Need ADSB, what will work with Garmin GNS530W

mandm

mandm

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Panel mounted Garmin GNS 530W and no ADSB. What are the best ADSB options out there. Want adsb in and out. The L3 Lynx NGT9000 looks nice but a tad expensive and unsure of install costs. Will all adsb in/out connect to provide traffic and weather to the GNS 530W or do you have to get a Garmin adsb in/out?

Also want to be able to link up with Foreflight but having traffic and weather on the panel is preferred. What’s the most economical way forward?
 
The NGT-9000 will not display weather on a 530, but it does have its own weather display, and can feed weather to your EFB (or multiple devices) via WiFi. If you replace your 530 with an Avidyne in the future it will display the full monte. I got my NGT-9000 installed for $1600. If you look around you can find A&P "dealers" who will do this very cost effectively. 3 years warranty. Warranty service is excellent. I just replaced mine because of a wonky touchscreen.
 
chemgeek said:
The NGT-9000 will not display weather on a 530, but it does have its own weather display, and can feed weather to your EFB (or multiple devices) via WiFi. If you replace your 530 with an Avidyne in the future it will display the full monte. I got my NGT-9000 installed for $1600. If you look around you can find A&P "dealers" who will do this very cost effectively. 3 years warranty. Warranty service is excellent. I just replaced mine because of a wonky touchscreen.
Click to expand...

Would it display traffic? I guess I'm wondering if I just get a more entry-level Lynx system (can't remember if it's their 2000 or 2500) with ADSB in/out if it would display the data (weather + traffic) on the 530W. I really like the Lynx display though!
 
mandm said:
Would it display traffic? I guess I'm wondering if I just get a more entry-level Lynx system (can't remember if it's their 2000 or 2500) with ADSB in/out if it would display the data (weather + traffic) on the 530W. I really like the Lynx display though!
Click to expand...
I have a FreeFlight Rngr ADS-B in interfaced with my Garmin 430W. I never use it and rely strictly on Foreflight displays. To use it, you have to go to a seperate page and it only displays traffic. Not worth it.
 
GDL-88 is seamless and complete.
 
Garmin GTX-335 for ADS-B Out only, or GTX-345 if you want both In and Out, is another option. Don't need the built in WAAS GPS option as they both can take the position source from your 530.

The 345 will display traffic and weather on your 530.

Might be a better option than the GDL-88 if you still have an old cavity tube type of transponder (King KT76, for example).
 
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GRG55 said:
Garmin GTX-335 for ADS-B Out only, or GTX-345 if you want both In and Out, is another option. Don't need the built in WAAS GPS option as they both can take the position source from your 530.

The 345 will display traffic and weather on your 530.

Might be a better option than the GDL-88 if you still have an old cavity tube type of transponder (King KT76, for example).
Click to expand...

Yikes just looked up the GTX-345 is 5k, basically a similar price as the Lynx. I think I would prefer the screen of the Lynx over the Garmin but unsure about the compatibility with the Garmin 530W.
 
From what I've read, Garmin works best with other Garmin. As ChemGeek said, the Lynx will not be able to talk to the 530 W and give it traffic and weather. Assuming you want traffic and weather, displaying it on your 530 W on its moving map has got to be better than a tiny screen on the Lynx transponder.

I scratch my head at the decision made by the owners of the planes I rent that have Garmin 430W's or 650's. Many put in Stratus transponders vs a Garmin, and thus no traffic and weather displayed except on your tablet.
 
Makes sense. So only the GTX345 is an option.
 
mandm said:
Makes sense. So only the GTX345 is an option.
Click to expand...

Everything is an option technically. Depends on your ranking criteria of what's most to least important to you.

If the only thing that is important is to comply with the ADS-B Out mandate at the lowest cost, there's numerous options.
Also partly depends on what you have for a transponder now.
If you have a newer digital transponder like a Garmin 330 you can get the 1090 extended squitter function installed by Garmin and it will satisfy the ADS-B out requirement. If you have a Garmin 327 the GDL-88 might be one of the better ways to meet the ADS-B requirement. If you have an older cavity tube transponder like the King KT76 series I'd probably replace it completely during the ADS-B Out upgrade.

