New and Don’t know what to do.

Ryanb said:
That’s an obvious point, however, by the looks of this airplane, it does not appear to have been well cared for. I’d be extremely cautious taking that thing out flying after what looks like years of neglect and if the annual only lasts two days on something like that, I’d be even more cautious at how competent and thorough the A&P is.
Click to expand...

Again, there is no specific statement by the OP the annual is/was a two day affair. He said it will be completed Tuesday, and that he hopes to fly the aircraft to NC on Thursday. The fact he has posted photos of work in progress and mentioned interactions with his mechanic indicate the process was put in motion several days ago.
 
3393RP said:
Again, there is no specific statement by the OP the annual is/was a two day affair. He said it will be completed Tuesday, and that he hopes to fly the aircraft to NC on Thursday. The fact he has posted photos of work in progress and mentioned interactions with his mechanic indicate the process was put in motion several days ago.
Click to expand...
Right. Just note that I said ‘IF’ it only lasted two days. It’s still a bit unclear for everyone as to when it began.
 
Ryanb said:
That’s an obvious point, however, by the looks of this airplane, it does not appear to have been well cared for. I’d be extremely cautious taking that thing out flying after what looks like years of neglect and if the annual only lasts two days on something like that, I’d be even more cautious at how competent and thorough the A&P is.
Click to expand...

I just meant in the perspective that the mechanic has already started work on the plane. The annual inspection itself might only take 2 days but if the mechanic has already spent a month scouring the plane doing maintenance... Did the annual technically take longer than 2 days?


TK211X said:
This looks like a great opportunity to build some hours and have some fun once the mechanic does what he needs to and signs it off. Even though the plane has been sitting it's been registered from 2014 to 2018. I've sent @Madison890 an email and offered to help.
Click to expand...

Considering registration is good for 3 years, this means the plane was last registered about a year before it was last in annual (which mades it even more unairworthy being both de-registered and out of annual).

I also wouldn't draw much of a conclusion from the registration. It costs $5.00 to register a plane for 3 years. That's not a very high bar. A lot of people will pay $5.00 just to avoid losing the N-Number.

As to the experience. I'm a bit more mixed on this opinion.

The OP is a 0-time initial PPL student. They're not prepared to plan the XC themselves or even have the base understanding needed to discuss many of the considerations of this particular XC and retain the information. Same goes for the flying, assuming they're not already saturated at the outset, they'll quickly reach their saturation point and have reduced educational returns. There's a reason why initial flights are typically kept short.

There's not going to be a lot of things educationally for the OP to learn anyway... We're talking 2-3 landings and takeoffs and the rest of the flight should be enroute, straight-and-level flight. Sure you could break off and do some basic maneuvers but in order for the flight to be completed in a single day the flight needs to be conducted with minimal dilly-dallying. You're probably looking at close to 10 hours from start to finish with the timezone change, preflight/runup, speed of flight, fuel/lunch stop, etc. Even with 14 hour days that's not accounting for winds, deviations or other reasons it might take longer.

Additionally, in the event an issue does occur on the flight, it will be before they are ready to handle such a situation and it may well rock their confidence in the plane and turn them off flying before they even really get started.

Lastly, having a passenger, especially a novice, increases the risk and complexity of the ferry flight and if I were to ferry the plane, I would prefer to be solo for that reason though I wouldn't bar the op from their own plane and would therefore be willing to have the Op on board as a passenger/semi-student/helper. Having them on board as a full-student looking to log their own time and having to teach (and assume the liability of it; especially given the Op's lack of a CFI to hand them off to at the other end and the fact that willfully or not, they've already flown in the plane in opposition to the FAR's with it out of annual) effectively increases the risk and complexity and would mean I (and likely any other CFI) would expect to be compensated for the instruction time above any compensation received for the ferry flight. This is going to increase the OPs total cost for very little gain.

Oh and let's not forget the rule of primacy and the fact that what the one-time CFI teaches them on this flight is likely to be different than their future CFI's methods and program...
 
Tom-D said:
That did not answer the question.
What happens to the water in an engine when it sets for a long period?
Click to expand...
One of three things....
- Some of it evaporates
- Some of it reacts, forming rust or other corrosion (as seen in another post in this thread), or interacting with various alkenes, or other compounds, to form other compounds such alcohols.
- Some of it sits in the engine, either separating from the oil or staying suspended as an emulsion.

