Necrotized Pancreas

C

captainChris

Guest
I was diagnosed with necrotized pancreas, in which the doctors stated it’s alcohol induced. I quit drinking nearly 7 months ago, and would rate my alcohol useable as “moderate”- nothing that would cause my pancreas to fail. Is this a grounding disease per the FARS?
 
I would think so, at least until you’ve recovered. Or do you mean permanently?

Yes, I would think “moderate” alcohol consumption over time could do this. Are you concerned about the alcohol use implications? I would think right now your bigger problem is getting better. Good luck!
 
And you base your opinion on your alcohol use not being enough to cause medical issues on what? Do you have a medical degree?
 
Shall I tell him like it is-- so he can go to SGOTI, apply and be denied?

Sigh. There are a couple of guys here who really have reality testing deficits. I'll wait if the antiauth. types leave this alone and let Lindbergh advise you in the interim.
 
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captainChris said:
I was diagnosed with necrotized pancreas, in which the doctors stated it’s alcohol induced. I quit drinking nearly 7 months ago, and would rate my alcohol useable as “moderate”- nothing that would cause my pancreas to fail. Is this a grounding disease per the FARS?
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Moderate drinking is 2 or less drinks per day.
 
captainChris said:
I was diagnosed with necrotized pancreas, in which the doctors stated it’s alcohol induced. I quit drinking nearly 7 months ago, and would rate my alcohol useable as “moderate”- nothing that would cause my pancreas to fail. Is this a grounding disease per the FARS?
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You drank to physical harm. Yup. abuse is defined, by the current Federal Psychiatrist Dr. Chesanow, as "use of alcohol in a manner to create a danger". If you drank to pancreatitis you meet that defintion. Now see the 15 grounding medical conditions:

Disqualifying Conditions (pg 454 of the current AME guide).

The AME must deny or defer if the applicant has a history of: (1) Diabetes mellitus requiring hypoglycemic medication; (2) Angina pectoris; (3) Coronary heart disease (CHD) that has been treated or, if untreated, that has been symptomatic or clinically significant; (4) Myocardial infarction; (5) Cardiac valve replacement; (6) Permanent cardiac pacemaker; (7) Heart replacement; (8) Psychosis; (9) Bipolar disorder; (10) Personality disorder that is severe enough to have repeatedly manifested itself by overt acts; (11) Substance dependence; (12) Substance abuse; (13) Epilepsy; (14) Disturbance of consciousness and without satisfactory explanation of cause, and (15) Transient loss of control of nervous system function(s) without satisfactory explanation of cause.
 
bbchien said:
You drank to physical harm. Yup. abuse is defined, by the current Federal Psychiatrist Dr. Chesanow, as "use of alcohol in a manner to create a danger". If you drank to pancreatitis you meet that defintion. Now see the 15 grounding medical conditions:



Disqualifying Conditions (pg 454 of the current AME guide).

The AME must deny or defer if the applicant has a history of: (1) Diabetes mellitus requiring hypoglycemic medication; (2) Angina pectoris; (3) Coronary heart disease (CHD) that has been treated or, if untreated, that has been symptomatic or clinically significant; (4) Myocardial infarction; (5) Cardiac valve replacement; (6) Permanent cardiac pacemaker; (7) Heart replacement; (8) Psychosis; (9) Bipolar disorder; (10) Personality disorder that is severe enough to have repeatedly manifested itself by overt acts; (11) Substance dependence; (12) Substance abuse; (13) Epilepsy; (14) Disturbance of consciousness and without satisfactory explanation of cause, and (15) Transient loss of control of nervous system function(s) without satisfactory explanation of cause.
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Did the guy who got stabbed drink in a manner that created danger?
 
He abetted the danger for sure. By the federal psychiatrist's definition the only place you can drink blamelessly is in your home.
 
Keithlewis1900 said:
Did the guy who got stabbed drink in a manner that created danger?
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Here we go with cherry picking the facts. In that thread the issue was the airman functioning in public with a BAC exhibiting tolerance. The FAA doesn't care that he got stabbed. Stabbing wasn't the issue. They care that he had a confirmed blood alcohol test of .163 in the ER which is proof of tolerance. He could be sitting on his couch drinking and a meteor could smash through his roof knocking him out. If he ends up in the ER and they run a BAC and it demonstrates tolerance he'll have questions to answer.

More pertinent to this thread... If an airman ends up in the ER with pancreatitis and there's no other explanation other than alcohol they have a problem. Pancreatitis is your pancreas effectively digesting itself and the 2 most common causes are gall stones and alcohol dependence/abuse. Usually necrosis is a result of repeated bouts of acute pancreatitis or severe one off instances. Parts of your pancreas are dead and they're not coming back. Pancreatitis and pancreatic necrosis is no joke, it's deadly and it's one of the red flags AMEs /"real doctors" look for to diagnose substance abuse/dependence.