I don't know if the Lynx can take a GPS source signal from an external WAAS navigator, such as the 530. It was designed as a stand alone box, so I think they all come with an internal GPS, which means you have to install another GPS antenna on your plane. Maybe that's not important, maybe it is, to you?
 
mandm said:
Panel mounted Garmin GNS 530W and no ADSB. What are the best ADSB options out there. Want adsb in and out. The L3 Lynx NGT9000 looks nice but a tad expensive and unsure of install costs. Will all adsb in/out connect to provide traffic and weather to the GNS 530W or do you have to get a Garmin adsb in/out?

Also want to be able to link up with Foreflight but having traffic and weather on the panel is preferred. What’s the most economical way forward?
Click to expand...
I did it for around $250. Ads-b in/out linked to a 430w. The Navworx ads600-b can be found in that price range if one has patience and watches forums. It may still be installed under AMOC. It can be hardwired to the 530w.
But, have you seen ads-b on a 530w? It doesn't display on the map screen. One has to change screens to see the traffic. It will only appear as a popup over the map screen when traffic is within a mile or so; this happens typically when in the pattern or close to the field. I find it distracting and annoying. ads-b is better displayed on a tablet in my view.
 
mandm said:
Makes sense. So only the GTX345 is an option.
Click to expand...
It isn't the only option, but it is a very good option. It displays an indication that there is traffic in the area, but it also pushes it to my Ipad where I can get more information (altitude, direction, speed) and zoom in closer.
 
If it doesn't all have to be panel installed....a GTX330ES will get you ADS-B "out" for ~$2,000 plus install and then you could either use a Stratus or Radenna SkyRadar box for the "in" portion on an iPad. That's my setup.
 

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WDD said:
From what I've read, Garmin works best with other Garmin. As ChemGeek said, the Lynx will not be able to talk to the 530 W and give it traffic and weather. Assuming you want traffic and weather, displaying it on your 530 W on its moving map has got to be better than a tiny screen on the Lynx transponder.

I scratch my head at the decision made by the owners of the planes I rent that have Garmin 430W's or 650's. Many put in Stratus transponders vs a Garmin, and thus no traffic and weather displayed except on your tablet.
Click to expand...
For a rental....ADSB out costs:
Stratus...about $600 and can move from airplane to airplane.
GTX 335 $5000 installed.
 
Since you already said you're an iPad person I'd say +1 on tconnecting a GTX330ES.
 
murphey said:
For a rental....ADSB out costs:
Stratus...about $600 and can move from airplane to airplane.
GTX 335 $5000 installed.
Click to expand...
Yes. My point was that if they had put in a Garmin transponder vs a stratus transponder it would connect the transponder to the navigation 650/430/etc. it would have been a simple, permanent solution.

I can indeed get traffic and weather on my tablet by Bluetooth connecting to the stratus transponder. If it was a Garmin transponder I connect via wi fi.

My preference is to have a permanent panel mounted system all taking to each other and showing traffic, weather, etc and not rely on my iPad as the primary display.
 
With a GNS530W, the best option is the GTX 345. It will display traffic on the map page, the default Nav page (EHSI like) or the traffic page, it will display weather on the Map, default Nav page, and on the weather page. It will alert you via audio of traffic if you are not paying attention. The traffic alerting on the system takes into account closing speed including vertical speed. The GNS530W will indicate if you are currently receiving TISB. It will also feed AHRS, traffic, weather, and GPS to ForeFlight. Best yet is to also install a FS210 at the same time and get flight plan transfer to/from the GNS530W/ForeFlight. That is so helpful in syncing flight plans including airways to the GNS530W and easy diversion points around weather or airspace.
 
WDD said:
Yes. My point was that if they had put in a Garmin transponder vs a stratus transponder it would connect the transponder to the navigation 650/430/etc. it would have been a simple, permanent solution.

I can indeed get traffic and weather on my tablet by Bluetooth connecting to the stratus transponder. If it was a Garmin transponder I connect via wi fi.

My preference is to have a permanent panel mounted system all taking to each other and showing traffic, weather, etc and not rely on my iPad as the primary display.
Click to expand...
Your preference on someone else's airplane...except, the different of about $4400 needs LOTS of rental $$$ to make it worthwhile to the owner. Now consider the cost of the 345...About $7000. What's the profit margin on the rental? How long will it take to break even?

