Near-Fatal Spin on First Solo

Terrifying! But, I am sure you are a better pilot for it! There have been a number of folks who have pointed out that your first solo plan was a bit off. Mine was a victory lap around the pattern, which turned out to be one of the LONGEST upwind and downwind legs of a patter of my life. (Arriving parallel jet traffic, and a tower controller who knew it was my first time up solo... savor may have been a part of her call).

Take a little time, but make sure you get back in it at some point. First, perhaps a familiarization flight, and back at it.

OR, you could attack it with fire, and go for some aerobatic training...

Regardless, best of luck!!
 
flyingcheesehead said:
Sadly, this is all too often the case because flight instructors are simply trying to build time to get their airline job and ground time doesn't get them any closer while soaking the student by trying to teach them everything in flight does.
Click to expand...
To be fair, I think one must consider that for many students there is a strong desire to get in the plane and fly rather than spend time on the ground with an instructor and/or reading material. IOW, even a CFI that wasn't motivated by the need for PIC time might lean towards more in-air training than optimal simply because this is what they perceive the student wants.

I know a lot of CFIs complain that the majority of their students are generally ill prepared for each lesson even though the students are given reading assignments prior to each lesson. Granted the CFI could still sit the student down at a table and cover the skipped material before flying but even then chances are the student may be distracted by the lure of getting back up in the sky and therefore fail to benefit from the ground instruction. I also know that some students tend to feel that ground instruction time should be free or at least lower cost than the regular rate (of course they likely fail to realize that from the CFI / propilot wannabe's perspective the lack of loggable hours does mean "less pay" to them).
 
bflynn said:
Isn't that missing an S in the front? For Scream...or something else?
Click to expand...

Like when I was face to face with the engine quit checklist on my 1st cross country the day after I got my PPL.

Step 0 is - reach out to the above the panel to grab your jumping heart and put it back in your chest. :rolleyes:

I ran a tank dry.
 
Last edited:
Great book to read, " spitfire"! By jeffery Quirk.....or Quill.
Head test pilot for the spitfire before and during ww2.( he also flew combat for a time) He flewThe majority manufactured, and allowed as how that in order to maintain proficiency he did a full acrobatic series in each one prior to delivery. Stalls spins loops, barrel rolls, you name it. Also had a few quit on him but forced landed with little damage.
 
Last edited:
PrivatePassenger said:
I went straight back to the airport and have been terrified to get back in the cockpit since. The feeling of that wing dropping out from under me will forever be associated with an intense visceral terror that I felt during those moments.
Click to expand...

You've made it through your first storm, it is unlikely that a stall/spin will ever freak you out again. Get your instructor, or perhaps a new instructor, and go back up and review spins with him or her.

You're lucky, you learned it early on, spins are survivable.

-John
 
PrivatePassenger, don't give up flying for this incident. The exact same thing happened to me while I was learning to fly. My instructor had never mentioned the word Spin to me. But like you, I happened upon reading a book about spin recovery and that reading saved my life. After I managed to recover and climb back to a safe altitude my knees were shaking so violently I had a hard time keeping my feet on the rudder pedals and I knew if I flew directly back to the airport to land that I would most likely never get into a small airplane again. So I diverted myself to practice turns about a pylon ground reference maneuvers to regain my composure and stay calm and carry on. On the very next day I went up with my instructor and we dedicated a day to doing spins and recovery techniques. You will be able to regain your confidence too. Just go up with another instructor and tell him/her what you have experienced.
I am not an instructor but I have since been an advocate of the teaching actual spin recovery to students prior to letting them go solo. I consider that I went from solo student pilot to test pilot for the duration of my first spin recovery and that is not a good thing for any young [I was only 17 years old at the time] student pilot. You have already proven that you can keep your head straight during an emergency situation so you have what it takes to carry on with your flight training! Good luck to you!
 
I had read this thread back in April. I am supposed to solo tomorrow (first), three hops around the pattern. Rereading this has rekindled my fear of spinning. I am not really scared to solo tomorrow, I am scared to go out and do power-on stalls. I am training in a PA28 that isn't approved for spins or I would have my instructor take me out and we would spin the hell out of it. We do have a 172 on the field. How well would that translate? As someone earlier in the thread said, is it legal to enter the insipient phase? Obviously I would prefer to learn in what I am flying, but I want to stay alive too.
 
denverpilot said:
The really simple solution is to simply teach spins. Sigh. Worked for me. :shrug:
Click to expand...

