Nav/Com radios

woodstock

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sounds like getting one of these is a good idea, ultimately.

question - does it plug into your headset - otherwise how could you hear in the cockpit?

and, is NAV a good feature to have too or just a nice add on?

I am thinking the Icom A23 looks pretty good, but the A24 just came out - are there significant enough differences for the price? (I think 130 bucks or so difference)

have you ever really needed yours?
 
woodstock said:
question - does it plug into your headset - otherwise how could you hear in the cockpit?

Most either come with or have an available accessory that is a headset converter. It plugs into the radio and has two big jacks for the headset (and sometimes a push to talk button).

I have a spare one for the Icom A23 if anybody needs it.
 
thanks Mark - just figured out the Sport version doesn't come with it, the regular one has it.

I think the A23 is smaller and lighter, isn't it? that's another plus for it...
 
I don't think the nav function is particularly useful, particularly if you have a handheld GPS (which by the way is a MUCH smarter portable purchase if you don't already have one).

I have had an A22 for about 7 years. Aside from occasional testing and getting ATIS while driving to the airport, it has remained in my flight bag or in a closet at home.

I am rather happy I didn't buy the thing. Someone trading up to a smaller one gave it to me. If I had spent hundreds of dollars on it, I would be, uh, disappointed.
 
woodstock said:
and, is NAV a good feature to have too or just a nice add on?

IT seems that it can work. I think Ed Guthrie and Eamon did some radio tests last year, and they could VOR navigate with the nav feature.

Having a hand held GPS with good batteries would probably be more useful during an electrical failure emergency.

have you ever really needed yours?

Not yet. It is handy, though. If I get to the club plane, and it needs fuel, I can call the FBO quick like to fetch the fuel truck. I also use it to get ATIS and call and get clearance before starting the engine. (although you could just as easily do that using the ships battery and radio without engine starting)
 
Bill Jennings said:
IT seems that it can work. I think Ed Guthrie and Eamon did some radio tests last year, and they could VOR navigate with the nav feature.

Having a hand held GPS with good batteries would probably be more useful during an electrical failure emergency.



Not yet. It is handy, though. If I get to the club plane, and it needs fuel, I can call the FBO quick like to fetch the fuel truck. I also use it to get ATIS and call and get clearance before starting the engine. (although you could just as easily do that using the ships battery and radio without engine starting)


you know, the few times my CFI has been a little tardy to the plane and I've had time to get clearances/squawk code /set everything up before he shows up... it's made a difference on the Hobbes! even if only a little. we went out one night and did a fair bit of stuff and when we got back I said wait, that Hobbes can't be right, we were out longer than that weren't we?
 
woodstock said:
thanks Mark - just figured out the Sport version doesn't come with it, the regular one has it.

The big diffrence between the regular and sport model is that the sport operated only by AA batteries where the regular model has a rechargable battery and you can get an optional AA battery pack for the regular model as a back up and if you shop around on the web you can always find someon throwing it in for free.

I've been looking at them for a while too. I finally decided it was best to buy the Com only and get the GPS handheld, now I just have to decide on which GPS handheld and if I should get the GPS or the com first since I only fly VFR right now.

Missa
 
Missa said:
I just have to decide on which GPS handheld and if I should get the GPS or the com first since I only fly VFR right now.

  1. If you can only afford one, I'd go for the GPS first, it's something you can use every flight.
  2. Which GPS is tough, what do you ultimately want to do?
I bought the Garmin 96C, and I've been very pleased with the purchase. But, with the release of the 396, I'll likely be seling the 96C at some point and ponying up the bucks (as expensive as it is) for the 396. Portable aircraft to aircraft in cockpit weather is good for the IFR renter.
 
woodstock said:
have you ever really needed yours?

Not since I bought the portable. Three times I've flown a rental plane to another airport and the radios wouldn't work when it was time to leave. On Sunday afternoon of course. I finally bought a Sporty's protable nav/com and hope I never need it. But I will not fly a rental again unless I have the portable with me.
 
Missa said:
The big diffrence between the regular and sport model is that the sport operated only by AA batteries where the regular model has a rechargable battery and you can get an optional AA battery pack for the regular model as a back up and if you shop around on the web you can always find someon throwing it in for free.

I've been looking at them for a while too. I finally decided it was best to buy the Com only and get the GPS handheld, now I just have to decide on which GPS handheld and if I should get the GPS or the com first since I only fly VFR right now.

Missa

thanks Missa. what did you decide? I guess I should take a look there too.
 