I'm sure his mechanic checked to see things are OK in the engine.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
One of three things....
- Some of it evaporates
- Some of it reacts, forming rust or other corrosion (as seen in another post in this thread), or interacting with various alkenes, or other compounds, to form other compounds such alcohols.
- Some of it sits in the engine, either separating from the oil or staying suspended as an emulsion.

I'm sure his mechanic checked to see things are OK in the engine.
Click to expand...
Water will not stay on parts long, Eventually it will condense and run down to the lowest point in the engine and set there until disturbed.

Most engines I see are placed in storage after a flight when the pilot never returns, they will set for years with no problem. 34V was flown from Minn. to Wa. then placed in a hangar, it sat until 2013, there was virtually no corrosion in the cylinders, just a brown smudge you could wipe out with a rag.
 
Tom-D said:
Water will not stay on parts long, Eventually it will condense and run down to the lowest point in the engine and set there until disturbed.

Most engines I see are placed in storage after a flight when the pilot never returns, they will set for years with no problem. 34V was flown from Minn. to Wa. then placed in a hangar, it sat until 2013, there was virtually no corrosion in the cylinders, just a brown smudge you could wipe out with a rag.
Click to expand...
So, just as I said.
- Some of it evaporated.
-
virtually no corrosion in the cylinders, just a brown smudge you could wipe out with a rag.
Click to expand...
= Some of it reacted
-
run down to the lowest point in the engine and set there until disturbed.
Click to expand...
= Some of it sits in the engine, either separating from the oil or staying suspended as an emulsion.

I hope the OP's mechanic found things as you described.
 
Cap'n Jack said:
I hope the OP's mechanic found things as you described.
Click to expand...
Fact is, no one should make a flat statement that all engines that have sat a long time have corrosion problems.
I've said on here many times all engines are Pandora's box, because there are way too many factors involved in the chemistry of corrosion, for all engines to be the same.
 
Tom-D said:
Water will not stay on parts long, Eventually it will condense and run down to the lowest point in the engine and set there until disturbed.

Most engines I see are placed in storage after a flight when the pilot never returns, they will set for years with no problem. 34V was flown from Minn. to Wa. then placed in a hangar, it sat until 2013, there was virtually no corrosion in the cylinders, just a brown smudge you could wipe out with a rag.
Click to expand...

You really should have read that article I posted. A couple of excerpts:

Early in this research project, it was clear that there is little agreement on many facts relating to aircraft engine corrosion. There are even facts that go completely against popularly held opinions. The first and most obvious is the popular adage "oil and water don’t mix."

When an engine oil is exposed to heat, a process called "oxidation" is started. When oxidized oil is mixed with moisture as discussed earlier it often forms an acid which attacks metal surfaces.

The water doesn't just run down and under the oil. When the engine is running it mixes, since there so much oil being flung around in the case, and you get that frothy brown crud: an emulsion of oil and water. In the presence of metal it reacts to form acids. The process has been understood for a long time, and in automobiles the PCV system and much closer tolerances cleared it up. Aircraft engines, being air-cooled and needing larger clearances, and having high manifold pressures, can't use a PCV system, so that moisture that gets past the rings while the engine is warming up and clearances are still large, has to be driven off by flying the thing, getting the clearances closed up and having the heat do the job. Your 34V was flown from MN to WA and put in a hangar, hot, and didn't have any chance to build a bunch of moisture in the case before shutdown. Engines like that WILL be found clean and in good condition years later, as long as they're not ground-run in the meantime.

From https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/14/lubricant-oxidation

...we read:

Lubricant oxidation is serious business. Not only is the lubricant’s performance diminished, the acids produced can increase corrosive component wear. It is important to understand the process and root causes of oxidation and the warning signals generated by oil analysis.

Sulfuric, hydrochloric, nitric, phophoric and carboxylic acids have been found in engine oils. I'm sure there must be chemists around here than can post the chemical formulae for the metal-catalyzed reactions between the oil, combustion byproducts and moisture that create the acids. Or we can just read the stuff the engineers publish for us and not worry about what molecules do with each other, but instead deal with the problem.

More: https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/192/water-contaminant-oil

Not only does water have a direct harmful affect on machine components, but it also plays a direct role in the aging rate of lubricating oils. The presence of water in a lubricating oil can cause the progress of oxidation to increase tenfold, resulting in premature aging of the oil, particularly in the presence of catalytic metals such as copper, lead and tin.


