brien23
Cleared for Takeoff
Over the weekend some real nasty radio calls people with a short fuse. The weather is nice and lots of people flying can we all get along.
Nasty people on the radio.
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James331
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James331
Meh, I find it funny, adds to the enjoyment of the day, nothing like a little comedy
"Hey Joe. . .Uhhhhh.....uhhhhh...is that, ya know....event, we....when last Saturday. . .are you doing that, uhhhh again . . .?
"Uhhhh. . .we parked. . .do you mean where we. . .ya know, when we couldn't tie down, cause Eric was. . .was he late then?"
Geez, I just step on them now - they're usually three airports away on CTAF anyway, though you can't really tell for sure, especially if two airports in the vicinity have the same runway numbers. . .
"Uhhh. . .Cessna . . .Cessna...Cessna 1234 is. . . Uhhh... downwind. . .downwind for 30".
Maybe here, maybe somewhere else, maybe meant 03. . .I avoid nice weekend days at uncontrolled fields now.
"Uhhhh. . .we parked. . .do you mean where we. . .ya know, when we couldn't tie down, cause Eric was. . .was he late then?"
Geez, I just step on them now - they're usually three airports away on CTAF anyway, though you can't really tell for sure, especially if two airports in the vicinity have the same runway numbers. . .
"Uhhh. . .Cessna . . .Cessna...Cessna 1234 is. . . Uhhh... downwind. . .downwind for 30".
Maybe here, maybe somewhere else, maybe meant 03. . .I avoid nice weekend days at uncontrolled fields now.
denverpilot
Tied Down
Act like you know them... LOL.
“Hey, do you have Joe’s cell phone number?”
“Yeah. Let me get it for ya.”
“Oh I don’t want it. Just use it to text him for those lunch plans and I’ll be good.”
champ driver
Line Up and Wait
That's the other good reason I turn off my handheld if I'm just flying around and not going anywhere special. It's not the nasty calls, but I don't have to listen to all the amateur hour calls and stepping on each other.
Let'sgoflying!
Touchdown! Greaser!
Here, we have a problem with S-of-the-border pilots thinking 121.5 is good for chatting. More often than not you get in a plane and com2 has been turned all the way down.
Kansas Flyer
Pre-takeoff checklist
Sometimes having a good receiver is a curse. I can often pick up transmissions from traffic in the pattern at other fields 120nm away when atmospherics are good and I get so tired of listening to poor radio procedure on 122.8 that I just turn it off until i'm on my way back in.
timwinters
Ejection Handle Pulled
If most people wouldn't be soooooo stoooooopid, many other people wouldn't be soooooo nasty.
I heard a guy coming into Cape Girardeau, MO (class D) about a month ago that couldn't make a radio call for the life of him. He stuttered, stumbled around and screwed up EVERY call and EVERY readback.
He even entered a left base when tower had clearly told him to enter a right base.
I saw that one coming because when he replied to the tower's instructions he just said "report two mile base" and didn't include which hand.
So, he reports a two mile base (again, no right or left) and towers says "I do not have you in sight."
I almost keyed up and said "look on left base" but didn't. (or more appropriately, "look for the idiot on left base.")
Sure enough, tower came back about 20 seconds later and said "oh, there you are, on left base instead of right base. Cleared to land runway 10."
And...
What was the guy flying...
A KING AIR 200
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THAT'S SCARY!!!
I heard a guy coming into Cape Girardeau, MO (class D) about a month ago that couldn't make a radio call for the life of him. He stuttered, stumbled around and screwed up EVERY call and EVERY readback.
He even entered a left base when tower had clearly told him to enter a right base.
I saw that one coming because when he replied to the tower's instructions he just said "report two mile base" and didn't include which hand.
So, he reports a two mile base (again, no right or left) and towers says "I do not have you in sight."
I almost keyed up and said "look on left base" but didn't. (or more appropriately, "look for the idiot on left base.")
Sure enough, tower came back about 20 seconds later and said "oh, there you are, on left base instead of right base. Cleared to land runway 10."
And...
What was the guy flying...
A KING AIR 200
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THAT'S SCARY!!!
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Aztec Flyer
Wow.
We had two of our tower controllers in for an evening session at our club a couple of months ago. They did a presentation with some radar plots and audio of some of the stuff they have dealt with. Unbelievable.
We are a heavy training airport with some turbine/jet and quite a bit of helicopter traffic mixed in. I thought it would be students, low time renters or transients coming in that would be the main source of the problems. Nope. PPLs resident at our own field flying privately owned (e.g. not the commercial training or rental craft) airplanes make the most imaginative screw ups. Hoowoodanown?
At an uncontrolled field I was with a student practicing landings. Another plane in the pattern 3 times make a comment over the radio telling us to tighten up the pattern. I key up and “I am instructing a student, he is in the process of learning. And so far in this lesson he learned that there impatient people that feel they are more important” he broke off and went somewhere else.
Zeldman
Touchdown! Greaser!
