Navigating by Pilotage

catmandu said:
I am sure I have done longer ones (like those @Tools referenced), but the one that sticks in my mind was 126 NM, solo student cross country in 1984 in a C150.

It was only supposed to be two legs and 100 NM, but fuel pumps were OTS at my intended stop, without a NOTAM, or anyone around to endorse my logbook. So I improvised to the 'nearest' back when such buttons did not exist.

[timewarp]
When I got to my "divert" I called my instructor on a landline using an MCI card (thank God the FBO had a push button pay phone, and he was in the office to answer) to update him on the change.
[/timewarp]

"Good decision, chart your return, come on back."
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Wow, that's such a cool story. Thanks for sharing.
 
interesting question....
I learned to fly and did most all of my logged time in the days before GPS, so pretty much all of my flights that were VFR involved at least some pilotage (and ded reckoning). Still, thinking back to any that I flew for sure without using the VOR or ADF. Several local and flights to nearby airports in the schools no electric system Champ come to mind but as for significant cross country, the only one that comes to mind that I can say for sure I didn't use any electronic navigation was a VFR flight up the coast around the outer banks, from Morehead City up to Williamsburg...measuring on google maps it looks to be roughly 240 miles.
 
iamtheari said:
Here’s my thread about it: https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/community/threads/children-of-the-magenta-highlighter.120184/

TL;DR: 750 nm in a 1941 J-3 Cub with no electrical system and no navigational equipment that wasn’t available when the plane was new (except, it turned out, the magenta highlighter that I used to have a good thread title).

Child’s play for a lot of the real pilots here, but still a memorable page in my logbook.
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I loved all the pictures you took along the way. What an awesome trip!
 
Albany Tom said:
If I flew around in the flat states, I'd absolutely have a GPS at all times. Not only is there very little terrain reference, all of the roads are usually NS or EW, too. There's a reason that people used to paint the names of towns on barns and water towers.
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I get this. Here in AZ, there are lots of very distinguishable geographic landmarks that can be seen from almost 100 miles away. That makes it VERY difficult to get lost. Flying from Chandler to Flagstaff, you basically clear the Bravo at PHX, and get to the North end of the city, and you can already start to make out Humphrey's peak (12,633' mountain). The airport is just a few miles South of there.

I haven't flown out in the mid-west at all. I'm imagining a flat endless sea of green farm fields. I can see that being much more difficult to navigate by pilotage.
 
MauleSkinner said:
I find the flat states easier for pilotage. I guess it’s how you started out and/or what you’re used to.
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That's very interesting. And yes, I'd agree that what you're more accustomed to would feel more familiar and put you 'at ease' a bit. But I do have a question. When you're navigating my pilotage like that in the flat states, what visual landmarks are you using?
 
Warren Dunes said:
Not to me, you can deviate for weather or curiosity. Lost means not knowing where you are.
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If you deviate you have changed course and are still following your new course and know where you are. Off course to me is when you think you are on course the realize you are not. So yes, you are lost.
 
PaulS said:
If you deviate you have changed course and are still following your new course and know where you are. Off course to me is when you think you are on course the realize you are not. So yes, you are lost.
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Disagree, mostly. As per definition:

Off course

Not following the planned, or intended, route.


Lost

Unable to find one's way
 
azpilot said:
That's very interesting. And yes, I'd agree that what you're more accustomed to would feel more familiar and put you 'at ease' a bit. But I do have a question. When you're navigating my pilotage like that in the flat states, what visual landmarks are you using?
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While I live here in Goodyear (West phx), I grew up in Southern Illinois, near CPS.

Coal-burning power plants, rivers, power lines, cities of note, yes, there are simply different things to look at than what we have here.

Illinois.jpg
 
PaulS said:
If you deviate you have changed course and are still following your new course and know where you are. Off course to me is when you think you are on course the realize you are not. So yes, you are lost.
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Which is exactly my point in post #129 of this thread…
https://www.pilotsofamerica.com/com...za-down-near-aspen.132985/page-4#post-3183218
you’re saying that “off course” doesn’t mean “off course”, it means “off course and you don’t know it.”
 
azpilot said:
I get this. Here in AZ, there are lots of very distinguishable geographic landmarks that can be seen from almost 100 miles away. That makes it VERY difficult to get lost. Flying from Chandler to Flagstaff, you basically clear the Bravo at PHX, and get to the North end of the city, and you can already start to make out Humphrey's peak (12,633' mountain). The airport is just a few miles South of there.