In addition, certain types of synthetic oils such as phosphate esters and dibasic esters are known to react with water, resulting in the destruction of the base stock and the formation of acids.


It is not just the base oil that can be affected by moisture contamination. Certain additives such as sulfurous AW and EP type additives and phenolic antioxidants are readily hydrolyzed by water, resulting in both additive mortality and the formation of acidic by-products.


These acidic by-products can then cause corrosive wear, particularly in components containing soft metals such as Babbitt used with journal bearings and bronze and brass components. Other additives such as demulsifying agents, dispersants, detergents and rust inhibitors can be washed away by excessive moisture. This results in sludge and sediment buildup, filter plugging and poor oil/water demulsibility.

From http://www.lubewhiz.in/lubrication_enemy_water_II.html

While water may not directly react with hydrocarbons, it helps to promote base oil oxidation, particularly in the presence of wear metals like Fe, Cu, & Sn which act as catalysts. In some types of fluids, water can react with the base oil resulting in the formation of sludge, acids and deposits. Control systems using Phosphate Ester fluids are particularly susceptible to such hydrolysis. Sulphur Phosphorus EP additives can release sulphuric & phosphoric acids in the presence of water. Water also attacks, hydrolyzes , agglomerates, consumes orsimply washes away a host of other additives such as AW, Rust Inhibitors, Antioxidants, Dispersants, Detergents, Demulsfying agents. Once such additive depletion has taken place rapid deterioration of lubricant & attack on machinery sets in. By-products of oil degradation can react with emulsified water to form resinious, sticky materials. Often, Sludge and Varnish formation along with the resultant restrictions on oil flow, valve stiction, bearing metal wipeout, etc can be directly attributed to the presence of water in the oil.

https://www.lelubricants.com/documents/resources/water_contamination_0509.pdf is a really good paper on what happens between oil and water.

I could go on, but maybe you get the point?
 
apr911 said:
Though a little late now and arguably you didn't know any better being new, probably not the best idea to start your flying career with an admission of flying in an unairworthy/out-of-annual plane unless you had a special permit from the FAA (which usually wont allow passengers anyway), you might want to avoid admitting that in the future.
Click to expand...

As an unlicensed passenger, he has no legal liability for the flight, it's all on the pilot in command.
 
Dan Thomas said:
You really should have read that article I posted. A couple of excerpts:

Early in this research project, it was clear that there is little agreement on many facts relating to aircraft engine corrosion. There are even facts that go completely against popularly held opinions. The first and most obvious is the popular adage "oil and water don’t mix."

When an engine oil is exposed to heat, a process called "oxidation" is started. When oxidized oil is mixed with moisture as discussed earlier it often forms an acid which attacks metal surfaces.

The water doesn't just run down and under the oil. When the engine is running it mixes, since there so much oil being flung around in the case, and you get that frothy brown crud: an emulsion of oil and water. In the presence of metal it reacts to form acids. The process has been understood for a long time, and in automobiles the PCV system and much closer tolerances cleared it up. Aircraft engines, being air-cooled and needing larger clearances, and having high manifold pressures, can't use a PCV system, so that moisture that gets past the rings while the engine is warming up and clearances are still large, has to be driven off by flying the thing, getting the clearances closed up and having the heat do the job. Your 34V was flown from MN to WA and put in a hangar, hot, and didn't have any chance to build a bunch of moisture in the case before shutdown. Engines like that WILL be found clean and in good condition years later, as long as they're not ground-run in the meantime.

From https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/14/lubricant-oxidation

...we read:

Lubricant oxidation is serious business. Not only is the lubricant’s performance diminished, the acids produced can increase corrosive component wear. It is important to understand the process and root causes of oxidation and the warning signals generated by oil analysis.

Sulfuric, hydrochloric, nitric, phophoric and carboxylic acids have been found in engine oils. I'm sure there must be chemists around here than can post the chemical formulae for the metal-catalyzed reactions between the oil, combustion byproducts and moisture that create the acids. Or we can just read the stuff the engineers publish for us and not worry about what molecules do with each other, but instead deal with the problem.

More: https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/192/water-contaminant-oil

Not only does water have a direct harmful affect on machine components, but it also plays a direct role in the aging rate of lubricating oils. The presence of water in a lubricating oil can cause the progress of oxidation to increase tenfold, resulting in premature aging of the oil, particularly in the presence of catalytic metals such as copper, lead and tin.


