NA: Water softener or no?

Get a water softener?

  • Yes! Worth it- easy upkeep

    Votes: 23 74.2%

  • Yes - worth it but it’s done upkeep

    Votes: 3 9.7%

  • No - too much work

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • No not worth it

    Votes: 5 16.1%
  • Total voters
    31
Huckster79

Huckster79

Pattern Altitude
Joined
Nov 22, 2018
Messages
2,395
Display Name
Display name:
Huckster79
Doing some major remodeling so the house fits the brides to be kiddos in addition to mine. During this I’m going to run all new drains and pex supply every where before hanging drywall in the basement, so I’m not boxing in old inadequate plumbing supply. Also buying all new fixtures and major appliances…

Our water is hard! I’m in town but that makes no difference it’s calcium laden.

I’v never had a softener - should I install one? How much hassle and upkeep are they?
 
Huckster79 said:
Doing some major remodeling so the house fits the brides to be kiddos in addition to mine. During this I’m going to run all new drains and pex supply every where before hanging drywall in the basement, so I’m not boxing in old inadequate plumbing supply. Also buying all new fixtures and major appliances…

Our water is hard! I’m in town but that makes no difference it’s calcium laden.

I’v never had a softener - should I install one? How much hassle and upkeep are they?
Click to expand...
Mine has just gone on the fritz but that's the first time in 15 years. Just replenish with salt.
 
They're pretty low maintenance. The amount of salt you get to tote depends on the hardness of your water. We have a fair bit of iron, which is hard to remove, so we go through maybe 100lbs/mo.

It makes soap work much better on the shower, laundry, and dishwasher. You get spoiled by it and really notice when you shower in a hotel with hard water... or when you neglected to refill the salt bin. It's a very noticeable difference. Also nice not to have the crusties on your faucets & shower head, I'm sure it's doing the same thing inside your water heater.

If you're a houseplant person, the salt builds up in the soil over time and is bad for them. You can install a tap before the softener, or just buy DI water at wally-world.
 
Last edited:
+1 to get a water softner.

We run the entire house on soft water. Then run the soft water through reverse osmosis for fridge water/ice and another spiggot by the sink to fill pans. Outside faucets and sprinkler system are all hard water. I also added a large sink in the garage with both hot and cold soft water. Great for washing cars and rinsing stuff with no water spots. We have PEX everywhere except the RO water which uses RO tubing. For high flow stuff...the sprinkler system...the plumber did all single runs with large arcs vs elbows which makes for very quiet operation. Some people like copper for the RO water as it gives that copper flavor taint they grew up with.
 
We replace our 1980s vintage water softener with a new Morton a couple years ago. I am shocked at how much less salt it uses than the old one. I buy salt once or twice a year at most. Makes a big difference, and it’s worth every penny. Maintenance and upkeep are negligible…. Just add salt once in a while.
 
No brainer. Better tasting water, clearer ice, no build up on pipes /faucets/ toilets, cleaner clothes, and less soap scum in the showers. Use liquid soaps in the shower and cleaning about nonexistent.
 
Ugh. I hate softened water. Tastes awful. I yanked mine out when I bought the house, and just dip fixtures in CLR once in a while. Just calcium and lime where I am, no iron thankfully.
 
Skip RO, unless you work in a lab needing pure water it is not worth the wastage anymore.
Get a multi-stage under cabinet water filter for the kitchen, a whole house water softener, and consider hose attached filter or mineral filter for garden and irrigation systems.
Most common water softeners use salt, which makes it easy to use cheap water filters to remove mineral content, otherwise you need more expensive and complete systems.
For your garden or irrigation get your soil tested, the salt from most water softeners is bad for the soil, depending on where you live the high levels of minerals in water can be an issue for plants (makes absorbtion difficult for the plants if to high). If minerals not too high for the soil, split off the outside taps before the water softener, leave access panels to replace faucets due to higher mineral buildups.