I haven't flown out in the mid-west at all. I'm imagining a flat endless sea of green farm fields. I can see that being much more difficult to navigate by pilotage.
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Fun fact: I can fly direct from here in North Dakota to the Phoenix area at 8500 and the only rock I would have to go around is Humphreys Peak.

Pilotage here in the upper midwest mostly involves using different kinds of landmarks than you have. And one thing you learn early, usually in your dual cross country, is that some of the things on the sectional are useless as landmarks. For example, power lines are hard to spot unless they go through a forest where the right-of-way has been cleared. But even small towns generally pop out of the landscape. Curves in roads, railroads, and rivers are usually helpful. Sometimes small lakes help, sometimes not so much. Coal power plants make giant water vapor plumes visible from 50 or 100 miles away.
 
In 1954 EVERYTHING was pilotage. Champs didn't have electrical.
I made a trans-continental cross country by pilotage in 65 or so. Rota Spain to Tangier Morocco in a 7AC Champ. (Gibraltar looks way different by air, but it's a pretty good check point.)
 
pmanton said:
In 1954 EVERYTHING was pilotage. Champs didn't have electrical.
I made a trans-continental cross country by pilotage in 65 or so. Rota Spain to Tangier Morocco in a 7AC Champ. (Gibraltar looks way different by air, but it's a pretty good check point.)
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OMG! :eek2::eek2::eek2:

That's a pretty cool story! What were you doing in Spain and Africa in 1954???
 
pmanton said:
In 1954 EVERYTHING was pilotage. Champs didn't have electrical.
I made a trans-continental cross country by pilotage in 65 or so. Rota Spain to Tangier Morocco in a 7AC Champ. (Gibraltar looks way different by air, but it's a pretty good check point.)
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Hey! That is where I learned to fly! The Rota NAS flying club. $3/Hr for the Champ. The T34 was expensive at $5/Hr! Flew to Barcelona in the T34. All we had was a WAC chart. Flew the Champ to Malaga many times. 1963 -1964
 
Before GPS, everything VFR was basically pilotage. I flew all over the northeast quadrant from home base in Central NY, from Maine to DC, up to 3 hour legs.
 
azpilot said:
What is the longest cross country you've ever completed just by using pilotage? I fly out of KCHD (Chandler municipal airport in the Phoenix metro area)
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Peachtree Dekalb (PDK) - Anniston (ANB) - Montgomery (MGM) - PDK. About 350nm.
 
chemgeek said:
Before GPS, everything VFR was basically pilotage. I flew all over the northeast quadrant from home base in Central NY, from Maine to DC, up to 3 hour legs.
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Not quite.... in my day in light GA there was VOR navigation, ADF navigation, and occasionally I think Loran (although I never flew Loran)...and then of course the RNAV units that stepped all of those up a few notches. I never had the pleasure of learning the old RNAV systems, sadly, except in the books. It was certainly possible and likely common to fly routes while not really referencing landmarks.

In my case and probably most though, you're kinda right...basically every VFR flight used at least some pilotage along the way....on the way to or from an airway, etc.....
 
chemgeek said:
Before GPS, everything VFR was basically pilotage. I flew all over the northeast quadrant from home base in Central NY, from Maine to DC, up to 3 hour legs.
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I liked to have our LORAN, a marked chart, a VOR or two tuned in, and, later, a GPS all going at once. I really want to know where I am. Didn't work as well in clouds, however.
 
last year, Las Vegas to El Paso - US93 to Phoenix, turn left, follow I-10. After the return, opened wallet and installed GNC355...
 
When I was learning to fly there was no GPS in civilian planes. Later on Very Rich folks were starting to put LORAN in their planes.

IFR was the way to go for cross country flights I once did a night IFR flight in IMC from Waco to College Station using the ADF because the VORs heads in the panel went dead, due to a power lead breaking we found out later.

