Narcan through insurance

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TheOpioidReverser

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I live in a state with high opioid deaths. I haven't nor know anybody who uses opioids but I'd like to have one in my car incase I do see someone ODing that I could hopefully help them. My mother always told me to keep a CPR mask in the car just incase I needed to give CPR to someone... with the opioid abuse I'd like to carry Narcan as well just-in-case.

With this, if I want to get Narcan through the pharmacy so I have a $0 co-pay would the FAA notice that and what would they say? Currently have a class 1 medical.

Just trying to look out for our fellow human beings but worried the FAA may stop that.

Thanks
 
midwestpa24 said:
I really don't think you want to be walking around administering drugs to strangers. Leave it to the professionals.
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Especially narcan. They usually come up swinging, and it takes a couple guys to control them.
 
Brad Z said:
Experienced street medics know that narcan titration is the difference between a snoring patient and a swinging junkie.
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I guess our ambulance crews don't do it enough... the two times I've seen it done it turned into a fight lol. It's amazing how fast it works.
 
After reading through some of the denial threads, specifically the tattoo guy, is it really too much of a stretch to think some AME or OKC bureaucrat will see the insurance record, think that if you need narcan you either have a history of or associate with drug abusers and therefore need a HIMS eval just to be on the "safe side"?

I'm not so sure. I wouldn't risk it.
 
Jim K said:
Especially narcan. They usually come up swinging, and it takes a couple guys to control them.
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Also, NARCAN is shorter-lived than the opiates it's antagonizing. You better be ready with another dose or other supportive care when it wears off.
 
Jim K said:
I guess our ambulance crews don't do it enough... the two times I've seen it done it turned into a fight lol. It's amazing how fast it works.
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It’s fast. If they’re BLS EMTs, they're administering nasally so they can’t really titrate. When administered via IV, you ideally want to give just enough to get breathing going again, but not enough that they’re on their feet.
 
We never titrated back when I was in EMS. We usually ended up dumping the whole preload on them along with O2 and D50.
 
You likely know several people who use opioids. You just might not know they use or abuse.
So you likely would not know the symptoms and if they are overdosing.
I do not think you should be administrating drugs of any sort to anyone.
 
Sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen ...:dunno:
 
rk911 said:
according to this https://www.narcan.com/ it’s available without an Rx.
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yeah it’s weird, it IS a prescription drug, but most states have provisions to sell it OTC.

Used appropriately, its potential (life-saving) is waayy greater than the risk to the pt (using it on a pt in a non-opioid crisis is mostly not a problem). I’m in favor of it.
 
No, I wouldn’t get it on my insurance. For one thing, you’re buying a medication to use on someone else. If your insurance pays for it, that’s insurance fraud just as much as if someone borrowed your insurance card.

You should also be realistic about your ability to diagnose a narcotic overdose.
 
OneCharlieTango said:
No, I wouldn’t get it on my insurance. For one thing, you’re buying a medication to use on someone else. If your insurance pays for it, that’s insurance fraud just as much as if someone borrowed your insurance card.

You should also be realistic about your ability to diagnose a narcotic overdose.
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Then again, Narcan is pretty much innocuous if someone isn't on opioids. I thought about getting it, but then I remembered I don't like to touch people.
 
Jim K said:
Especially narcan. They usually come up swinging, and it takes a couple guys to control them.
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Decades ago when I worked trauma imaging, I hated the 11-7 shift as the ER docs getting off at 11 thought they were doing us a favor "slow dripping" the Narcan on OD trauma patients (usually lost a fight and had baseball bat head trauma). About the time they were on the CT gantry, the PCP patients would "come alive" with unbelievable strength, busting their restraints like they were paper. We would request "leave the sedation" until AFTER the CT ;):confused:
 
Chip Sylverne said:
After reading through some of the denial threads, specifically the tattoo guy, is it really too much of a stretch to think some AME or OKC bureaucrat will see the insurance record, think that if you need narcan you either have a history of or associate with drug abusers and therefore need a HIMS eval just to be on the "safe side"?

I'm not so sure. I wouldn't risk it.
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not advocating what the OP wants to do...i think he's opening himself up for trouble...but since no Rx Is needed so if one pays cash there is no insurance record.
 