Beth,

Since you're in the DC area, a backup radio might be more important than a GPS (or equally important) for a VFR flyer. Just something to think about.
 
woodstock said:
thanks Missa. what did you decide? I guess I should take a look there too.
I like the Icom, I had decided on the A23 Nav/Com non sports model & making sure I bought it from someone throwing in the AA battery pack for free before I decided to get the com only model. I think the Com only model is the A3??? but I plan to buy the Com only version of the A23, whatever it's called. One thing if you have small hands you may not be able to operate it with one hand. I know that Razor had this problem with Icom and bought something else cause she wanted to be able to use it one handed. I had a chance to fondle someone else's A23 and had no problem operating it one handed. I'm not sure how much she checks in here but if you ask her she'll tell you about it and which brand she bought (your on the Babes too right, sometime I get so confused who's on which board).

I've been drooling on the Garmin PDA GPS (http://www.garmin.com/products/iQue3600a/) just because I need a PDA too as I broke mine & for a little extra you can get the auto maps too. I just haven't decided to lay out the cash mainly because I haven't done enough research. I can truly afford both if I just cut a couple of fights out for a couple of weeks. (I generally fly 3-5 hours a week). I'm feeling a little more research to do the research and buy a GPS as the FBO I rented from lost the lease at Troy and if they keep operating it will be at an airport over an hour away from my house. 2 of their 3 planes have a panel GPS and I really like using them as they are great for the situational awareness when I'm just going out to bore VFR holes in the sky with no intended destination. The nearest airport to my house has generally mechanically sound cessna's (with duct tape holding the interior together) but your lucky if one of the VORS aren't inop and no hope of a GPS. I need to check out some other places to get an airplane but I'm not so sure I won't just try to buy into a partnership or something. But a nice back up GPS would be useful even with a panel mounted one. Does anyone have any advice/pro/con about the iQue 3600a?

Missa
 
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I bought an A23 a few years ago.

does it plug into your headset - otherwise how could you hear in the cockpit?

Mine came with an "U" adapter. One side of the "U" is a jack for the standard female headphone plug, this is connected to a 1/8th inch four contact male jack that goes into the radio, another wire comes out of this 1/8th in jack and connects to a standard female microphone jack, another wire comes out of this jack and goes into a 1/8 in. female stereo jack for the PTT (sold or built separately).

and, is NAV a good feature to have too or just a nice add on?

Although mine has it, I haven't used it yet, and can't imagine if, or when I would. I opted for the NAV function because, at the time, I could afford it, and could see no reason not to get it. If the difference in price means that you won't be able to get the radio, I think I would probably get the radio without the nav, especially if I was in a critical area like D.C. I would think that a portable GPS would be a better choice.

have you ever really needed yours?

Never needed either the radio or nav function. Like I said, I got it because I could and needed a "toy" fix at the time. I do use it to listen to the ATIS, but as was noted in another post, that could just as easily be done with the aircraft radio.


One other point I feel compelled to mention. My radio only works on 12vdc. I got the one with the rechargable battery pack, and it will only work with a 12vdc power supply. When I bought mine (3?) years ago they didn't even sell a 24vdc->12vdc converter cord. If you want to be able to plug the radio into a 24vdc aircraft power system I had to build a converter. I didn't even consider this fact when I purchased mine, it seemed to me that since the vast majority of aircraft operate on 24vdc, any new, or recent vintage aircraft accessories would be equipped to operate on 24vdc.

This little diatribe wasn't to turn you away from the A23, as at the time I purchased mine, none of the radios had this ability. I have no idea if any of the current crop do. But one of the drawbacks of the rechargable battery packs, that I have heard of, is that they don't hold a charge for extended periods of time. The ability to plug the radio into the aircraft, thus allowing it to be at max charge when the aircraft power/radio fails would seem to me to be an advantage. Maybe if every pilot considering the purchase of aircraft portable items made these points, and the desirability of such a feature known to the salesmen, the companies would make them to work on both 12vdc and 24vdc power systems.
 
Missa said:
Does anyone have any advice/pro/con about the iQue 3600a?
I like the iQue and considered buying one. My basic issues with it are two:

One is that the battery life is so limited. The 296 goes for 10 hours or more without being plugged in, while the iQue is, I was told, lucky to go 2 hours.

The other is that the PDA has operational issues that prevent it from being as good a handheld GPS as a handheld GPS is. That's fine if you also want a PDA, but I did not. I don't think the PDA is built rugged enough, and the operating system is more glitch-ridden than on a 296.

Again, this is info my research turned up, and I have not used one operationally. I'm very happy with my new 296, which I bought new-and-unused-in-the-box off of eBay for a grand.
 
woodstock said:
sounds like getting one of these is a good idea, ultimately.

question - does it plug into your headset - otherwise how could you hear in the cockpit?

and, is NAV a good feature to have too or just a nice add on?