Anyone that has experienced a bout of acute pancreatitis is much more likely to experience further acute pancreatitis episodes (eventually leading to chronic pancreatitis/necrosis). For these people alcohol is off limits lest they decide the want to tempt fate.
 
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ThatOtherGuy said:
Here we go with cherry picking the facts. In that thread the issue was the airman functioning in public with a BAC exhibiting tolerance. The FAA doesn't care that he got stabbed. Stabbing wasn't the issue. They care that he had a confirmed blood alcohol test of .163 in the ER which is proof of tolerance. He could be sitting on his couch drinking and a meteor could smash through his roof knocking him out. If he ends up in the ER and they run a BAC and it demonstrates tolerance he'll have questions to answer.

More pertinent to this thread... If an airman ends up in the ER with pancreatitis and there's no other explanation other than alcohol they have a problem. Pancreatitis is your pancreas effectively digesting itself and the 2 most common causes are gall stones and alcohol dependence/abuse. Usually necrosis is a result of repeated bouts of acute pancreatitis or severe one off instances. Parts of your pancreas are dead and they're not coming back. Pancreatitis and pancreatic necrosis is no joke, it's deadly and it's one of the red flags AMEs /"real doctors" look for to diagnose substance abuse/dependence.

Anyone that has experienced a bout of acute pancreatitis is much more likely to experience further acute pancreatitis episodes (eventually leading to chronic pancreatitis/necrosis). For these people alcohol is off limits lest they decide the want to tempt fate.
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bruce just stated y can drink at your home blamelessly. Let’s say you end up in the ER with a .163 because someone broke into your home and stabbed you?
 
Keithlewis1900 said:
bruce just stated y can drink at your home blamelessly. Let’s say you end up in the ER with a .163 because someone broke into your home and stabbed you?
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Not to speak for Bruce but I’m sure he doesn’t mean you are free to be a raging alcoholic so long as you stay at home all the time and never have any legal consequences. He means from a certification standpoint there will be nothing in your history to get you denied. But if you stay home safely drinking yourself into cognitive problems, functional deficits, and organ failure, it’ll catch up to you one way or the other.
 
Keithlewis1900 said:
bruce just stated y can drink at your home blamelessly. Let’s say you end up in the ER with a .163 because someone broke into your home and stabbed you?
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You'd be fine if they snapped the top off a Jack Daniel's bottle and stabbed you with that. High BAC by means of involuntary injection is acceptable.
 
Keithlewis1900 said:
bruce just stated y can drink at your home blamelessly. Let’s say you end up in the ER with a .163 because someone broke into your home and stabbed you?
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Sigh. Are you TRYING to get this thread locked?

Is your question germane to the OP? Does it add useful info to our flying?

C’mon. Celebrate the peace of the season…
 
The problem for the OP will be that the Dr has it listed as alcohol-induced. Whether that is a misdiagnosis or not is irrelevant at this stage. "The bell has been rung" as they say. I have seen it rung for MUCH less. I hope you like jumping and hoops because that is the only way forward.
 
Well, in the absence of a gallstone, autoimmune deficiency, trauma to the pancreas, or a tumor, the only choices left are genetics or alcohol. Since the OP drank enough to categorize it as quitting, alcohol is probably correct.
 
1st 2nd and 3rd cause of pancreatitis is typically alcohol. Other causes are infrequent and sans autoimmune easy to dx. Necrotizing pancreatitis is a bit more serious then run of the mill pancreatitis. Should be a pretty serious “shot across the bow” that if the offending agent is not removed immediately, it’ll kill ya. If one feels the drinking alone is not ground-able in one’s mind then the reason for it might be somewhere on that list if you delve into it.
 
Sadly, the OP is in a serious state of denial. You don’t end up with such a malady from casual alcohol usage.
 
Rushie said:
Not to speak for Bruce but I’m sure he doesn’t mean you are free to be a raging alcoholic so long as you stay at home all the time and never have any legal consequences. He means from a certification standpoint there will be nothing in your history to get you denied. But if you stay home safely drinking yourself into cognitive problems, functional deficits, and organ failure, it’ll catch up to you one way or the other.
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THIS! And yes he is in a state of denial- personal and if he applies, federally.
Needs Full rehab (whcih is educative), weekly grouip aftgercare, an extended period of proven sobriety, continuous peer support (Logged AA), and then the high dollar evaluations abnd he might win a speical issuance.
 
bbchien said:
You drank to physical harm. Yup. abuse is defined, by the current Federal Psychiatrist Dr. Chesanow, as "use of alcohol in a manner to create a danger". If you drank to pancreatitis you meet that defintion. Now see the 15 grounding medical conditions:

Disqualifying Conditions (pg 454 of the current AME guide).

