who help him, he's got his own house and some nice toys, horse trades some planes he occasionally finds sitting in hangars, fixes up and rents or sells, he seems happy
 
Hanging out your shingle takes an IA. Without the ability to do annual inspections, you will be severally limited. On top of that, there is a lot to learn that does not get covered in A&P school. You need to find a hangar to lease, pony up for insurance and subscriptions, and probably $15-$20K for tools and equipment.

The market is good in some places, and not so good in others. Are you geographically flexible? If not, then the market is what the market is where you is.
 
God luck we can always use Aother good A&P
 
They've been saying for 30 years or so, that an A&P hiring boom was coming. It may be, finally. I see more job posting right now than ever.
 
Kristin said:
The market is good in some places, and not so good in others. Are you geographically flexible? If not, then the market is what the market is where you is.
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From what I've seen, this is the important part. Like pilots, mechanics need to be flexible and willing to go where the work is. If they aren't flexible it could be good if they're lucky, or bad if they're not.

I don't make my living working as a mechanic, and I'm not sure I'd want to try around here. There's enough work to survive on, but you won't have any spare cash.
 
I finally got my A&P when I was 63. Been restoring and building airplanes for 35 years. I take on one or two projects a year and could make $100,000 a year if I wanted to work a 40 hour week. I charge time and materials and have another Super cub to do when I finish the one in the shop now. I have an IA that will sign off annuals and return to service. Don
 
yakdriver said:
I finally got my A&P when I was 63. Been restoring and building airplanes for 35 years. I take on one or two projects a year and could make $100,000 a year if I wanted to work a 40 hour week. I charge time and materials and have another Super cub to do when I finish the one in the shop now. I have an IA that will sign off annuals and return to service. Don
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I'd like to get my A&P. I was a helo crew chief for 16 years in the Navy, I did all the regular maintenance myself (airframe powerplant and avionics/electrical) after the Navy, I worked part-time on Cessnas as an independent contractor, under the supervision of an A&P IA. Later, I worked full time at a repair depot on Alaska and Southwest jets, as well as working on United and various other jets on occasion. Yet, the FSDO guy I talked to says that because I went to avionics "A" school instead of airframe or power plant school, I literally have no basis to get the waiver to sit for either test. So, I'd have to go back to college for 2 years.

I was so ****ed at that, I haven't even looked into it further. How'd you do it yakdriver?
 
wilkersk said:
after the Navy, I worked part-time on Cessnas as an independent contractor, under the supervision of an A&P IA. Later, I worked full time at a repair depot on Alaska and Southwest jets, as well as working on United and various other jets on occasion.
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Would you be able to put together a log of what you did during all those gigs and get it signed off by the respective A&Ps who supervised you ? Some folks have managed to sit for the A&P exam with the hours they have accumulated wrenching in a local shop and maintaining their own aircraft under supervision. There seems to be some local variability of what the FSDO will accept for the experience requirement.
 
I had work experience and I also built two homebuilt airplanes that counted toward the hours. For 35 years i did restoration and maintenance under the supervision of several IAs and they all wrote letters stating that. Also helped that a good friend is in the FISDO and he was one of the IAs I worked with. I did the three writtens and went over to ISU and did the practical and oral over a weekend. Start to finish was 6 weeks. I understand that the FAA has completely revamped the process now but hasn't issued the guidelines. A friend is waiting to do his practical and oral and the DE can't give him the test because the FAA hasn't issued test procedures. Typical Feds. Don
 
When you have military experience you have two of the three parts of the A&P completed, take your DD214 to FSDO show them what MOS you have. they will give you the General and either the A or the P, Then all you have to complete the other part.
$15 to $20K in tools ? Not really, the rule is " you must've the tools and instructions to complete the job" So how much of the Profession do you want to do? I know a young lady that does nothing but re-cover fabric aircraft, She's very good at it and she is always busy. Another only re-skins Cessna 100 & 200 aircraft wings. Neither have the whole A&P.
The bottom line, or the point I'm trying to make is, You needn't be a full service FBO to make a living reparing aircraft.
 