Actually if possible, leave access panels for all plumbing fixtures. This can save you a lot of grief later.

Lastly if not to late, never run plumbing on exterior walls, and try and put all plumbing on one side/part of the house. Easier to fix if not spread out everywhere.
Further the horizontal lines are more likely to have buildup and pin leaks, so minimizing cross building flows reduces potential complications.

Tim



Sent from my HD1907 using Tapatalk
 
There was one here when we bought this place. It used an insane amount of salt. We bypassed it and the water quality improved so we removed it. Water is fine without it. If your water is hard, they work but you will notice the water feels slimy. I think most people really don't need one but the water quality report will tell you if one is necessary.
 
I’m struggling with this. We have extremely hard water and the mineral buildup is relentless on fixtures or anything that water evaporates from; fixtures, dishes, car windshield unless you immediately squeegee and hand dry, shower stall, towels, even my hair. I have to use EDTA on my hair (the stuff they use to descale boiler pipes).

But I hate softened water, I cannot stand the slimy feeling that I can’t rinse all the soap off when I shower or wash my hands. And I heard that the normal salt softeners can damage some types of pipes or tubing and isn’t healthy to drink. I read that there are systems that treat the water differently that address these issues but they are expensive. Not sure what we will end up doing, depends if we stay here after retirement or move back east.
 
It depends on your water. Typical softeners don’t remove iron, they remove calcium. Iron is a different process. Where I am in AK we prefer conditioning and I go through about 4 bags of salt a year. Our water in TX has sodium. We use reverse osmosis for drinking water there.
 
I'm not a fan of overly softened water, as I feel like I can never get the soap off in the shower. I like to be "squeaky" clean, otherwise I don't feel clean.
 
Stewartb said:
It depends on your water. Typical softeners don’t remove iron, they remove calcium. Iron is a different process. Where I am in AK we prefer conditioning and I go through about 4 bags of salt a year. Our water in TX has sodium. We use reverse osmosis for drinking water there.
Click to expand...
Calcium and magnesium are the two minerals water softeners are really good at removing, and it doesn't take that much salt to do so. They will remove iron, just not very efficiently, and it takes a lot of salt.

Your water report will show "grains hardness". This number is now you size and set your softener. There is a conversion factor to convert Iron ppm to grains, which will end up being an order of magnitude more than the ca/mg number. In this area our Iron is pretty close to the limit of what a softener can do, but it will do it if you're willing to pay for the salt. Of course the alternative is orange plumbing fixtures and chewy water.

Personally I don't feel clean unless I have that "slimy feeling" water. When I shower in hard water it feels like someone wrapped the soap bar with sandpaper. I guess it's just another thing that you prefer what you're used to.
 
Stewartb said:
It depends on your water. Typical softeners don’t remove iron, they remove calcium. Iron is a different process. Where I am in AK we prefer conditioning and I go through about 4 bags of salt a year. Our water in TX has sodium. We use reverse osmosis for drinking water there.
Click to expand...
They may not remove iron, I dunno, but I do know before I installed my softener our whites were rust colored and now they aren’t.
 
that slime feeling takes getting used to...but once I did I realized just how much easier it is to rinse off with soft water. That's what water is supposed to feel like
I did mine as a DIY, ordered online about 11-12 years ago. I've done nothing but add a couple bags of salt now and then when i think about it. I did clean out the salt tank a few times...that salt carries a lot of dirt...but it's a non-issue really. I'm firmly in the "like it" camp.
 
Thanks everyone!

Yea mines all calcium, irons not crazy stupid, so sounds like I’m gunna do it. We need a big beast! With our hardness and 9 ppl it calculates to need 80,000 grain unit.

I was already thinking of running a hot water spigot outside in addition to a normal cold, I think I’ll do that and have hot conditioned outside for washing and a cold for watering…

thanks for the input, googling was hard as it was all articles by softener or RO companies…
 
Last edited:
There's nothin' to running a softener. I've had one in my homes for most of my life and have had a problem only one time that I can recall. Add salt as needed, and clean the salt tank every once in a while. Go for it.
 
