Negative ANN article about Cirrus

No comments yet about the latest in the continuing saga from ANN today??? I am surprised.

We had the wavy American flag picture (literally), the self-proclaimed patriot waging yet another David and Goliath battle (how many does that make now, and what do they all have in common), claiming victory and completeley ignoring 2/3 of the whole story.

Come on guys....I know you wanna....

'Gimp
 
I for one think his heart is in the right place with a lot of his ideas, and applaud him for that. Too bad he is a nutter, though, as it certainly prevents him from accomplishing much of what he sets out to do...
 
It made my day to see this thread pop up again! Where's the popcorn eating guy?
 
dell30rb said:
I've never even heard of ANN prior to this.

With some exceptions, anyone representing themselves in court is probably a dumbass
Click to expand...


First time I heard of ANN they were doing a balm piece on Sun N Fun or Air venture or someone who refused letting them on the property because of some craziness. So I am wondering if this guy doesn't just have drama following him.

Does anyone else remember this situation from about 5 years ago? It seems inappropriate for them to use their news media as a retaliation tool for personal vendettas.
 
Tony_Scarpelli said:
First time I heard of ANN they were doing a balm piece on Sun N Fun or Air venture or someone who refused letting them on the property because of some craziness. So I am wondering if this guy doesn't just have drama following him.

Does anyone else remember this situation from about 5 years ago? It seems inappropriate for them to use their news media as a retaliation tool for personal vendettas.
Click to expand...

Campbell used his magazine (US Aviator - now defunct) to pursue his personal vendettas. He used ANN for the same purpose, largely against SnF and Cirrus more recently. He's used the court system that way too (See: RAH 15). In each case, it was him against the world, good vs evil, and in each case, he lost.

So, yes, there is a pattern of drama.
 
jm0045 said:
Fasten your seat belts. http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=84b5cc0a-bfe4-4231-9cff-d180ab8d147c
Click to expand...

Thar she blows, and sparm at that.

Couple of things that came to mind. Campbell claims he's going to publish eight books; upcoming books that never occur are a recurring theme. Most of the time, they don't come true, from the supposed novel in the late '80s, to the claimed collaboration with EAA to re-publish his sportplane guide about eight years ago*.

A bit better chance now, though, with the print-on-demand services. He had been hit by several lawsuits involving non-payment to book and magazine printers 10-15 years ago (lost 'em all, of course), but with print-on-demand, he wouldn't need to generate a large up-front press run. However, I suspect the POD vendors don't tend to give credit, though they probably take MasterCard. He could run up his credit cards and then declare bankruptcy, like he did in '97.

Second, it's interesting to note that he basically admits that no legitimate aviation organization was willing to help him. It's possible this may force them to make public statements as to *why*. But I doubt it.

Finally, it'll be interesting to see how he treats Cirrus' attorneys. Campbell got in deep trouble by publishing insulting and untrue things about Tony Pucillo. Reading the various court documents in the Cirrus case, Mr. Johnson does not appear to be one who suffers fools gladly...

Ron Wanttaja

* Never heard why his deal with EAA fell through. Two guesses: First, since EAA was funding the deal, EAA demanded editorial control which Campbell wouldn't relinquish. Second, the deal was set up by relatively recent EAA hires, and the long-time folks said "WHAT ARE YOU THINKING!!!!" and getting it quashed. Note that a member of the RAH-15 (not me) was one of the EAA's writers back then....
 
Tony_Scarpelli said:
...It seems inappropriate for them to use their news media as a retaliation tool for personal vendettas.
Click to expand...

It may be the other way around. I believe ANN exists solely for the self-aggrandizement of its creator, and what's inappropriate is to refer to it as a news medium.
 
PW_Plack said:
It may be the other way around. I believe ANN exists solely for the self-aggrandizement of its creator, and what's inappropriate is to refer to it as a news medium.
Click to expand...

The best thing to come out of ANN was your daily podcasts...even if they were a little heavy on the rotorcraft stuff! :D I especially liked the Mondays with Bob Miller.
 
Tony_Scarpelli said:
First time I heard of ANN they were doing a balm piece on Sun N Fun or Air venture or someone who refused letting them on the property because of some craziness. So I am wondering if this guy doesn't just have drama following him.