I will probably end up doing mostly Supercubs. I do a few condition inspections on homebuilts but I love rebuilding/building airplanes. I also enjoy fabric work and I'm very good at it. I could advertise that and probably be busy forever. I am not interested in doing day to day A&P stuff like oil changes, changing tires etc. Don
 
Tom-D said:
When you have military experience you have two of the three parts of the A&P completed, take your DD214 to FSDO show them what MOS you have. ...
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Not neccesarily true Tom. I went to the FSDO with friend who had the same experience, duty history, and same documentation. The only difference was that he went to Aviation Structural Mechanic (Hydralics) "A" school, and I went to Aviation Electronics "A" school. It didn't matter that I was just as qualified to rig flight controls and engines and make structural repairs as he was. The FSDO wouldn't even look at my work experience and letters of recommendation. In fact, he told me a story about how "messcooks and light bulb changers" were ruining the A&P trade. I've since been told that there is a specific agreement between the FAA and the military about which "A" schools graduates would be allowed to use military work experience to qualify for the testing waiver.
 
Time to go to another FISDO or contact your senator or house rep and get them on it. FISDOs are little fiefdoms and are not always right.
 
I got my A&P in 1970. I did not follow it as a career path, but worked part time over the years. When I retired from my career job, I used it for supplemental retirement income. I hear of some airplane mechanics who make the big bucks, but I've never actually met one. None of the mechanic jobs that I had paid a living wage. When I left it in 2010, the highest paid mechanic in our shop was making $15 bucks and hour.

If you go our on your own, you are going to need an IA. You are really limited to what you can do without one. A&P mechanics are expected to have most of their own hand tools. That is a huge expense starting out. If you decide to go it on your own, you will need a lot of specialized tools, and that is big bucks.Also if you go it alone, you are going to have to have some experience. It is not something you just go out and shade tree. The IA rating is not easy to get. It takes time, there are requirements to keeping it updated, and the FAA checks up on them pretty regularly. Finally, and this is what made me put up my wrenches, there is a huge liability issue. Especially if you are out there on your own. You will be working on forty and fifty year old airplanes, that are falling apart in some cases, and you will be signing your name, saying that they are airworthy. You can be as careful and as thorough you can possibly be, but those rivets and cables and all that tubing have been flexing and vibrating for a long long time.

A lot of owners go to hanger mechanics because they think they can get a deal. They just want to get one more year out of the fabric, or fifty more hours out of the engine. They beg and cry and stomp around. I know some hanger mechanics that will sell their signature, but that's not me. When I was on my own, I really felt like my neck was sticking out, and I was being thorough in everything I was doing. Which brings me to my final point. Being out there alone, without a shop and without other mechanics to help you is hard. Just jacking up a plane and cycling the landing gear is not a one man job. I found it very hard to do a good job, and charge enough to make it worth my time. That is my experience. I really sound like a downer, and I'm not. I mean, if that is what you want to do, go for it, but I think that you need to go into it with your eyes open, and I guess that is what I'm trying to show you
 
Thank you. These are the exact kind of comments that I am looking for.

I think I might be happy working as a grunt in a small GA shop...no billing, no customer interface, and little liability to worry about. I basically have to be ready to "retire" and not give a crap about pay.

The biggest variable to success will be having a bosses and coworkers who are good people...and some business stability.
 
Maxmosbey said:
I got my A&P in 1970. I did not follow it as a career path, but worked part time over the years. When I retired from my career job, I used it for supplemental retirement income. I hear of some airplane mechanics who make the big bucks, but I've never actually met one. None of the mechanic jobs that I had paid a living wage. When I left it in 2010, the highest paid mechanic in our shop was making $15 bucks and hour.