If you’r sensitive to sodium, and conditioners really don’t add much to your water, potassium salt is readily available and works equally well.

We plumbed our outside hose bibs so they aren’t conditioned. My lawn doesn’t need conditioned water.
 
Salty said:
They may not remove iron, I dunno, but I do know before I installed my softener our whites were rust colored and now they aren’t.
Click to expand...

That’s another thing, all my whites are ruined after a while. Unless I think of them as muddy beige.
 
Having lived with one for a dozen or so years, I'd say they are very low maintenance. There are a couple of things you should do to allow them to do their job the best. They run a regeneration cycle to recharge the salt ions. This is based on a timer (at least in the old days...) and set to run at night. Usually around 1-2 AM. When it is regenerating, it is in bypass mode so any water you use will come through untreated. So, the lifelong family friend and softener installer told me: get in the habit of not flushing the toilet if you use it during the night. It'll draw unsoftened water into the pipes and then you'll have unsoftened water for a bit. Also, check the timer from time to time to make sure it hasn't wandered (power outages mostly) until it's regenerating during the day. Same issue, water will flow but it'll be untreated. Modern systems may use internet based clocks for all i know. This was in the early 90's.

All that said, you will learn to use much less soap. And in the entire 12 years we lived there with the softener, I had to replace a couple of plastic gears once. Other than adding salt, that was it.

John
 
jsstevens said:
They run a regeneration cycle to recharge the salt ions. This is based on a timer (at least in the old days...) and set to run at night. Usually around 1-2 AM.
Click to expand...
Our old one (1980s vintage) was on a timer. The new one is all microprocessor controlled. We set the hardness level in grains via a menu; it knows its capacity and has a flow meter to determine when it needs to recharge. It's SO much more efficient in its salt use that it's probably mostly paid for itself already just in bags of salt we haven't needed to buy. I'll check the salt level occasionally and think it's stopped working, but it hasn't.
 
We have had an American Water Softener for 22 years, and have had it rebuilt once... they needed to change out the resin the the tank and rebuilt the control head while they were at it the total was $300. The guy doing the work for us noted to use the rock salt, not the pellets, and the next time it goes down to get one of the newer units.. the prices have come way down, and they are more efficient.
 
YOU REALLY SHOULD NOT BE DRINKING SOFTENED WATER.

Yes I'm screaming. If you run it through an RO, fine. If install at tap at the sink before the softening system, fine. The salt level is unhealthy.

Personally I can't stand showering or washing with softened water because it feels like the soap won't wash off no matter what I do. Also, softened water is generally more aggressive than hard water, and that can be a problem if you have copper pipes.
 
Sac Arrow said:
YOU REALLY SHOULD NOT BE DRINKING SOFTENED WATER.

Yes I'm screaming. If you run it through an RO, fine. If install at tap at the sink before the softening system, fine. The salt level is unhealthy.

Personally I can't stand showering or washing with softened water because it feels like the soap won't wash off no matter what I do. Also, softened water is generally more aggressive than hard water, and that can be a problem if you have copper pipes.
Click to expand...

I always thought that. And the calcium and magnesium and even iron in hard water are actually good for you. But I don’t know if the amounts are high enough to make a difference or if the salt in soft water is enough to be a problem.
 
Newer conditioners add so little sodium it’s insignificant. If it bothers you use potassium salt. Wife and I used potassium salt for 20 years in the last house. This house we added a conditioner and are using salt. Can’t tell any difference. The newer conditioner is FAR more efficient.

We got our first water conditioner at the same time our neighbor did, right after he had kidney stones and his doc told him to get a water conditioner to reduce mineral intake.
 
Rushie said:
I always thought that. And the calcium and magnesium and even iron in hard water are actually good for you. But I don’t know if the amounts are high enough to make a difference or if the salt in soft water is enough to be a problem.
Click to expand...