Does anyone else remember this situation from about 5 years ago? It seems inappropriate for them to use their news media as a retaliation tool for personal vendettas.
Click to expand...
The Sun-N-Fun conflict goes way back; I've been told it actually dates to the early-90s when SnF picked another vendor to publish their official daily newspaper during the fly-in.

He was ejected the first time in ~95, and a second time, permanently, in 1998. According to the then-President of Sun-N-Fun, Campbell was having confrontations...including physical confrontations...with vendors, fly-in volunteers, and former associates on fly-in grounds. The president said Campbell agreed to stop disrupting the fly-in, but continued to.

He also had at least two incidents where he was claimed to have been struck by golf carts operated by SnF volunteers, and threatened to sue.

Campbell sued SnF, claiming violation of his First Amendment rights. The judge ruled against him.

I've attached a PDF of a text file of the transcript of this hearing (e.g., this is NOT directly from the official paperwork). It includes some details of the reasons for his banning.

Ron Wanttaja
 

Attachments

  • Sun-N-Fun case transcript.pdf
    162.1 KB · Views: 16
Last edited:
wanttaja said:
...the claimed collaboration with EAA to re-publish his sportplane guide about eight years ago*. [emphasis added]
Click to expand...
Said collaboration was announced by Zoom *and* The EAA. I cut up my membership and tech counselor cards within days of the announcement and corresponded with EAA staff over their support - they defended the support. I'll rejoind when an EAA representative (not a regular member) tells me, publically or privately, that they've rescinded the support. Enquiries to EAA have gone unanswered.

Nauga,
who joined the RAH15 and got a free suit but it was poorly made and fell apart :lol:
 
nauga said:
Nauga,
who joined the RAH15 and got a free suit but it was poorly made and fell apart :lol:
Click to expand...

I wonder how many of the original RAH-15 are hanging around PoA? I wasn't part of the "in crowd", but did watch the whole spectacle unfold from the sidelines. Ron and John's "Zoomed" web sites seem almost comical today, but it was pretty serious back then. The least little criticism of Campbell on usenet resulted in the threat of law suit(sometimes actually served) and "govern yourself accordingly" warnings from him. Then along came the late Tony Pucillo(a Florida licensed attorney) who basically did the internet equivalent of punching the schoolyard bully in the mouth. It was epic at the time; although I'm sure it was less "fun" for those that had to actually deal with the law suits...
 
KSMooniac said:
I for one think his heart is in the right place with a lot of his ideas, and applaud him for that. Too bad he is a nutter, though, as it certainly prevents him from accomplishing much of what he sets out to do...
Click to expand...

If you think that, it's because you don't know him. His heart is not in any place than to suit his own ego and he'll trample anybody or anything to stoke that. He's only transiently aligned with the common man. As my daddy would say, "Even a stopped clock is right twice a day."
 
wanttaja said:
* Never heard why his deal with EAA fell through. Two guesses: First, since EAA was funding the deal, EAA demanded editorial control which Campbell wouldn't relinquish. Second, the deal was set up by relatively recent EAA hires, and the long-time folks said "WHAT ARE YOU THINKING!!!!" and getting it quashed. Note that a member of the RAH-15 (not me) was one of the EAA's writers back then....
Click to expand...

HE's been snubbed a few times by the EAA both on the directory and the publication of the daily newspaper. The biggest credit to the EAA is they just ignore him rather than baiting him like the SNF folk.
 
Last edited:
nauga said:
Said collaboration was announced by Zoom *and* The EAA.
Click to expand...

The distinguished Mr. Hyde is right, of course. Forgot the EAA announcement, moving it out of the "Bad Dream" category and into the "really, REALLY stupid idea" one.

nauga said:
I cut up my membership and tech counselor cards within days of the announcement and corresponded with EAA staff over their support - they defended the support. I'll rejoind when an EAA representative (not a regular member) tells me, publically or privately, that they've rescinded the support. Enquiries to EAA have gone unanswered.
Click to expand...

I suspect EAA is trying to walk the tightrope on this one. Zoom is apparently trying to keep on the good side of EAA; even when he complains on how EAA didn't help him against Cirrus, he specifically says the *Hightower* EAA.