If you go our on your own, you are going to need an IA. You are really limited to what you can do without one. A&P mechanics are expected to have most of their own hand tools. That is a huge expense starting out. If you decide to go it on your own, you will need a lot of specialized tools, and that is big bucks.Also if you go it alone, you are going to have to have some experience. It is not something you just go out and shade tree. The IA rating is not easy to get. It takes time, there are requirements to keeping it updated, and the FAA checks up on them pretty regularly. Finally, and this is what made me put up my wrenches, there is a huge liability issue. Especially if you are out there on your own. You will be working on forty and fifty year old airplanes, that are falling apart in some cases, and you will be signing your name, saying that they are airworthy. You can be as careful and as thorough you can possibly be, but those rivets and cables and all that tubing have been flexing and vibrating for a long long time.

A lot of owners go to hanger mechanics because they think they can get a deal. They just want to get one more year out of the fabric, or fifty more hours out of the engine. They beg and cry and stomp around. I know some hanger mechanics that will sell their signature, but that's not me. When I was on my own, I really felt like my neck was sticking out, and I was being thorough in everything I was doing. Which brings me to my final point. Being out there alone, without a shop and without other mechanics to help you is hard. Just jacking up a plane and cycling the landing gear is not a one man job. I found it very hard to do a good job, and charge enough to make it worth my time. That is my experience. I really sound like a downer, and I'm not. I mean, if that is what you want to do, go for it, but I think that you need to go into it with your eyes open, and I guess that is what I'm trying to show you
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I'm making $3500-4000 a month part time rebuilding aircraft. I own my hangar and have all of the tools I need. Most of the airplanes are over 60 years old and all of my customers have wanted nothing but the best and are willing to pay for it. An A&P can perform all of the work on an airplane. I fill out all the 337s and fill out the log book. All the IA has to do is return it to service. I have three IAs I work with that will sign off on my work. And I will never just sell my signature. Don
 
There are about as many avenues for you to choose from as pay scales vary. Manage to get on with some airlines and you can easily make over 100k after about 6 years. Find a niche market and start your own repair station and make the big bucks. That is what my brother-in-law did, he's a co-owner/Chief Inspector of a Lear/Challenger repair station. I don't know what he makes but his wife told my wife he owes 90k on his income taxes this year.
 
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Norman said:
Maxmosbey tells it like it really is for a GA mechanic.
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For GA mechanics who work exclusively on little planes and deal with cheapskate owners.

Converting helicopters for EMS is working in 'GA', re-doing interiors on business jets is 'GA', hanging antennas on King Airs for the government is 'GA', maintaining news-helicopters is 'GA'.

There are lots of areas where people make good money. Doesn't mean this would be readily accessible to someone who wants to do A&P work as a second career, but the idea that all non-airline mechanics are starving is imnho simply not true.
 
My dad is an A&P.....he works on heavy equipment....why? It pays better.

Tough to find a good paying A&P job....not impossible...but there are much better mechanic jobs out there that will pay you more.
 
wilkersk said:
Not neccesarily true Tom.
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It is when they follow their own rules, But often the inspectors don't know their own rules. make them look up the guidance they get. The MOS or NEC tells the inspectors what portion of the certificate they are allowed to give you. Being in the military aviation MOS/NEC automatically gets you the "G",
 
Maxmosbey said:
If you go our on your own, you are going to need an IA.

NO you can use a IA for the major repairs and 337s , I have A&Ps bring me that stuff almost every month.

You are really limited to what you can do without one. A&P mechanics are expected to have most of their own hand tools. That is a huge expense starting out.
BS,
If you decide to go it on your own, you will need a lot of specialized tools,
Like what

and that is big bucks.

I'm a A&P-IA and have less than $500 in hand tools.

Also if you go it alone, you are going to have to have some experience. It is not something you just go out and shade tree. The IA rating is not easy to get.

Bull sit-- again, Courses are on the FAA web site and free.

It takes time, there are requirements to keeping it updated, and the FAA checks up on them pretty regularly.