The first question - is this a trainer, or something more upscale? If a trainer, it's difficult to justify $7000
 
The solution which offers the greatest level of integration would be to add a GTX 345 to the panel. Not inexpensive, but still the best, arguably, or among the best (inarguably.) If you own Garmin avionics, it should take a pretty compelling value proposition to pull you out of their product ecosystem. Since you already have the "big screen" 530W, why not take advantage of it? In my view the cost of installing the Lynx product isn't significantly less, and what you lose in terms of integration isn't worth what you gain, namely the the slick touchscreen display. Since it isn't compelling, and your total investment outlay is in reasonably the same neck of the woods as the GTX345, I'd go with the latter.

I'm possibly biased, as I have a GTN650 and GTX345 combo, which I think is outstanding. But I fly (okay, "ride in" as a pilot examiner) every combo under the sun on a regular basis. The NGT-9000 is really nice; I like the display and being able to "swipe" to different screens is nifty, though I almost always leave it on the traffic display. But the unavoidable problem is that it doesn't talk to Garmin products. As such I rarely see that device in airplanes with GNS or GTN Navigators. Those operators tend to keep the stack all-Garmin.
 
mandm said:
Would it display traffic? I guess I'm wondering if I just get a more entry-level Lynx system (can't remember if it's their 2000 or 2500) with ADSB in/out if it would display the data (weather + traffic) on the 530W. I really like the Lynx display though!
Click to expand...

Yes, traffic is displayed on my 430W. Bear in mind that the 430/530 series will only display a maximum of 8 targets. It's not often of significance, but the limit is baked into the 430/530 units. Your EFB and the NGT-9000 traffic display does not have this limitation. I find I look at the NGT-9000 display for traffic--as it is a better display and is nicely color coded for threat level. And the ATAS is really nice. When the warning voice comes on, you are REALLY close to a conflict.

For maximum compatibility with the GNS430, you should certainly consider the GTX345. I obtained quotes for both the GTX345 and NGT-9000. The NGT-9000 was significantly less expensive to acquire and install. Plus Lynx is much less picky about who can be a dealer, so it is more likely you can find someone nearby to do the install. The mechanic who was doing my annuals started installing NGT-9000s and he has done a whole bunch of them, so the install price did not include his learning on my nickel. FWIW, it took the nearest Garmin dealer over a month to get back to me. I guess they didn't want my business that much. My mechanic was able to do the NGT-9000 install during my annual inspection. And I swapped out my faulty unit while I waited, about an hour, including re-testing the transponder.

If you go with the NGT-9000, you might want to consider moving it to near the top of your stack, so you can interact with the screen easier. I usually have the NGT-9000 set up with the traffic screen on the left and the weather screen on the right (see image).
ngt-9000-stack.jpg
 
murphey said:
Your preference on someone else's airplane...except, the different of about $4400 needs LOTS of rental $$$ to make it worthwhile to the owner. Now consider the cost of the 345...About $7000. What's the profit margin on the rental? How long will it take to break even?

The first question - is this a trainer, or something more upscale? If a trainer, it's difficult to justify $7000
Click to expand...

Well yes it is my preference. The point of making the post is to offer my preference / POV to the OP for him/ her to consider.

As far as how much the owner has to invest, it’s going to be something. The real consideration isn’t $7000 for a 345 installed but rather the difference between the cost of the 345 vs whatever else (stratus transponder for example).
 
I have the GNS530W/GDL-88 combo. Frankly, the NEXRAD weather on the GNS530W is not anywhere near as good as what you see on an Ipad with FF or Garmin Pilot. Therefore, I would suggest not limiting yourself to solutions that put the weather on the GNS530W. However, if that is what you want, then I think the only options are the GDL-88 and the GTX-345. The GDL-88 is cheaper but lacks changable Flight ID (helpful if you do flights with different call signs, e.g., Angel Flight), won't supply WX or TX to the G3X Touch, and requires you to keep your current transponder. If you choose either of the Garmins, like others I recommend the FlightStream 210 (I have one), which enables you to transfer flight plans from FF or Garmin Pilot to the GNS530W. This makes IFR flying where you have complicated routes MUCH easier. The GTX-345, like the FS210, has ASDB-out WX, TX and ADHRS to the FF or Garmin Pilot, but does NOT have the FF/Garmin Pilot flight plan TO the GNS530W feature.
 
Debated about hijacking this thread vs starting another one, but I am in a very similar situation to the OP.

I have a GNS-530W and a GNS-430 (non-WAAS) in the Aztec, and am also contemplating ADS-B options.
I currently use Foreflight with a little FF "Scout" ADS-B In receiver.
Current transponder is a well used King KT76A.