Papa Foxtrot said:
I wonder how many of the original RAH-15 are hanging around PoA?
Click to expand...

Nauga is the only one that seems regular (and when you get to his age, regularity is important). I know one other RAH-15er lurks this thread on occasion (He has problems downloading the attachments and emails me for copies). I pass a POA link on occasion to John Ousterhout. Exchanged emails with Chuck S a number of months back (he seems to have recovered from his stroke), and see another RAH-15'er on the EAA magazine masthead occasionally. Touch one or two others on FB on occasion, three dead, and haven't heard from the last couple for quite a while.

Papa Foxtrot said:
I wasn't part of the "in crowd", but did watch the whole spectacle unfold from the sidelines. Ron and John's "Zoomed" web sites seem almost comical today, but it was pretty serious back then. The least little criticism of Campbell on usenet resulted in the threat of law suit(sometimes actually served) and "govern yourself accordingly" warnings from him.
Click to expand...

There's been enough crap happening on the Internet for the last ten years, that it doesn't seem unusual to most folks, but it really WAS a breakout case back them. USENET started as a communications medium using a network that joined companies and schools; "ISPs" in the modern sense didn't exist. The people on USENET generally had the same sorts of background and educational level, and access was nominally for professional purposes.

Then AOL and similar providers tied into USENET and it all changed.

The background really bit long-time users when the Campbell/RAH (rec.aviation.homebuilt, a USENET newsgroup) flamewars started. Most of the long-time users had accounts via their employers, and Campbell would call those employers and threaten to sue the companies over what the user said about him.

For example, one supervisor was called, and asked why he supported that terrorist, Bill Robie. He challenged Campbell's description of Bill as a terrorist, and Campbell hemmed and hawed and backed down a bit.

But show evidence? Of course not! He was protected by the First Amendment.

The problem was, all this Internet stuff was new...the lawyers and the higher mucky-mucks had no idea what was going on, except they were apparently going to get sued. The easiest solution was to kill the person's access. Bill's boss figured it out, but others weren't so lucky.

I was fortunate enough to have switched to a private ISP the year before. But at the time, I was working at a high-security job, and when Campbell publicly claimed that I was under investigation by the FBI, it triggered a *real* investigation at work. I dropped off RAH until that was resolved.

They eventually determined that there was no issue with me, and told me to (1) have no further contact with Jim Campbell, and (2) Report any other accusations.

In retrospect, it turned out to be a good thing...because security was now pre-disposed to disbelieve anything Campbell said about me, especially after I gave them printouts of all the emails he'd sent. The security guy used to smile when I showed up at his desk...

"Hey, Warren, Campbell says that I'm stalking his female employees." (answering machine message)

"Hey, Warren, now I'm a 'devil worshipper'." ("Anonymous" call to the publisher of KITPLANES magazine.

"This week I'm getting sued for conspiracy!" (RAH-15 case)

"Hey, Warren, jackpot: Campbell says I'm a terrorist!" (US Aviator editorial)

There were more, but after ~15-20 years, I'm losing track. :)

Anyway, today these sorts of things were common, but they were pretty rare in the aviation community in the early and mid '90s....

Ron Wanttaja
 
Just reading through all these pages of BS drama.

Wow! this Jim Campbell charachter sounds a lot like PZ Myers.
 
Noticed this snarky new pronouncement at the end of a story involving an SR22:

Legal Disclaimer: Please note that while ANN approves of, and endorses, the BRS technology that allowed for such a happy ending, that ANN neither endorses or approves of the current state and management of Cirrus Aircraft, itself.

It struck me as goofy to call it a "legal disclaimer," but I do appreciate knowing that, unless so disclaimed, editorial content may be assumed to constitute an endorsement.
 
Last edited:
PW_Plack said:
Noticed this snarky new pronouncement at the end of a story involving an SR22:

Legal Disclaimer: Please note that while ANN approves of, and endorses, the BRS technology that allowed for such a happy ending, that ANN neither endorses or approves of the current state and management of Cirrus Aircraft, itself.

It struck me as goofy to call it a "legal disclaimer," but I do appreciate knowing that, unless so disclaimed, editorial content may be assumed to constitute an endorsement.
Click to expand...

It does, until the checks stop.