I'm a big advocate for spin training, it got me into aerobatics.

I was required learn spins and recoveries as part of my training and checkride (in Canada). I was always apprehensive about them, and didn't want to fly anywhere near a stall, just in case I entered a spin.

Finally, I had had enough, and I signed up for two-three lessons in aerobatics in a 152 Aerobat. I reasoned that I either had to get past my apprehension, or give up flying.

Nervous as hell, I went through my first lesson, came down feeling okay. Second lesson, not nervous but certainly paying attention. Third lesson, a pencil got loose during a loop, and it was floating around the cabin, both the instructor and I were trying to grab it out of the air while floating over the top of the loop.

At the end of the third lesson, we did some spins--they were a total non-event. The instructor knew that I flew a 172 on a regular basis, he told me about some of the characteristics of a 172 in a loop (not that he ever did one in a 172:no:).

I went out later that week in the 172 and did spins, I had never done them in a 172 before. Turns out a spin entry (when you're trying) in a 172 requires a small burst of power just before you push the pedal, in order to get that baby to spin.

Spin recovery was pretty immediate, after one turn. Not so immediate after more than one turn.:eek:

Being familiar with how your airplane feels/reacts during unusual situations is lifesaving. It helps me with keeping the initial panic down when confronted a situation (e.g. I've been here before ;))
 
mikeinbama said:
I had read this thread back in April. I am supposed to solo tomorrow (first), three hops around the pattern. Rereading this has rekindled my fear of spinning. I am not really scared to solo tomorrow, I am scared to go out and do power-on stalls. I am training in a PA28 that isn't approved for spins or I would have my instructor take me out and we would spin the hell out of it. We do have a 172 on the field. How well would that translate? As someone earlier in the thread said, is it legal to enter the insipient phase? Obviously I would prefer to learn in what I am flying, but I want to stay alive too.
Click to expand...

Rather than flirting with incipient spins in an aircraft not approved, the falling leaf referenced above will do what you really want - train your feet to keep the wings level and avoid falling into the spin. You get a lot of learning in a short period of time. After a while you won't even have to think about what to do.
 
This is EXACTLY the reason I criticize those that brag about early solo, and worse, think the quicker you solo the better the pilot. ITS A GIANT MISTAKE.

This is not about getting spin training. This is about a lack of overall training. And this guy got lucky. Learning and FEELING the dynamics of lift and stall are critical of course. Suppose this guy was on base to final? He would be dead...
 
mikeinbama said:
I had read this thread back in April. I am supposed to solo tomorrow (first), three hops around the pattern. Rereading this has rekindled my fear of spinning. I am not really scared to solo tomorrow, I am scared to go out and do power-on stalls. I am training in a PA28 that isn't approved for spins or I would have my instructor take me out and we would spin the hell out of it. We do have a 172 on the field. How well would that translate? As someone earlier in the thread said, is it legal to enter the insipient phase? Obviously I would prefer to learn in what I am flying, but I want to stay alive too.
Click to expand...

The worst part of spins is the sensation and sight picture.
In a pa-28, even if you drop a wing, if you relax the pro-spin controls you will not enter a spin. If you are really nervous, load the 172 in the utility category and practice spins with your cfi. Just know that cessnas break into a stall more abruptly than a Cherokee.
 
I've never dipped a wing in a PA28, though I've done plenty of stalls (and I take them to the break, wimpy as they are on that airframe). Do they even do that?

I've certainly dipped wings on Cessnas. Did a really good one in a 172 on my flight review, over the top (slipping stall).

The falling leaf really is a good exercise. So is trying to fold a chart with both hands. That one's also a good trim exercise.
 
MAKG1 said:
So is trying to fold a chart with both hands. That one's also a good trim exercise.
Click to expand...

I laughed out loud when I read this. On my first XC flight to Niagara Falls after getting my ticket I wrestled with this very same thing in some mild bumps. :yes:
 
I've almost spun an airplane on accident. I was familiarizing myself with it and quickly found out that there is no stall buffet. It just breaks...

You can't be scared. You just fly the plane and think about it later.

Go up with an instructor for a basic flight to get you warmed up again.
 
mikeinbama said:
I had read this thread back in April. I am supposed to solo tomorrow (first), three hops around the pattern. Rereading this has rekindled my fear of spinning. I am not really scared to solo tomorrow, I am scared to go out and do power-on stalls. I am training in a PA28 that isn't approved for spins or I would have my instructor take me out and we would spin the hell out of it. We do have a 172 on the field. How well would that translate? As someone earlier in the thread said, is it legal to enter the insipient phase? Obviously I would prefer to learn in what I am flying, but I want to stay alive too.
Click to expand...