In addition, certain types of synthetic oils such as phosphate esters and dibasic esters are known to react with water, resulting in the destruction of the base stock and the formation of acids.


It is not just the base oil that can be affected by moisture contamination. Certain additives such as sulfurous AW and EP type additives and phenolic antioxidants are readily hydrolyzed by water, resulting in both additive mortality and the formation of acidic by-products.


These acidic by-products can then cause corrosive wear, particularly in components containing soft metals such as Babbitt used with journal bearings and bronze and brass components. Other additives such as demulsifying agents, dispersants, detergents and rust inhibitors can be washed away by excessive moisture. This results in sludge and sediment buildup, filter plugging and poor oil/water demulsibility.

From http://www.lubewhiz.in/lubrication_enemy_water_II.html

While water may not directly react with hydrocarbons, it helps to promote base oil oxidation, particularly in the presence of wear metals like Fe, Cu, & Sn which act as catalysts. In some types of fluids, water can react with the base oil resulting in the formation of sludge, acids and deposits. Control systems using Phosphate Ester fluids are particularly susceptible to such hydrolysis. Sulphur Phosphorus EP additives can release sulphuric & phosphoric acids in the presence of water. Water also attacks, hydrolyzes , agglomerates, consumes orsimply washes away a host of other additives such as AW, Rust Inhibitors, Antioxidants, Dispersants, Detergents, Demulsfying agents. Once such additive depletion has taken place rapid deterioration of lubricant & attack on machinery sets in. By-products of oil degradation can react with emulsified water to form resinious, sticky materials. Often, Sludge and Varnish formation along with the resultant restrictions on oil flow, valve stiction, bearing metal wipeout, etc can be directly attributed to the presence of water in the oil.

https://www.lelubricants.com/documents/resources/water_contamination_0509.pdf is a really good paper on what happens between oil and water.

I could go on, but maybe you get the point?
Click to expand...
Good articles on oils and lubricants, and what happens in operating engines. Now tell us about what happens in an engine that is sludge up and dormant for long periods.
 
Dana said:
As an unlicensed passenger, he has no legal liability for the flight, it's all on the pilot in command.
Click to expand...

Sure but PIC or not, doesnt mean you should go out and volunteer this type of information.
 
How many folks here will understand when I say that the aircraft in this thread will under go a "wakeup period"
All airworthiness issues will be made airworthy, but there will be a long list of "these need to be addressed" too.
 
Madison890 said:
It is at a private strip where 2 other planes are kept. Both those planes owned by commercial pilot and wife. They and the owner both stated the plane has been flying a good bit the last 3 years owner just didn’t do annual.
Click to expand...
If this is true it would seem all the concern of it just sitting there is getting pretty out of hand. The owner (now seller) flying it out of annual is between that person and the FAA. For all we know @Madison890 is gonna have a safe, flyable plane for about $15K. He will learn to fly in it and save a bit more. And then he'll decided to what to fix and add along the way.

To be sure it was flown (when out of the annual) there should be a pretty decent increase on the tach from the last annual until what it read when you bought it. If you know these two numbers would you mind sharing?'

Unless you have a really crooked mechanic working on the plane, they know you are about to fly it over 500miles back home and have a lot on the line so your new (to you) plane is gonna make it home just fine. Of course you will still find other things wrong but it should be airworthy and safe.

Good luck on your flight home! Wasn't sure if you'd ride with or not. It is so cool to see these older planes made to fly again vs rot away.
 
ircphoenix said:
Arguing with Tom-D is like playing chess with a pigeon...
Click to expand...
You don't have a clue, so you bad mouth. Too bad you try to drag the thread down into the mud.

Simply shows us who you are.
 
ircphoenix said:
No NTSB reports with my name attached to them my friend.
Click to expand...
What’s your point?

I know a few people personally who have been involved in NTSB reports. Doesn’t make them any less credible.

Tom has been an A&P for decades. Everyone should be thankful that he still contributes his wealth of knowledge to this board.
 
What I really want to know is if you are going to reinstall the toilet depicted in picture #3?
 
Tom-D said:
How many folks here will understand when I say that the aircraft in this thread will under go a "wakeup period"
All airworthiness issues will be made airworthy, but there will be a long list of "these need to be addressed" too.
Click to expand...

And how do you know what will happen with this plane? I didn't know you were involved with it.
 