I am thinking the Icom A23 looks pretty good, but the A24 just came out - are there significant enough differences for the price? (I think 130 bucks or so difference)

have you ever really needed yours?

I'd vote for the Icom A23, but one thing I read said that you must use a PTT switch with their headset adapter because the mic on the radio is activated when you use the built in PTT switch. I've got two handhelds (KX-99 and VXA-210) and both have a VOR function. Despite what Ed posted, I've never seen either provide useful navigation beyond 15-20 miles unless it was connected to an external VOR antenna. Using an external COM antenna doesn't help the nav function much because VOR signals are horizontally polarized and a vertical comm antenna doesn't pick them up well. That said, the cost difference isn't much when you consider the extras that come with the A23 and of the two, only the A23 can receive audio from a VOR. That can come in handy for receiving wx and for when FSS has only a discrete receive frequency.

I also recommend going for an aviation GPS first as you are likely to use that far more often. I've never had to resort to the handheld to resolve an airborne failure of another radio, but I use my portable GPS's fairly often for various things including one occasion where my IFR GPS died mid-flight. Aside for use as the primary (one and only) comm radio in my taildragger, the only things I ever use the handheld comms is to monitor aircraft communications when I'm on the ground and occasionally to call for fuel or get a clearance. Oh, yeah, once I used it to get "taxi" clearance to drive my car across the field.
 
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woodstock said:
sounds like getting one of these is a good idea, ultimately.

question - does it plug into your headset - otherwise how could you hear in the cockpit?

and, is NAV a good feature to have too or just a nice add on?

I am thinking the Icom A23 looks pretty good, but the A24 just came out - are there significant enough differences for the price? (I think 130 bucks or so difference)

have you ever really needed yours?

I've carried both NAV/COM & GPS with all the options since PPL year 1 and they're both useful. There used to be a GPS/COM out there if you 'wanted all your eggs in one basket'.
 
Handhelds in the cockpit don't function nearly as well on the rubber ducky antenna as they do when jacked to an external one. If you own your own plane, I recommend getting a jack put in the panel off a coax switch that shifts the external antenna from your installed nav/com to the jack. Alternatively, put an additional antenna on the belly that leads directly to a jack on the floor of the cockpit. Either way, a short coax lead can connect the antenna plug on the handheld to the jack, giving you much better range of transmission and reception.
 
Ron Levy said:
Handhelds in the cockpit don't function nearly as well on the rubber ducky antenna as they do when jacked to an external one. If you own your own plane, I recommend getting a jack put in the panel off a coax switch that shifts the external antenna from your installed nav/com to the jack. Alternatively, put an additional antenna on the belly that leads directly to a jack on the floor of the cockpit. Either way, a short coax lead can connect the antenna plug on the handheld to the jack, giving you much better range of transmission and reception.

Yea, they kinda look down on you doing that to a rental though and I'm still in the renter catigory. (I think Elizbeth is too) I figure it's better to suffer with the rubber ducky antena when the rental looses all power then to be without anything.

Missa
 
from what I can tell - A23 and A5 are the same (but for Nav) and A24 and A6 are the same, but for nav. it seems to knock 100 bucks off the price. Might go with com only and get a GPS later. (unless in the interim having VOR at least is better than nada)
 
I bought a portable radio and a GPS when I started flying three years ago. I never used the radio until a few weeks ago. My Garmin 430 blew a breaker and I was getting a low warning on the bus. I shut down everything that I did not need because I have a Mooney and I kinda wanted the gear to go down before landing. I used both the GPS (Garmin 196) and the portable radio. I have an external antenna for both and a headset adapter for the radio. I was on an IFR plan and 50 miles from home base going in the wrong direction. I got clearance back to home and landed without any problems. I was talking to another pilot a few days later and he told me he heard me tell the controller I was using a portable radio and he could not believe how good it sounded. He said it sounded as good as any other radio he heard. I'm a firm believer in the external antenna.
 
Missa said:
Yea, they kinda look down on you doing that to a rental though and I'm still in the renter catigory. (I think Elizbeth is too) I figure it's better to suffer with the rubber ducky antena when the rental looses all power then to be without anything.