When following another plane in the pattern I make sure I keep the distance between us. I don't expect the plane in front of me to change any thing to accommodate me. It bothers me to hear a pilot in front of me saying they will hurry up for me. Don't. I'll give you the room to do your normal landing and exit the runway safely.
SkyDog58
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Canis Non Grata
A couple of weekends ago, a flight of six planes going somewhere together were all over 122.8 which of course is used for several airports in the area. They were discussing each other’s position, what sort of pattern entry they wanted to make, which runway, who was going first, who was going second, etc. A couple of other pilots chimed in with a suggestion that they go to a different frequency. No help.
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Say again?
Ted
The pilot formerly known as Twin Engine Ted
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iFlyNothing
Just because someone is flying a bigger, more capable airplane doesn't mean they know what they're doing.
I think that part of the reason for the popularity of the King Air is that the thing is so forgiving and easy to fly that you don't need a very good pilot to still have a good safety record.
Not saying that people who fly King Airs are marginal pilots, just that the plane is more tolerant of it. Conversely, people who fly MU-2s aren't necessarily above average pilots, they're just flying a plane less tolerant of errors.
mscard88
Touchdown! Greaser!
Had that happen last night with a student! We were on base and he was on downwind and says something similar as yours, but I just ignored him. Now if he had confronted me on the ground that would have been a different response. And our pattern was normal. So **** him!
Ravioli
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Unwanted Guest - Perma-ban Pending
But was it a TWIN King Air?
No joke, some guy saw me with an airplane shirt on and began to regale me with stories of the awesome trips he gets to take in the company's TWIN King Air.
I was about as impressed as you would expect
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Ari
I don't necessarily hurry up for anyone, but I do like to talk to them and coordinate. If you're flying straight in and I'm in the pattern, I have the right of way, but a little bit of conversation can go a long way toward us both being happy and nobody having to yield the right of way to anyone else. You say that you don't expect the plane in front of you to change anything to accommodate you, but I think it's polite, when I'm in the plane in front of you, to give you the information that you need to determine if you need to change anything to accommodate me. It's all about communication, not about getting out of people's way or anything like that.
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Ari
We all know this guy:But was it a TWIN King Air?
No joke, some guy saw me with an airplane shirt on and began to regale me with stories of the awesome trips he gets to take in the company's TWIN King Air.
I was about as impressed as you would expect
That seems to be a common misconception.
91.113(g): "Landing. Aircraft, while on final approach to land or while landing, have the right-of-way over other aircraft in flight or operating on the surface, except that they shall not take advantage of this rule to force an aircraft off the runway surface which has already landed and is attempting to make way for an aircraft on final approach. When two or more aircraft are approaching an airport for the purpose of landing, the aircraft at the lower altitude has the right-of-way, but it shall not take advantage of this rule to cut in front of another which is on final approach to land or to overtake that aircraft."
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Ari
I should have been more clear: If I'm in the pattern at 800 AGL and you're straight-in from 20 miles out at 8,000, I have the right of way. At least that's my reading, because we are both approaching for the purpose of landing and I am at the lower altitude. Just because I'm on downwind and you are straight-in does not mean you are "on final approach to land." But I have not taken the time to research if that phrase has been interpreted in a way that would bring this situation into the first half of 91.113(g) instead of the second half.
Either way, my underlying point stands: Communicate helpfully and politely and everyone is happy. Act like a traffic pattern cop and nobody is happy.
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Kansas Flyer
Pre-takeoff checklist
Those rules are pretty vague which I think causes quite a bit of confusion. I wish we had a setup more like the maritime rules of the road so that who has the right of way would be clearer.
As far as straight in approaches go I think they should be avoided at uncontrolled fields in most circumstances.
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
If the guy on final (whether 1, 5, 10, or 20 miles out) doesn't have to alter his approach when you turn base and final, there's no worries. But if I'm on a 1 mile final with an approach speed of 100kts and you turn base with your 40kt pattern, you are going to be in the wrong. And If Ive been flying 4 hours, have to **** like a race horse, and I'm set up to go straight in, I go straight in.
Generally I always fly a straight in if it's conducive, though I will attempt to adjust speed faster or slower so no one else has to extend down wind. And if someone is intent on showing me "who's right" by cutting me off because they were in the pattern first, I'll enter upwind. I generally don't like to be in the pattern because most aircraft flying patterns are (a lot) slower, and then I have to fly some ridiculous wide pattern, or leave the pattern and reenter. Once took me 15 minutes to try and get into the pattern because every plane in it was flying at half the speed I was, and they refused to let anyone else in because they had this thought that being in the pattern = right of way.
danhagan
En-Route
Luckily, most times I'm flying something fast ... as I'd hate to have these yahoos on my six in the Luscombe
denverpilot
Tied Down
And then you’d still have idiots who’d say the rule of gross tonnage applies. The boating rules really aren’t any better in practice.