The Cessna 152 I trained in had a helpful placard for such cases:
136141_28596210-iphone5a_l.jpg


Oops, wrong placard. That one works so long as one follows this one:

2064118441_d2350abe26_z.jpg
 
If you're in a 172 entering into a spin or in the early stages, simply retarding the power to idle, removing all rudder input, and releasing back pressure on the yoke will cause the spin to stop pretty quickly. You'll still likely be in a dive (and possibly a spiral dive). Roll the wings level with the closest horizon to redirect the lift vector and gently pull up into straight and level flight.

Now this isn't "proper" technique, but when you can't seem to remember PARE (thank you, Rich Stowell), just kill the power and momentarily let go of the controls. In stable airplanes like most trainers it will work.
 
MAKG1 said:
A towel is an airworthiness item in that aircraft? That sucks.
Click to expand...
Oh, no. Any reminder to carry your towel is a gem.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Towel_Day#Origin
A towel, [The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy] says, is about the most massively useful thing an interstellar hitchhiker can have. Partly it has great practical value. You can wrap it around you for warmth as you bound across the cold moons of Jaglan Beta; you can lie on it on the brilliant marble-sanded beaches of Santraginus V, inhaling the heady sea vapours; you can sleep under it beneath the stars which shine so redly on the desert world of Kakrafoon; use it to sail a miniraft down the slow heavy River Moth; wet it for use in hand-to-hand-combat; wrap it round your head to ward off noxious fumes or avoid the gaze of the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal (such a mind-bogglingly stupid animal, it assumes that if you can't see it, it can't see you); you can wave your towel in emergencies as a distress signal, and of course dry yourself off with it if it still seems to be clean enough.

More importantly, a towel has immense psychological value. For some reason, if a strag (strag: non-hitch hiker) discovers that a hitchhiker has his towel with him, he will automatically assume that he is also in possession of a toothbrush, face flannel, soap, tin of biscuits, flask, compass, map, ball of string, gnat spray, wet weather gear, space suit etc., etc. Furthermore, the strag will then happily lend the hitch hiker any of these or a dozen other items that the hitch hiker might accidentally have "lost." What the strag will think is that any man who can hitch the length and breadth of the galaxy, rough it, slum it, struggle against terrible odds, win through, and still knows where his towel is, is clearly a man to be reckoned with.
Click to expand...
 
somorris said:
You obviously feel fortunate to still be here! Don't give up on flying, though. Rather than tell you to get another CFI as everybody else is doing, I suggest you discuss this with your CFI. You need to work on those same maneuvers, only this time with him/her in the airplane with you. He/she needs to learn a lesson here as well.
Click to expand...

A very good point. I'd definitely discuss this with your instructor to avoid them leading another student down a similar path.
 
Don't worry, next time you break into a spin won't be near as scary, it's the first time it happens that's the shocker. My CFI let me do it on the second flight, not holding enough rudder on a departure stall and the wing tucked and around we went and recovered and discussed spins. Did a few more, figured out a 152 loses 300' a single turn to recover. Spins were never an issue after that.
 
Wow.... I thought my first solo experience was rough. We did the full flight plan, weather brief, etc and it was a perfect day with nothing in the forecast. Went to a towered airport, winds calm, I did three trips in the pattern with my CFI and then he hopped out and I started my three.

In a period of 10-15 minutes the winds started picking up, and they didnt stop. Second landing I was at an almost perfect 45 degree crab to maintain flight track over the center line. Tower asked if I wanted to go again, I said "NO... I needed to taxi back to my instructor, I was calling it because of winds". Tower said "Probably a good call, winds are 15 gusting 20".

CFI said he was waiting to see if I made that call or started taxiing for another before he stopped and he was happier I made that call than that the landings were successful. On the way back it got bumpy enough that he said at current conditions he wouldnt go flying.

For me though, it had a bit of a setback effect. For a few months after i would start sweating, get nervous, and I had trouble with landings. I could land, I just wouldnt feel comfortable and I was nervous enough that it reflected in my form.

Moral? I kept pushing. Continued flying. A week later I did some landings at a grass strip then kicked my instructor out to do some more on my own. Those were perfect. Did some nice ones on the hard top short field, and that was the slow beginning to breaking the self/wind-inflicted plateau.