Missa

Here's a couple of antenna extenders that suction cup to the inside of a window. They aren't quite as good as an external antenna, but definitely better than a ducky on the radio.


http://www.batteriesandgadgets.com/site/814130/product/20-022

http://www.sportys.com/acb/showdetl.cfm?&DID=19&Product_ID=6995
 
lancefisher said:
Here's a couple of antenna extenders that suction cup to the inside of a window. They aren't quite as good as an external antenna, but definitely better than a ducky on the radio.

http://www.batteriesandgadgets.com/site/814130/product/20-022

FWIW, the Radio Shack item works great at better than 1/2 the price of Sporty's. I have one and have used it quite effectively with both my King KX-99 and my ICOM A23. Beats the heck out of holding the handheld in/against the window in the same spot so as to improve reception/transmission.
 
woodstock said:
from what I can tell - A23 and A5 are the same (but for Nav) and A24 and A6 are the same, but for nav. it seems to knock 100 bucks off the price. Might go with com only and get a GPS later. (unless in the interim having VOR at least is better than nada)
Since I started flying, I've carried a radio as backup. Both had nav function and both worked okay. As long as I am in my local area, I doubt I'll need the nav. The radio is a great backup.
I got the A23 at the local FBO which matched the price from Sporty's.
 
Well elizabeth i'll put in my 2 cents, I have a Gramin196(that i love) and until someone decided they liked it better use to have a A-5 Icom(Comm only), i use the 196 every flight and like the idea that it has a panel screen (between 700 &1000 dollars ).The A-5 i used on the way to the airport to get ATIS and felt better having a backup radio(never needed it). This combo seem to be the best arangement to me. But that your call. I figured i dont need Nav in the radio with the GPS.
Dave G.
 
woodstock said:
from what I can tell - A23 and A5 are the same (but for Nav) and A24 and A6 are the same, but for nav. it seems to knock 100 bucks off the price. Might go with com only and get a GPS later. (unless in the interim having VOR at least is better than nada)

Save the $100 then use it to buy Ken's old GPS, which will do the trick, but I wanted a fancier one.

Missa
 
I have the A23/A23 (whichever the bigger radio was when I bought it 6-7 years ago), and I've been quite happy.

Since you're in the ADIZ, a COM radio is probably essential - get it before a GPS.

I have an external antenna on the plane with a jack inside for use with the handheld, so I'm not using the rubber ducky antenna.

I use it to pick up ATIS, to listen to stuff at airshows, and similar things so I know it works. At a couple of airports - like Scottsdale - I've used it to pick up my clearance (SDL requires that you get clearance prior to engine start, and requires that you get clearance FOR engine start). It's also served as a monitor for 121.5 when I needed both com radios in the plane for other stuff.

You'll want an adapter to use your headset with the portable. And an external PTT switch so you won't have to hold the radio at an inopportune time. Since you rent, consider an 'extension' antenna with rubber suction cups that you can attach to the windscreen to maximize range.

I agree with the others. NAV function is not essential. I've used it to be sure it works, but not for actual use in flight. GPS is a better choice for that. If you can get somewhere that ATC radar has good coverage or an ASR approach, the NAV function is unnecessary.

Skip the rechargable battery pack. For backup use, AA's are better and fresher. Buy a second AA pack and carry that instead of the rechargable. Rechargable will not be usable when you need it.
 
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woodstock said:
from what I can tell - A23 and A5 are the same (but for Nav) and A24 and A6 are the same, but for nav. it seems to knock 100 bucks off the price. Might go with com only and get a GPS later. (unless in the interim having VOR at least is better than nada)

One feature the NAV side provides for that $100 difference is duplex receive/transmit to FSS over a VOR as well as TWEB reception on VOR frequencies, etc. I don't know if the COM only units will allow that functionality--perhaps something to check before you buy.
 
Ed Guthrie said:
One feature the NAV side provides for that $100 difference is duplex receive/transmit to FSS over a VOR as well as TWEB reception on VOR frequencies, etc. I don't know if the COM only units will allow that functionality--perhaps something to check before you buy.

My sources say that the A5 cannot receive audio on VOR frequencies. The A23 can and it also allows duplex operation. Also the cost difference is less than the advertized prices indicate since the A23 comes with a fairly expensive headset adapter.

One other caveat: while both the A23 and A5 come with an external power cord, that will only work in airplanes that have a 12 volt outlet. 28 volts will damage the radio.
 
Paul Allen said:
I bought a portable radio and a GPS when I started flying three years ago. I never used the radio until a few weeks ago. My Garmin 430 blew a breaker and I was getting a low warning on the bus. I shut down everything that I did not need because I have a Mooney and I kinda wanted the gear to go down before landing. I used both the GPS (Garmin 196) and the portable radio. I have an external antenna for both and a headset adapter for the radio. I was on an IFR plan and 50 miles from home base going in the wrong direction. I got clearance back to home and landed without any problems. I was talking to another pilot a few days later and he told me he heard me tell the controller I was using a portable radio and he could not believe how good it sounded. He said it sounded as good as any other radio he heard. I'm a firm believer in the external antenna.

Paul;

Wow; Your experience shows that it never hurts to have both portable units. I carried both the 196 and the ICOM when ever I flew.

Thanks for sharing

John
 
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