Lowflynjack
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Jack Fleetwood
There are some good articles out there explaining the FAA's interpretation of this and they give good examples. You are correct in saying if you're on a 1 mile final, you have the right-of-way. The key word is "final". In the examples in a recent Flying magazine article, they showed that 3 miles out is considered final. Anything longer than that is usually interpreted as a straight-in approach and then you have to be careful not to interfere with someone flying a standard pattern.
They also used this to discuss direction of turns in a pattern. For example, you're entering a documented left hand pattern (with segmented circle) on a right base. Not legal. However, if you're five miles out and you turn to the right, then it's interpreted as a straight-in approach and it is legal.
I personally think they keep the rules vague to trap us!
Kansas Flyer
Pre-takeoff checklist
There are already quite a few pilots that operate as if the law of gross tonnage applies. You can't tell those guys anything anyway, but clearer right of way rules would benefit the rest of us.
denverpilot
Tied Down
What’s unclear about them?
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
I don't get Flying anymore, but if I'm more than 3 out and straight in, wouldn't I eventually be less than 3 out and be on final?
Jeffythequick
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Jeffythequick
Yeah, I'm like that too. When someone calls out in their jet airplane that they're on 10 mile final and I'm on crosswind in the Tomahawk, I tell them where I am and extend my downwind for them. They're usually revenue flights, and getting the people in that extra bit early helps, plus I like being in the air! An extra mile or two adds 2-4 minutes that helps them out. If I'm more than halfway downwind, I just drop in extra fast and get out of the way, making sure I communicate.
Not like the guy at JZI last weekend that was taking off from 9 when everyone was landing on 27, and not a peep out of him (or her). As the Cessna Jet was coming in from 10 miles out, I called this out to him, and when Runway 9 guy turned base towards me (I was on downwind), I throttled up and got out of the pattern, and let Cessna Jet guy know that Runway 9 guy was no factor.
Lowflynjack
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Jack Fleetwood
Yes, but if you're further out that 3 miles, a plane can turn base in front of you and you don't have a complaint, no matter how fast you are. Once you're inside of 3 miles, you can say you're on final. Of course this is all based on examples and what the FAA felt was a good interpretation of the rules at the time!I don't get Flying anymore, but if I'm more than 3 out and straight in, wouldn't I eventually be less than 3 out and be on final?
timwinters
Ejection Handle Pulled
And then you have the "I'm cock"* weenie jet jock gang who talk on the radio like they have a mouth full of marbles because they think it makes them sound cool. Typically it's the regional and corporate jet guys.
Can't understand a gd word they say sometimes.
"The Stevie Nicks of the air" as I refer to them.
* "I'm cock" is a saying from the late 70's (the prehistoric era for some here (@OkieFlyer, @Radar Contact)) that means "look how effing cool I am."
Can't understand a gd word they say sometimes.
"The Stevie Nicks of the air" as I refer to them.
* "I'm cock" is a saying from the late 70's (the prehistoric era for some here (@OkieFlyer, @Radar Contact)) that means "look how effing cool I am."
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
THAT I agree with.
Where to they teach calls like 'N2345' 5 east, last call this frequeny' ?
Or to call every taxi and where they're going. Surprised they don't five the address
This is a very busy pilot controlled airport soon to get a test virtual tower. I think that will be a lot of fun.
Or to call every taxi and where they're going. Surprised they don't five the address
This is a very busy pilot controlled airport soon to get a test virtual tower. I think that will be a lot of fun.
"...but it shall not take advantage of this rule to cut in front of another which is on final approach to land..."
If they're twenty miles out, it's a moot point, because they're not close enough for right-of-way to become an issue. But if you cut in front of a straight-in close enough to force them to deviate, then you have violated the clause above.
Where do you think final approach begins when a straight-in is flown?
I think that if the aircraft making a straight-in and the aircraft on base are close enough together for right-of-way to be an issue, then the straight-in aircraft is close enough to be considered to be on final approach.
I agree. I'm just saying that the idea that traffic in the pattern has the right-of-way over straight-ins is a dangerous myth, and it's one that has gotten people busted:
https://www.ntsb.gov/legal/alj/OnODocuments/Aviation/4236.pdf
EdFred
Taxi to Parking
But....but....but....he was in the pattern first!
Holy crap reading that, someone needed to drag that guy from his aircraft and beat him until he was unable to function on his own.
Surprisingly, the guy in that decision still owns the aircraft!
And apparently got his commercial again in 2010, and is now a flight instructor. Yipes.
Another weird thing....he's a CFI with no instrument rating. How?
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Forgot NOCO traffic N2345 Left Final 15 NOCO.
Gotta watch that traffic on Right Final
Gotta watch that traffic on Right Final
Omalley1537
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Sean
Indeed. My CFI at PAE told me about one such student (signed off for solo at another nearby airport) flew into PAE’s area without any radio call prior to announcing his tail number and “touch and go”, then would only reply “touch and go” in broken English to all requests by the tower...