SkyDog58 said:
And how do you know what will happen with this plane? I didn't know you were involved with it.
Click to expand...
He’s just speaking in general terms. If it’s undergoing an extensive annual as the OP says, than its likely that the kinks will get worked out and will become airworthy again. Obviously we won’t know until it flies, but Tom is correct in what he’s saying.
 
I did quite a bit of training at Maxton-laurinburg. I see it is now called Laurinburg-Maxton. Alphabetization Nazis have to change everything...

I also see they have reopened runway 31-13. It has a new displaced threshold because there is a 747 with no engines blocking the taxiway, ha ha! :eek:
 
Madison890 said:
There was mouse **** everywhere. Glove box had a nest in it. They got 1 or 2 wires. They went to the comm box?? Mechanic found and is fixing/ did fix. I brought outside mainly to keep mice away and allow plane to bask in the light. Mainly to keep them out though. I’ve attached a pic of glove box nest and wire eaten. Mechanic said two I don’t know where the other was located, but I have gained a very early trust in this man. He’s as old as Alabama and doesn’t pull punches at all. I’ll have all his contact info and a great Refferal after this process is completed.
Click to expand...
That’s a hotel, not a nest!!!
 
Ryanb said:
What’s your point?

I know a few people personally who have been involved in NTSB reports. Doesn’t make them any less credible.

Tom has been an A&P for decades. Everyone should be thankful that he still contributes his wealth of knowledge to this board.
Click to expand...
Never think about what ircphoenix says he must drag others down to his level to make himself feel good.
 
apr911 said:
I think some of us have lost sight of the fact that maintenance can be done outside of an annual inspection. In other words, from the information provided so far there should be "no surprises" during the annual because the mechanic has been working on getting the plane up to snuff so that he can do the annual June 4-6 and have it pass. At least that's what it sounds like.



Given the amount of dust on the plane and the level of mouse infestation (though I know they can move in quick), it doesn't look like the plane has actually been flying/running in at least 1-2 years. You could at least get an idea of how much the engine has been run by looking at the current tach time vs the tach time at the time of last annual.



Though a little late now and arguably you didn't know any better being new, probably not the best idea to start your flying career with an admission of flying in an unairworthy/out-of-annual plane unless you had a special permit from the FAA (which usually wont allow passengers anyway), you might want to avoid admitting that in the future.



^^ This. I had a truck that was prone to sitting for months at a time and/or only doing short trips. The last time I took it out was just to get the oil changed and the oil was frothy white. It comes from the oil mixing with water and you have to get the engine hot enough and run it long enough to burn off the condensation inside the crankcase.

If you dont, all you end up doing is taking that water already in the crankcase and pushing it throughout the engine which then leads to corrosion to more than just your oil pan.
Click to expand...


Guys and ladies I really do appreciate all the good advice and help. I have printed these pages and will be heading to AR wednesday to be with the mechanic while he does his work. I found out today that he won’t be able to make it until Wednesday. Thank you for all the offers of help. I will be replying to everyone’s email before Thursday with more information. I will also grab some more pictures and be sure to post them. I started today on the process of getting my student certificate. I can’t get an appointment with a doc until next week in Charlotte. Ive been speaking with a great fan rep and she has got me squared away on the tail #. I was expecting to pay close to 3-4K to get it in annual and then home. I after speaking to mechanic think that might be a realistic number. I’ll be sure next time she’s up to run her for a longer period of time. I’ll also be asking about the Sump seal and any modifications to make her more safe. Thanks again guy. I’ll be sure to post more.
 
apr911 said:
Not really sure why my post was the one that you elected to quote in your comment. I didn't make any disaster predictions and the remainder was just an observation that I find it unlikely the plane has flown much if at all in the last year or 2 given the level of dust and mouse infestation.

As to the question of annual, we actually do have a clue as the op flat out stated the plane hasn't been in annual in 3 years, is going to have an annual inspection done in the coming days and has been flown by the previous owner without annual so unless he flew in it 3 years ago (which was not the implication by "after oil and battery change") then he flew in an unairworthy airplane and should be careful who he says that to even if he wasn't the PIC and was just along for the ride. I'm not saying that to give him a hard time, I'm saying that so that he keeps himself out of trouble.

Even without the dire disaster predictions, the advice being given to "break in" the plane a bit before going on a 600 mile long cross-country is sound advice given the age of the airplane and the readily apparent lack of upkeep on the plane, even with a capable mechanic. I'd also note most of us are not giving the OP a hard time but encouragement, support and things to look out for/be prepared for.
Click to expand...