Big picture plan: Rework the center stack including a) removing the inop King ADF, b) install a new audio panel with integral 6-place intercom (leaning to the PS Engineering 450B), c) install the long overdue Flightstream 210, d) install a (currently undefined) ADS-B solution.

Preferences:
  • No motivation at this time to replace the GNS 530/430 boxes with either a GTN 650/750 or Avidyne. Not enough incremental functionality over the GNS capability for the flying I do to justify the cost at this point in time - if one of them quits I'll probably look at the Avidyne option at that time. The FS-210 will eliminate a lot of the knob twisting.
  • Considered the GDL-88 but don't really want to spend that money and then have the aging KT76A transponder quit and have to replace it. So a replacement transponder seems almost inevitable. When I pull out the King transponder I can use it to spare the same model that is in the Husky as I don't need or intend to install ADS-B in that plane.
  • Prefer not to have an ADS-B solution that has its own WAAS GPS if it requires another GPS antenna on the plane - I already have two GPS antennas, prefer to avoid adding a third and would like to use the 530W as the position source instead.
  • Not fussed if traffic and weather not available on the 430 or 530 screens. I tend to have the default nav page up on the 530 most of the time in the air. Screen resolution isn't comparable to the iPad for that sort of stuff imo.
  • Must have the ADS-B traffic and weather on the iPad, the way I have now with the FF Scout receiver.
  • Barring a failure of one of the GNS boxes this is likely to be the last significant center stack investment the Aztec will receive while I am the owner of the plane (figure 10 more years), so I am going to spend more than the absolute minimum needed to comply with ADS-B Out only.
Have been leaning to the GTX 335 or GTX 345 solution. The desire not to add another GPS antenna seems to be forcing me in the direction of Garmin.

What would you folks do?

chemgeek said:
Yes, traffic is displayed on my 430W. Bear in mind that the 430/530 series will only display a maximum of 8 targets. It's not often of significance, but the limit is baked into the 430/530 units. Your EFB and the NGT-9000 traffic display does not have this limitation. I find I look at the NGT-9000 display for traffic--as it is a better display and is nicely color coded for threat level. And the ATAS is really nice. When the warning voice comes on, you are REALLY close to a conflict.

For maximum compatibility with the GNS430, you should certainly consider the GTX345. I obtained quotes for both the GTX345 and NGT-9000. The NGT-9000 was significantly less expensive to acquire and install. Plus Lynx is much less picky about who can be a dealer, so it is more likely you can find someone nearby to do the install. The mechanic who was doing my annuals started installing NGT-9000s and he has done a whole bunch of them, so the install price did not include his learning on my nickel. FWIW, it took the nearest Garmin dealer over a month to get back to me. I guess they didn't want my business that much. My mechanic was able to do the NGT-9000 install during my annual inspection. And I swapped out my faulty unit while I waited, about an hour, including re-testing the transponder.

If you go with the NGT-9000, you might want to consider moving it to near the top of your stack, so you can interact with the screen easier. I usually have the NGT-9000 set up with the traffic screen on the left and the weather screen on the right (see image).
Click to expand...

Do I understand you have an NGT-9000 that "talks" to your 430W and displays the ADS-B traffic (closest 8 targets) on that screen as well as the touchscreen on the Lynx?
 
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DA40FAN said:
I have the GNS530W/GDL-88 combo. Frankly, the NEXRAD weather on the GNS530W is not anywhere near as good as what you see on an Ipad with FF or Garmin Pilot. Therefore, I would suggest not limiting yourself to solutions that put the weather on the GNS530W. However, if that is what you want, then I think the only options are the GDL-88 and the GTX-345. The GDL-88 is cheaper but lacks changable Flight ID (helpful if you do flights with different call signs, e.g., Angel Flight), won't supply WX or TX to the G3X Touch, and requires you to keep your current transponder. If you choose either of the Garmins, like others I recommend the FlightStream 210 (I have one), which enables you to transfer flight plans from FF or Garmin Pilot to the GNS530W. This makes IFR flying where you have complicated routes MUCH easier. The GTX-345, like the FS210, has ASDB-out WX, TX and ADHRS to the FF or Garmin Pilot, but does NOT have the FF/Garmin Pilot flight plan TO the GNS530W feature.
Click to expand...