I have been a IA for a long time nd never have been "Checked up on"

Finally, and this is what made me put up my wrenches, there is a huge liability issue. Especially if you are out there on your own. You will be working on forty and fifty year old airplanes, that are falling apart in some cases, and you will be signing your name, saying that they are airworthy. You can be as careful and as thorough you can possibly be, but those rivets and cables and all that tubing have been flexing and vibrating for a long long time.

That's true of any profession

A lot of owners go to hanger mechanics because they think they can get a deal. They just want to get one more year out of the fabric, or fifty more hours out of the engine. They beg and cry and stomp around. I know some hanger mechanics that will sell their signature, but that's not me. When I was on my own, I really felt like my neck was sticking out, and I was being thorough in everything I was doing. Which brings me to my final point. Being out there alone, without a shop and without other mechanics to help you is hard. Just jacking up a plane and cycling the landing gear is not a one man job. I found it very hard to do a good job, and charge enough to make it worth my time. That is my experience. I really sound like a downer, and I'm not. I mean, if that is what you want to do, go for it, but I think that you need to go into it with your eyes open, and I guess that is what I'm trying to show you
Click to expand...

You need to raise your view above the horizon and look around, there is lot of A&Ps working every day, doing good job, making the proper entries, and you never hear of them, because 2% make 100% of the news.
 
" " Finally, and this is what made me put up my wrenches, there is a huge liability issue. Especially if you are out there on your own. You will be working on forty and fifty year old airplanes, that are falling apart in some cases, and you will be signing your name, saying that they are airworthy. "

that is simply dumber than ****.
 
Tom-D said:
It is when they follow their own rules, But often the inspectors don't know their own rules. make them look up the guidance they get. The MOS or NEC tells the inspectors what portion of the certificate they are allowed to give you. Being in the military aviation MOS/NEC automatically gets you the "G",
Click to expand...

Tom,

How far back can you go? I was an Apache crew chief (67R back then, now 15R) but that was 20 years ago. I want to persue my A&P once I retire for good from the military. If I need to go through the full school, so be it. Would be nice if some still gets converted.

Cheers,
Brian
 
Tom-D said:
SO.... you make your own.
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So you make your own job....hit n miss and hope your family isn't on welfare.

Cool if you can make it....but it's very rare.

GA mechanics are dying and have been since my dad got a clue in 1980. There are a handful of successful outfits out there specializing in their aviation trade. But if your a skilled "wrench" you will make far more money for your family in a different mechanical trade.

Why can't you find a good mechanic and why are they few and far between in aviation?


Good mechanics follow the money.....rest is aviation.
 
It's difficult for anyone, in any field, to succeed starting their own business. Many are very good at their trade, but poor at sales, managing the money, etc.
 
flight2000 said:
Tom,

How far back can you go? I was an Apache crew chief (67R back then, now 15R) but that was 20 years ago. I want to persue my A&P once I retire for good from the military. If I need to go through the full school, so be it. Would be nice if some still gets converted.

Cheers,
Brian
Click to expand...
Why wait? check with FSDO now, Just as I said above.
 
There's also a FB site for A&Ps....you could post your questions there also. Some very knowledgeable guys there.

FB search: FAA Aircraft Inspection Authorization & Inspectors
 
Thank you.

It seems like I need to look at this as a "post-retirement" gig. I will check with the local repair facility when the time is right, and see if I can get a zero-experience starting gig. Washing planes, sweeping, etc. See where it goes from there.


A&P and IA would be useful if I want to go out on my own. I learned that an IA does not need to fix planes or return them to service, just inspect and either sign off as inspected and airworthy, or as inspected and needing repairs in which case an A&P (or an owner if owner maint item) can repair and return to service. Inspection is different than repair...did not know that til now.
 
Interesting topic. I've wanted to get my A&P for a while just for working on my own plane and perhaps a few hangar buddy's as well. I have 10 years experience working on jet engines in the Air Force, don't know how far that will get me towards an A&P license but I need to look into it.
 
FWIW...I have several aircraft owners, for all intents and purposes, do all their own work and are not A&Ps.

You just need an IA who will "supervise" your work. :D
 
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