I’m taking it as support and encouragement. Thanks for letting me know about illegal activity. Come to think of it I might have dreamt that post purchase flight. Thanks again.
 
Ryanb said:
Right. Just note that I said ‘IF’ it only lasted two days. It’s still a bit unclear for everyone as to when it began.
Click to expand...


Yeah man my fault. I don’t really know when it started either, but the mechanic has made 3 trips already and as of toda said he will have it done by Friday. He is bringing parts and supplies wednesday and will start I guess really getting into it then. He has been there three times to inspect and maybe gather a parts list? There is no electrical or water and is in that part of the country that tends to rain a bit more than others. I think the weather has had more of an affect on his time table than anything. Sorry for the confusion I don’t know exactly how it usually goes so I don’t know how this differs from a normal annual. The mechanic is also stationed about two hours away and I think that affects how this is playing out as well. Thanks for the advice and sorry for the confusion.
 
Tom-D said:
How many folks here will understand when I say that the aircraft in this thread will under go a "wakeup period"
All airworthiness issues will be made airworthy, but there will be a long list of "these need to be addressed" too.
Click to expand...

I don’t know what some of these acronyms are but I’ll learn quickly. It’s funny you mention that the mechanic has mentioned probably eight things that he says are on the nice to get to later list. He has a completely separate list in order to get it in annual. I thought it was funny when he said nice to get to later, I asked what it would take to get to it all now and he said a mechanic with more time on his hands. Haha most of the ‘nice to’ list involves cosmetics. He recommended I find a knowledgeable mechanic in my area.
 
Luigi said:
What I really want to know is if you are going to reinstall the toilet depicted in picture #3?
Click to expand...


Hahaha man there was some scary scary stuff in that hangar. I wish I had more pics of other things worse things than that toilet. If I wasn’t so excited about the plane I might have a Valid PTSD claim moving forward.
 
Madison890 said:
I don’t know what some of these acronyms are but I’ll learn quickly. It’s funny you mention that the mechanic has mentioned probably eight things that he says are on the nice to get to later list. He has a completely separate list in order to get it in annual. I thought it was funny when he said nice to get to later, I asked what it would take to get to it all now and he said a mechanic with more time on his hands. Haha most of the ‘nice to’ list involves cosmetics. He recommended I find a knowledgeable mechanic in my area.
Click to expand...
Once you get it flying you'll understand what I mean. things that have not run for a while tend to be short lifed.
 
Sinistar said:
If this is true it would seem all the concern of it just sitting there is getting pretty out of hand. The owner (now seller) flying it out of annual is between that person and the FAA. For all we know @Madison890 is gonna have a safe, flyable plane for about $15K. He will learn to fly in it and save a bit more. And then he'll decided to what to fix and add along the way.

To be sure it was flown (when out of the annual) there should be a pretty decent increase on the tach from the last annual until what it read when you bought it. If you know these two numbers would you mind sharing?'

Unless you have a really crooked mechanic working on the plane, they know you are about to fly it over 500miles back home and have a lot on the line so your new (to you) plane is gonna make it home just fine. Of course you will still find other things wrong but it should be airworthy and safe.

Good luck on your flight home! Wasn't sure if you'd ride with or not. It is so cool to see these older planes made to fly again vs rot away.
Click to expand...


I left the logs with the mechanic, but there was a difference between last annual and tach time. I could be Wrong but I was thinking it was close to 20 hours difference. With the amount of dust on the outside of the plane I assumed it had been sitting for at least three years which would make sense being that’s how long it has been out of annual. Having Now spoken to more people in the area it now seems that maybe it had been sitting much less than that. That area of the country I guess is constantly gusty and has plenty of dirt to accumulate a larger amount of dust that I am used to. Again no way far me to tell, but I’ve been described as annoying optimistic so I’ll try and believe it’s sat less than three years. I can’t imagine it’s been flown in at least a year though. I am going to try and fly with it Is i can. Not concerned about logging flight hours just interested in the experience. I’m a former Army infantryman and find it hard to imagine anything too scary to get me to shy away from flying and having fun in the air. Ive been wrong before though so we will see. Whoever ends up flying it back will have final say on who rides though.
 
It could have flown for 12 calendar months after the date of the last annual. 20 hours wouldn't surprise me.
then it only sat 2 years.
 
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