Ron Wanttaja
 
jm0045 said:
Y He does mention one interesting idea, though: an aviation based reality TV show.
Click to expand...

Ya mean like, Alaska Wing Men, Flying Wild Alaska, Ice Pilots NWT, Airplane Repo, Dangerous Flights...?

Yeah! Somebody oughta do something like that!

"Airplane Possession is 9/10ths of the lawsuits"
 
mikea said:
Ya mean like, Alaska Wing Men, Flying Wild Alaska, Ice Pilots NWT, Airplane Repo, Dangerous Flights...?

Yeah! Somebody oughta do something like that!

"Airplane Possession is 9/10ths of the lawsuits"
Click to expand...

Yeah, I know, but one showcasing Zoom would be fascinating, don't you think?
 
jm0045 said:
Yeah, I know, but one showcasing Zoom would be fascinating, don't you think?
Click to expand...
Only if the series includes filming his visits to a psychiatrist. And maybe a voiceover by Ron Wanttaja...
 
The editorial seems to imply ANN is financially unable to launch its new initiatives, then ends with a link to an opportunity for the first 100 takers to pre-order a forthcoming book for $100 each.

If I decide to wait for the second printing, does that make me unfairly skeptical?
 
mikea said:
oldtimer said:
Yet another how-I'm-going-to-save-aviation article by Campbell. Yawn. Heard it all before, but nothing ever seems to happen. He does mention one interesting idea, though: an aviation based reality TV show. I'll bet one about an aviation journalist living in Florida would be a big hit!
Click to expand...
Ya mean like, Alaska Wing Men, Flying Wild Alaska, Ice Pilots NWT, Airplane Repo, Dangerous Flights...?
Click to expand...

Well, you know Zoom. Every time he sees a parade, he claps a garbage can on his head, grabs a broomstick, claws his way to the front, and acts like he's the drum major who'd been leading the thing all along.

jm0045 said:
Yeah, I know, but one showcasing Zoom would be fascinating, don't you think?
Click to expand...

A couple of years back, a filmmaker started working with Lance Armstrong to do a documentary on how Lance had triumphed against all the "false accusations." Of course, the final proof came out as the film was being made...and the final documentary was a lot different.

It's an interesting thought, but of course, Zoom wouldn't allow it unless he had total editorial control. Personally, I think that's what killed the EAA book deal a while back...they told him that they would retain editorial control.

Papa Foxtrot said:
Only if the series includes filming his visits to a psychiatrist. And maybe a voiceover by Ron Wanttaja...
Click to expand...

I was once told I had a face that was made for radio. Voice-over should be about the same. :)
PW_Plack said:
The editorial seems to imply ANN is financially unable to launch its new initiatives, then ends with a link to an opportunity for the first 100 takers to pre-order a forthcoming book for $100 each.
Click to expand...
Durn...I was the 101st caller. Guess that means he won't take my C-note.

Kinda wonder if he's looking at a Print-On-Demand setup that needs a minimum of 100 books.

Ron Wanttaja
 
Just spent 2 hours going through this thread and documents....holy crap what a cluster. Suprised gave up the plane before having stuff signed though.
 
Can someone briefly summarize the 45 pages of this thread?
 
Interesting. Campbell sounds like a curious character. It does seem though, Ron, that you have quite an ax to grind against Campbell. I mean between your posts in this forum, the numerous articles here http://www.ousterhout.net/zoom.html etc., seems like you pretty much follow Campbell everywhere.

Also where does "Zoom" come from?

Hoping I will not get reported to the FBI, CIA, NSA, WHPD, etc.
 
frcabot said:
Interesting. Campbell sounds like a curious character. It does seem though, Ron, that you have quite an ax to grind against Campbell. I mean between your posts in this forum, the numerous articles here http://www.ousterhout.net/zoom.html etc., seems like you pretty much follow Campbell everywhere.

Also where does "Zoom" come from?

Hoping I will not get reported to the FBI, CIA, NSA, WHPD, etc.
Click to expand...

See, if you'd been paying attention, you'd KNOW where "Zoom" came from...'cause I posted about it some 800 articles ago. :)

Basically, "Captain Zoom" is a nickname he gave himself ~25 years ago.

Ron Wanttaja
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top