My palms sweat a whole lot less when I go flying now.

As a side note, I have no idea why you would practice stalls on your first solo. I thought doing that kind of stuff on your own was best left for the end of your training when you're flying solo a lot and prepping for a check ride. I can understand you never wanting to go back. I sure didnt. Maybe consider finding someone else as an instructor. Tell them about it what happened and let them work you through it
 
gitmo234 said:
Wow.... I thought my first solo experience was rough. We did the full flight plan, weather brief, etc and it was a perfect day with nothing in the forecast. Went to a towered airport, winds calm, I did three trips in the pattern with my CFI and then he hopped out and I started my three.

In a period of 10-15 minutes the winds started picking up, and they didnt stop. Second landing I was at an almost perfect 45 degree crab to maintain flight track over the center line. Tower asked if I wanted to go again, I said "NO... I needed to taxi back to my instructor, I was calling it because of winds". Tower said "Probably a good call, winds are 15 gusting 20".

CFI said he was waiting to see if I made that call or started taxiing for another before he stopped and he was happier I made that call than that the landings were successful. On the way back it got bumpy enough that he said at current conditions he wouldnt go flying.

For me though, it had a bit of a setback effect. For a few months after i would start sweating, get nervous, and I had trouble with landings. I could land, I just wouldnt feel comfortable and I was nervous enough that it reflected in my form.

Moral? I kept pushing. Continued flying. A week later I did some landings at a grass strip then kicked my instructor out to do some more on my own. Those were perfect. Did some nice ones on the hard top short field, and that was the slow beginning to breaking the self/wind-inflicted plateau.

My palms sweat a whole lot less when I go flying now.

As a side note, I have no idea why you would practice stalls on your first solo. I thought doing that kind of stuff on your own was best left for the end of your training when you're flying solo a lot and prepping for a check ride. I can understand you never wanting to go back. I sure didnt. Maybe consider finding someone else as an instructor. Tell them about it what happened and let them work you through it
Click to expand...

You should NEVER practice stalls by yourself at any phase of your student training. The main reason you and the CFI do stalls is so you can FEEL and recognize them when they start. Its not to get good at them.
 
CTLSi said:
You should NEVER practice stalls by yourself at any phase of your student training. The main reason you and the CFI do stalls is so you can FEEL and recognize them when they start. Its not to get good at them.
Click to expand...

This sentence made me laugh. That mirrors my opinion but I was originally told that after I'm comfortable I should be trying them out on my own. I never have.
 
CTLSi said:
You should NEVER practice stalls by yourself at any phase of your student training. The main reason you and the CFI do stalls is so you can FEEL and recognize them when they start. Its not to get good at them.
Click to expand...

No, it's to get good at the RECOVERY. Which means you should be measuring altitude loss for every one.

Yes, you do need to do that.

Power off stalls also help you maintain coordination through the flare and landing.
 
MAKG1 said:
No, it's to get good at the RECOVERY. Which means you should be measuring altitude loss for every one.

Yes, you do need to do that.

Power off stalls also help you maintain coordination through the flare and landing.
Click to expand...

Arguable. Spin training would teach stalls and recovery. PP training is not to learn acrobatics.

The point of stall training at this level is to learn how stalls happen and how to recognize one EARLY and recover before the full stall develops.

It is not something to practice alone, especially when first learning to fly. The PTS requires demonstration of slow flight stalls, and slow turn stalls. But notice that is with a DPE in the plane.

Most CFIs restrict doing stalls during solo flight. If his has not done that, he can still put that restriction on himself if he wants to be safe.

The chances of dipping a wing and entering a spin from a stall (something not taught in PP training) are a high risk.
 
Last edited:
CTLSi said:
It is not something to practice alone, especially when first learning to fly. The PTS requires demonstration of slow flight stalls, and slow turn stalls. But notice that is with a DPE in the plane.

Most CFIs restrict doing stalls during solo flight. If his has not done that, he can still put that restriction on himself if he wants to be safe.

The chances of dipping a wing and entering a spin from a stall (something not taught in PP training) are a high risk.
Click to expand...

My CFIs would laugh themselves sick at this.

Heck, my TW instructor requires demonstration of recovery from a fully developed spin prior to solo.

If you're not comfortable doing a stall through the break and recovery (at altitude), you shouldn't be soloing and you darn sure shouldn't be licensed.
 
warthog1984 said:
My CFIs would laugh themselves sick at this.