I don't want to sound like I'm getting frustrated... but I'd like to do without the lecturing of whether I should or shouldn't have it. I know how Naloxone works and how Opioids can cause addiction in people without chronic pain. I know how Opioids bind to Opioid receptors throughout the body, especially GABA neurons which act as inhibitor which reduces activity of other neurons, especially dopamine and since GABA has opioid receptors opioids bind to GABA and stop it from working allowing massive amounts of dopamine to be maade and released. I know how prolonged used of opioids cause the body to make more cAMP due to it wanting to self regulate so when someone takes an opioid cAMP levels drop from their higher level to a lower level to result in homeostasis. I know when administring naloxone to provide oxygen before admistring since if you don't it could result in more aggression. I know how naloxone is more more receptive to binding to opioid receptors immidately pushes out other opioids but doesn't cause Gαi/o of opioid receptor to move and.

Please I don't need the educating. I just need an answer to my original question.

Thank you
 
TheOpioidReverser said:
I don't want to sound like I'm getting frustrated... but I'd like to do without the lecturing of whether I should or shouldn't have it. I know how Naloxone works and how Opioids can cause addiction in people without chronic pain. I know how Opioids bind to Opioid receptors throughout the body, especially GABA neurons which act as inhibitor which reduces activity of other neurons, especially dopamine and since GABA has opioid receptors opioids bind to GABA and stop it from working allowing massive amounts of dopamine to be maade and released. I know how prolonged used of opioids cause the body to make more cAMP due to it wanting to self regulate so when someone takes an opioid cAMP levels drop from their higher level to a lower level to result in homeostasis. I know when administring naloxone to provide oxygen before admistring since if you don't it could result in more aggression. I know how naloxone is more more receptive to binding to opioid receptors immidately pushes out other opioids but doesn't cause Gαi/o of opioid receptor to move and.

Please I don't need the educating. I just need an answer to my original question.

Thank you
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This says about all I need to read. Do what you want, but stay away from me and my family/friends.
 
TheOpioidReverser said:
I don't want to sound like I'm getting frustrated... but I'd like to do without the lecturing of whether I should or shouldn't have it. I know how Naloxone works and how Opioids can cause addiction in people without chronic pain. I know how Opioids bind to Opioid receptors throughout the body, especially GABA neurons which act as inhibitor which reduces activity of other neurons, especially dopamine and since GABA has opioid receptors opioids bind to GABA and stop it from working allowing massive amounts of dopamine to be maade and released. I know how prolonged used of opioids cause the body to make more cAMP due to it wanting to self regulate so when someone takes an opioid cAMP levels drop from their higher level to a lower level to result in homeostasis. I know when administring naloxone to provide oxygen before admistring since if you don't it could result in more aggression. I know how naloxone is more more receptive to binding to opioid receptors immidately pushes out other opioids but doesn't cause Gαi/o of opioid receptor to move and.

Please I don't need the educating. I just need an answer to my original question.

Thank you
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which, i believe, you have received. no Rx needed, in most states, and if you pay cash then none's the wiser.
 
Well this got heated pretty quickly. I don't think OP is driving around looking for a reason to use narcan. Maybe if they are in a parking lot or whatever and they see someone overdosing or someone announces it they'd like to use it rather than let the person possibly die. A quick Google showed that most if not all states have Good Samaritan Laws protecting narcan administers. If OP lives in Philly I doubt they're driving around Kensington just waiting to be the hero with a cape.

Then again I'd rather not possibly have someone who is administered immiadetly come up and possibly whack me or injure me because I stopped their high. OP can do what they want I'm not one to tell them whether they should or should not carry narcan
 
Kind of comes down to what’s the worst that can happen. On the one hand is an FAA expedition resulting in an emergency revocation, but no co-pay.

On the other, it’s some amount of out-of-pocket cash expense that’s never covered and never gets used.

If I had to put any thought to it, the path of least resistance is the path the FAA can’t investigate.
 
MyDimeIsUp said:
Well this got heated pretty quickly. I don't think OP is driving around looking for a reason to use narcan. Maybe if they are in a parking lot or whatever and they see someone overdosing or someone announces it they'd like to use it rather than let the person possibly die. A quick Google showed that most if not all states have Good Samaritan Laws protecting narcan administers. If OP lives in Philly I doubt they're driving around Kensington just waiting to be the hero with a cape.

Then again I'd rather not possibly have someone who is administered immiadetly come up and possibly whack me or injure me because I stopped their high. OP can do what they want I'm not one to tell them whether they should or should not carry narcan
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what you believe isn’t the case is exactly what I believe is the case.

I see someone ordering superhero gear on another browser tab as I type this.
 
Rgbeard said:
what you believe isn’t the case is exactly what I believe is the case.