I have the GDL88 installed in my Bonanza. It is usually a wash when comparing with the cost of an installed GTX345 because the former takes much more work to install and is often needed to be installed in the aft empennage. It requires an extra antenna and in my case, the interior had to be removed so that the cables could be routed to the panel. With my GTN750, I can control the Flight ID. Although the GNS430W/530W does not have that capability, I had a GTX330 (not ES) already installed and it could be used in my original setup with a GNS530W to enter the Flight ID.
 
WDD said:
Well yes it is my preference. The point of making the post is to offer my preference / POV to the OP for him/ her to consider.

As far as how much the owner has to invest, it’s going to be something. The real consideration isn’t $7000 for a 345 installed but rather the difference between the cost of the 345 vs whatever else (stratus transponder for example).
Click to expand...
Like I said....$7000 for the 345 or $600 for the Stratus. If it's my cherokee on the rental line, it's probably going to be used as a trainer, and I'm not going to spend $7000 for it to be beat up by beginners. The ROI is just not there. On the other hand, Cirri are going for $250/hr and up around here, so it might be financially viable but it depends on the hourly expenses.

The solution, of course, is for you to buy and airplane and trick it out with the avionics you want.
 
murphey said:
For a rental....ADSB out costs:
Stratus...about $600 and can move from airplane to airplane.
GTX 335 $5000 installed.
Click to expand...

murphey said:
Like I said....$7000 for the 345 or $600 for the Stratus. If it's my cherokee on the rental line, it's probably going to be used as a trainer, and I'm not going to spend $7000 for it to be beat up by beginners. The ROI is just not there. On the other hand, Cirri are going for $250/hr and up around here, so it might be financially viable but it depends on the hourly expenses.

The solution, of course, is for you to buy and airplane and trick it out with the avionics you want.
Click to expand...

I am not aware of any $600 portable solution that can be moved from plane to plane that meets the certification requirements for ADS-B Out. My understanding is the installation for Out has to be a "permanent" installation in the airplane and you can't just pick it up and move it to another rental airplane.
 
GRG55 said:
I am not aware of any $600 portable solution that can be moved from plane to plane that meets the certification requirements for ADS-B Out. My understanding is the installation for Out has to be a "permanent" installation in the airplane and you can't just pick it up and move it to another rental airplane.
Click to expand...
My bad....the Stratus is IN, and portable.

I meant the Uavionix for out, is $2000 and perhaps an hour of installation. And the Stratus for In. Less than $3000 compared to more than $7000 is still a big chunk for a rental trainer.
 
murphey said:
I meant the Uavionix for out, is $2000 and perhaps an hour of installation. And the Stratus for In. Less than $3000 compared to more than $7000 is still a big chunk for a rental trainer.
Click to expand...
Plus how much to replace the ancient transponder that dies the month after you install the Uavionix?

Apples to Apples.
 
GRG55 said:
Do I understand you have an NGT-9000 that "talks" to your 430W and displays the ADS-B traffic (closest 8 targets) on that screen as well as the touchscreen on the Lynx?
Click to expand...

Correct. I see near traffic targets on the GNS-430 as well as on the NGT-9000. The Lynx display is much more usable. The resolution of the GNS-430 screen is just too limited for useful display of multiple information. Different answer for a higher res GNS or IFD unit. Weather and traffic display on my EFB is fantastic. And with the included WiFi module, you can connect more than one device to the Lynx. My wife and copilot usually has my phone connected with a copy of the EFB software as well as my tablet.
 
I didn’t see where the op was talking about his rental plane.

In any case - I, you, and we all are just offering opinions. You don’t like the GTX 345 - OK. You want a sky beacon? No problem.

IMHO even on a rental setting it up tight in the first place is the way to go. Penny wise pound foolish or some folksy saying like that. No real wrong or right way.

Hope we all are giving the OP some good options.
 
mandm said:
Panel mounted Garmin GNS 530W and no ADSB. What are the best ADSB options out there. Want adsb in and out. The L3 Lynx NGT9000 looks nice but a tad expensive and unsure of install costs. Will all adsb in/out connect to provide traffic and weather to the GNS 530W or do you have to get a Garmin adsb in/out?

Also want to be able to link up with Foreflight but having traffic and weather on the panel is preferred. What’s the most economical way forward?
Click to expand...
I've got a GNS 430W got a Garmin 345, very pleased with the interface and information displayed on the 430.
 
John Collins said:
I went through all of the OP posts from mandm and can't find one that deals with rentals. Can you please point to which post from mandm that says he is asking about a rental aircraft?
Click to expand...
aarrtgggghhhhh. wrong thread.
 
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