The AME must deny or defer if the applicant has a history of: (1) Diabetes mellitus requiring hypoglycemic medication; (2) Angina pectoris; (3) Coronary heart disease (CHD) that has been treated or, if untreated, that has been symptomatic or clinically significant; (4) Myocardial infarction; (5) Cardiac valve replacement; (6) Permanent cardiac pacemaker; (7) Heart replacement; (8) Psychosis; (9) Bipolar disorder; (10) Personality disorder that is severe enough to have repeatedly manifested itself by overt acts; (11) Substance dependence; (12) Substance abuse; (13) Epilepsy; (14) Disturbance of consciousness and without satisfactory explanation of cause, and (15) Transient loss of control of nervous system function(s) without satisfactory explanation of cause.
Click to expand...

Before you become too judgmental, people who have never drank a day in their lives can have this condition.
 
Clip4 said:
Before you become too judgmental, people who have never drank a day in their lives can have this condition.
Click to expand...


True, but in this case,....

captainChris said:
I was diagnosed with necrotized pancreas, in which the doctors stated it’s alcohol induced
Click to expand...

This was the judgement of his own docs, so I don’t think anyone is becoming “too judgmental.”
 
Half Fast said:
True, but in this case,....



This was the judgement of his own docs, so I don’t think anyone is becoming “too judgmental.”
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Doctors have been wrong with both diagnosis and what they think causes conditions.

Yes, he ,Amy have drank a lot, but his drinking may not have been the cause of his condition.
 
Sometimes I wonder why people come to the PoA lamp post with these kinds of questions: for support or illumination?

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Clip4 said:
Before you become too judgmental, people who have never drank a day in their lives can have this condition.
Click to expand...
Yes doctor. But did you know that 96% of all pancreatides for which we are able to know the causation, are alcohol in origin....so the uphill burden of proof does fall against your man.

...and the local experts (by the OP’s telling of the tale) apparently did not find alternate cause.....

.....and I have numerous HIMS pilots who reported moderate drinking, but their bar tab was actually compatible with four times that. It seems that the beauty of alcohol is that it changes the perception of moderate......
 
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Before the thread gets drifted too far, below is a link to the FAA's guidance (not my opinion) to AMEs on pancreatitis. Note that the alcohol-related cause will have to be investigated and dealt with to obtain a medical certificate. This doesn't directly address the OP's question though, which is whether he's grounded. The answer to that depends on whether the OP is engaging in operations requiring a medical certificate. If so, then in FAR 61.53(a)(1) provides that no person may act as PIC in such an operation while he "[k]nows or has reason to know of any medical condition that would make the person unable to meet the requirements for the medical certificate necessary for the pilot operation . . . ."

However, if the operation does not require a medical certificate, the standard is whether the condition makes him unable to safely operate the aircraft.


https://www.faa.gov/about/office_or...m/ame/guide/media/PancreatitisDisposition.pdf
 
Lindberg said:
This doesn't directly address the OP's question though, which is whether he's grounded.
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Technically, he asked if it’s a grounding disease in general, not if he in particular is grounded:
captainChris said:
Is this a grounding disease per the FARS?
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Lindberg said:
If so, then in FAR 61.53(a)(1) provides that no person may act as PIC in such an operation while he "[k]nows or has reason to know of any medical condition that would make the person unable to meet the requirements for the medical certificate necessary for the pilot operation . . . ."
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Given what you quote here and given, per the AME guidance you linked, that only gallstone pancreatitis, after one month of recovery, and in which alcoholic pancreatitis has been RULED OUT (in bold in the guidance you cited), among other things, is the only history of pancreatitis which can be issued a medical without deferral and further evaluation, can we agree his question is answered as yes, it’s grounding, since alcoholic pancreatitis has not been ruled out?
 
Palmpilot said:
It always blows my mind that imaginary numbers can be used to represent real events.
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They're imaginary in name only! If we instead call them "Eye-Axis" then they're not "imaginary" and our sense of reality continuity can be indulged!

Paul, former math major mode
 
My cousin recently passed from pancreatic cancer. He was a drinker. It wasn’t a great way to go out.
 
s35pilot said:
My cousin recently passed from pancreatic cancer. He was a drinker. It wasn’t a great way to go out.
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The CEO of the company I work with died from pancreatic cancer. He wasn’t much of a drinker. No, it’s not a pleasant way to go. I knew a young woman who got pancreatitis caused by gallstones. She recovered but was hospitalized quite a while and was very sick. The pancreas is not a nice organ to have trouble with. Very painful.
 
In case there's any confusion, pancreatitis and pancreatic cancer are totally different things.
 
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