I see someone ordering superhero gear on another browser tab as I type this.
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Thats true. I can't speak to what OP is thinking or wanting to do, I just like to believe there is more good than evil/bad in the world and that they truly want to help. Maybe as I spend more time on this place called earth that will change
 
TheOpioidReverser said:
I don't want to sound like I'm getting frustrated... but I'd like to do without the lecturing of whether I should or shouldn't have it. I know how Naloxone works and how Opioids can cause addiction in people without chronic pain. I know how Opioids bind to Opioid receptors throughout the body, especially GABA neurons which act as inhibitor which reduces activity of other neurons, especially dopamine and since GABA has opioid receptors opioids bind to GABA and stop it from working allowing massive amounts of dopamine to be maade and released. I know how prolonged used of opioids cause the body to make more cAMP due to it wanting to self regulate so when someone takes an opioid cAMP levels drop from their higher level to a lower level to result in homeostasis. I know when administring naloxone to provide oxygen before admistring since if you don't it could result in more aggression. I know how naloxone is more more receptive to binding to opioid receptors immidately pushes out other opioids but doesn't cause Gαi/o of opioid receptor to move and.

Please I don't need the educating. I just need an answer to my original question.

Thank you
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OK - then isn’t what you’re wanting to do insurance fraud? Your insurance is for YOU - not your adult kids and certainly not some (as yet unidentified) stranger.

Help me see how it’s not fraud, despite the best of intentions. If it’s important to you, then pay it out of pocket and don’t pass the cost to your insurer.

The FAA question seems moot to me.
 
Many of you smart folks pointed out what can go wrong with the application of narcan. Of course the alternative is death. Which is pretty bad. Every CPR training I've ever been to they point out that you shouldn't not do it because you're worried about not doing it correctly, because if you're doing CPR on someone they're already dead otherwise, and you're not gonna make their situation any worse. If someone is ODing, providing narcan is not going to make the situation worse. Even if you're not properly trained.
 
Somebody randomly carrying Narcan around "just in case" sounds like someone with "hero" syndrome, a person that wanted to be a cop or firefighter but never quite made it.

You carry an Epi too?
 
Lindberg said:
Many of you smart folks pointed out what can go wrong with the application of narcan. Of course the alternative is death. Which is pretty bad. Every CPR training I've ever been to they point out that you shouldn't not do it because you're worried about not doing it correctly, because if you're doing CPR on someone they're already dead otherwise, and you're not gonna make their situation any worse. If someone is ODing, providing narcan is not going to make the situation worse. Even if you're not properly trained.
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While I agree, it must be pointed out that dying from an opioid overdose is usually from respiratory suppression, which can be managed with CPR (especially ventilation) until competent people with Narcan arrive. It’s more practical to carry a CPR mask than Narcan for a layperson
 
midwestpa24 said:
Somebody randomly carrying Narcan around "just in case" sounds like someone with "hero" syndrome, a person that wanted to be a cop or firefighter but never quite made it.

You carry an Epi too?
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I carry a CPR mask and a full first-aid kit in my car. I've used it too. Carry one when I bike also. Used it a couple weeks ago. Carrying stuff "just in case" is called "being prepared." 50,000 people die of opioid overdoses annually in this country. How many more OD and are saved?
 
Llewtrah381 said:
While I agree, it must be pointed out that dying from an opioid overdose is usually from respiratory suppression, which can be managed with CPR (especially ventilation) until competent people with Narcan arrive. It’s more practical to carry a CPR mask than Narcan for a layperson
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Is there some reason to not carry both?
 
Lindberg said:
Is there some reason to not carry both?
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Sure - that’s fine. But medically, I’m not sure there’d be a huge difference in survival/outcome between doing CPR with a focus on respiratory support and calling 911 ASAP and doing that plus adding Narcan.

By contrast, incidentally, I’d say having an epi pen for anaphylaxis would make more sense than Narcan for opioid overdose: there really isn’t a substitute for epi to treat anaphylaxis unlike options for opioid overdose
 
Llewtrah381 said:
Sure - that’s fine. But medically, I’m not sure there’d be a huge difference in survival/outcome between doing CPR with a focus on respiratory support and calling 911 ASAP and doing that plus adding Narcan.

By contrast, incidentally, I’d say having an epi pen for anaphylaxis would make more sense than Narcan for opioid overdose: there really isn’t a substitute for epi to treat anaphylaxis unlike options for opioid overdose
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99% of lay rescuers are unwilling/unable to manage the airway and bag an overdose patient until EMS arrives. Agree on epi-pens; schools finally have access to them which is good because it’s typically the school aged child who discovers they have a severe allergy to something that results in anaphylaxis.
 
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