My first few months in Alaska were sans GPS until I bought a low cost, hand held GPS marketed for hikers. To find the airport a pilot had to enter the lats and longs then name the way point. No magenta line, it just had an arrow that pointed towards the way point.
 
That's a pretty cool story! What were you doing in Spain and Africa in 1954???
Oops! 1954 I was a solo student flying out of the old Grand Central Air Terminal in Glendale CA. 1964 I was stationed in Spain. I bought a Champ from the Navy flying club at Rota Spain. I was a guest of the Real Aero Club de Espana at Tablada Air Base outside Sevilla. I kept my Champ there and flew all over Southern Spain and of course across the Strait of Gibraltar to Tangier. In 67 I was appointed a Warrant Officer and left Spain. Vietnam wasn't nearly as much fun.
 
Rich Holt said:
I think the best part of learning to fly out of Bremerton was that it was really hard to get lost. You just have to look for the two small hills and the airport is at their base. Learning to fly in that area, I was confused about how people managed to get lost flying while flying around. Then I moved to Texas.
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I know what you mean. Learning to fly out of Olympia was the same idea. I still live on the outskirts of Olympia, so I haven't had the pleasure of flying in most other states.
 
When I lived in Denver, we flew to Santa Fe - about 245 nm if straight line - a number of times. Very basic pilotage. Less even. Other that a weather briefing to check for gotchas, I eventually ended treating it like a local flight.
 
Related remembrance....

Back in the 70's, I had a grass strip with arguably one of the best navaids ever. Base leg to 36 was over the pool behind Lock and Dam 13 on the Mississippi River...an 8 mile across pool of water.

General procedure for returning home was 1) grab about the right heading 'til you hit the river. 2) If you were WAY off course and didn't see the pool when you found the river, follow it til a water tower oriented you up/down river. 3) Follow the river the correct way. Never failed once :)

Jim

Oops...the question!...longest pilotage was probably only from that strip in NW IL to Fort Frances, Canada.
 
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David Megginson said:
There's a middle position where you leave the GPS on for situational awareness, but don't draw a magneta line.
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Well, sort of. All pilotage really comes down to is situational awareness anyway, unless you are also using dead reckoning. So, magenta line or no, a GPS moving map is taking the burden away from you unless you also turn off own ship.

OTOH, GPS can be a learning tool to enhance pilotage skills. "I wonder whether that's the intersection I see on the map" is replaced by "Oh, that's the intersection I see out the window." It can help learn how to recognize things from the air better for when you really do pilotage.
 
Jim Rosenow said:
Related remembrance....

Back in the 70's, I had a grass strip with arguably one of the best navaids ever. Base leg to 36 was over the pool behind Lock and Dam 13 on the Mississippi River...an 8 mile across pool of water.

General procedure for returning home was 1) grab about the right heading 'til you hit the river. 2) If you were WAY off course and didn't see the pool when you found the river, follow it til a water tower oriented you up/down river. 3) Follow the river the correct way. Never failed once :)

Jim
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There’s actually a more precise way to do that…fly a few degrees off heading one way or the other so you know which way you’re off course. Then you don’t have to find a water tower to figure out which way to turn.
 
MauleSkinner said:
There’s actually a more precise way to do that…fly a few degrees off heading one way or the other so you know which way you’re off course. Then you don’t have to find a water tower to figure out which way to turn.
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Yeahbut....back then I was ALWAYS off-course...then I'da been off-course, off-heading :)

I remember doing it that way tho!...good call!
 
David Megginson said:
There's a middle position where you leave the GPS on for situational awareness, but don't draw a magneta line.
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I think this is a good idea to just help maintain situational awareness. I've done flights all around the Phoenix metro under and through the Bravo without GPS, but the stress level ratchets WAY up when I don't have that graphic showing me exactly where I am relative to all the airspace boundaries.
 
Zeldman said:
My first few months in Alaska were sans GPS until I bought a low cost, hand held GPS marketed for hikers. To find the airport a pilot had to enter the lats and longs then name the way point. No magenta line, it just had an arrow that pointed towards the way point.
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Sounds like my first Garmin GPS:

iu
 
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