Heck, my TW instructor requires demonstration of recovery from a fully developed spin prior to solo.

If you're not comfortable doing a stall through the break and recovery (at altitude), you shouldn't be soloing and you darn sure shouldn't be licensed.
Click to expand...


Power off stalls? I can do them all day. Power on stalls? Not by myself yet. I have done several and had a couple that were interesting. I have recovered them all on my own. And I am confident I could again, but out if an abundance of caution, I'll wait a little longer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
mikeinbama said:
Power off stalls? I can do them all day. Power on stalls? Not by myself yet. I have done several and had a couple that were interesting. I have recovered them all on my own. And I am confident I could again, but out if an abundance of caution, I'll wait a little longer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

What about accelerated (turning) stalls aka departure and base/final stalls?

The goal isn't to have you practice stalls for the sake of stalling; it's so that in case you end up in a stalling or stalled situation you will react properly. And if you only do these with a "safety" pilot onboard, when the day comes that you find yourself low-and-slow when you're solo; well maybe you'll react properly, or maybe you won't.
 
warthog1984 said:
What about accelerated (turning) stalls aka departure and base/final stalls?

The goal isn't to have you practice stalls for the sake of stalling; it's so that in case you end up in a stalling or stalled situation you will react properly. And if you only do these with a "safety" pilot onboard, when the day comes that you find yourself low-and-slow when you're solo; well maybe you'll react properly, or maybe you won't.
Click to expand...

That is actually the ones that were interesting, the power on turning stall. And I guess in answer to your question, if I don't react properly, I die. You pays ya money and you takes ya chances. I try to be as safe as possible,but because I am behind the knowledge curve, I try to mitigate my risk. For me, I believe it is less risk, right now, to not practice power on stall recover solo. I have demonstrated those satisfactorily to my instructor, he believes I am ok to solo, he is also ok with me not doing power on stalls solo, he is also ok with it if I do.
 
I'm kinda gobsmacked by all this.

You mean there are instructors out there endorsing solo's without ever doing full power stall and spin recovery?

I guess I had a good instructor, and it was back in the seventies when liability was an unknown word. We did everything except inverted flight in a Cherokee 140 before he turned me loose.
 
Not sure if you are referring to my post or not. However, I did learn and practice power on stall, power off stall and accelerated stall recovery. The PA28-151 I am training in is not approved for spins. If it were, we would have spun it. I have fully demonstrated satisfactory recovery from all of these. I CHOOSE to not practice power on stalls solo.......yet. In due time.
 
warthog1984 said:
My CFIs would laugh themselves sick at this.

Heck, my TW instructor requires demonstration of recovery from a fully developed spin prior to solo.

If you're not comfortable doing a stall through the break and recovery (at altitude), you shouldn't be soloing and you darn sure shouldn't be licensed.
Click to expand...

100% correct.
 
My CFIsticles shrunk to the size of raisins while reading that.

Nice save! I feel like you're better at being a student than your CFI is at being a CFI. If he doesn't apologize by filling you with beer until you say only promises, I'd get a new CFI. I might get one anyway... but if not, at least keep a close eye on that Syllabus from now on. :D
 
mikeinbama said:
I try to be as safe as possible,but because I am behind the knowledge curve, I try to mitigate my risk. For me, I believe it is less risk, right now, to not practice power on stall recover solo. I have demonstrated those satisfactorily to my instructor, he believes I am ok to solo, he is also ok with me not doing power on stalls solo, he is also ok with it if I do.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. Yes, you should be able to demonstrate stalls, and stall recovery pre-solo. But there is no need to go do them by yourself without a CFI, or other skilled pilot, on board.

I have never felt the need to go practice stalls solo.
 
txflyer said:
I guess I had a good instructor, and it was back in the seventies when liability was an unknown word. We did everything except inverted flight in a Cherokee 140 before he turned me loose.
Click to expand...

Spins were a required maneuver at one time, but no longer. I don't know if they were required in the 70s or not.

I had a discussion with my CFI as to whether spins were even permitted without parachutes, given the 60 degree bank, 30 degree pitch limitations in the FAR. There is an exception to this for required flight training, but spin training isn't "required" for primary. I think only CFI candidates are required to have spin training, now. Someone else may know better.
 
Old Thread: Hello . There have been no replies in this thread for 365 days.
Content in this thread may no longer be relevant.
Perhaps it would be better to start a new thread instead.
Back
Top