I guess the best way to answer that is to tell you that if the amounts are high enough to make a difference, then there will probably be enough salt to be a problem. But, for the people that put salt on everything they eat including processed food that is heavily salted to begin with, I suppose it wouldn't matter too much.
 
Huckster79 said:
Thanks everyone!

Yea mines all calcium, irons not crazy stupid, so sounds like I’m gunna do it. We need a big beast! With our hardness and 9 ppl it calculates to need 80,000 grain unit.

I was already thinking of running a hot water spigot outside in addition to a normal cold, I think I’ll do that and have hot conditioned outside for washing and a cold for watering…

thanks for the input, googling was hard as it was all articles by softener or RO companies…
Click to expand...

With a larger unit you get a larger resin tank and a larger salt tank. A small unit will softner water as well as a large unit, it will just regenerate less often and hold more salt. If you don’t use a lot of water the medium units work well.
 
The dorms at OU had really soft water and showering was just slimy and gross, lol. I wouldn't mind running a water softener, but I'd have it set so that it didn't soften the water to the point of being slimy.
 
Joe_B1 said:
There was one here when we bought this place. It used an insane amount of salt. We bypassed it and the water quality improved so we removed it. Water is fine without it. If your water is hard, they work but you will notice the water feels slimy. I think most people really don't need one but the water quality report will tell you if one is necessary.
Click to expand...
Every water softener I have ever owned (about 6 over the past 40 years due to moving) has had adjustments as to how much salt it uses and how often. I use about 1 (40#) bag every 2 months or so.
And that "slimy" feeling you feel; that is your skin, without all the calcium sticking to it. After a while, you get used to not having that feeling and then you hate when you wash with hard water. My wife can tell immediately when the salt runs out because her hair feels awful when she washes it with hard water.
 
Rushie said:
I always thought that. And the calcium and magnesium and even iron in hard water are actually good for you. But I don’t know if the amounts are high enough to make a difference or if the salt in soft water is enough to be a problem.
Click to expand...

Sac Arrow said:
I guess the best way to answer that is to tell you that if the amounts are high enough to make a difference, then there will probably be enough salt to be a problem. But, for the people that put salt on everything they eat including processed food that is heavily salted to begin with, I suppose it wouldn't matter too much.
Click to expand...

The amount of salt added to even extremely hard water is about like eating one of those baby pickles per day. If one feels that adding a baby pickle to their daily diet is detrimental to their health, then avoid getting a softener or add an RO unit to the drinking water tap. There is likely 2-3 times as much salt a single slice of ham than what a softener will add to a day's worth of drinking water.

I'm not an expert, but this is my understanding.
 
Agree with Andrew. My problem is the the in/out connections on the back of the softeners is industry standard to be in on the left side and out on the right as you look at the softener from the front. My house loop has the in on the right and the out on the left meaning I have to adapt with stainless hoses that cross each other. I wish someone made a unit that had in on the right and out on the left. If anyone knows of an adapter or a softener with reversed connections I'd really like to know. My softener is 20 years old and needs replaced.
 
OkieFlyer said:
The amount of salt added to even extremely hard water is about like eating one of those baby pickles per day. If one feels that adding a baby pickle to their daily diet is detrimental to their health, then avoid getting a softener or add an RO unit to the drinking water tap. There is likely 2-3 times as much salt a single slice of ham than what a softener will add to a day's worth of drinking water.

I'm not an expert, but this is my understanding.
Click to expand...

The FDA recommendations for daily sodium intake is 2,300 mg. Sounds like a lot, but...

Let's say you have moderately hard water, e.g. total hardness of 120 mg/L as CaCO3, and you soften it to say, 10 mg/L. In very round numbers, there is about a 50% sodium replacement to the hardness removed, so you've added about 55 mg/L of sodium. So, 11 gallons and you're there.

I know. Who drinks eleven gallons right? Well add in those pickles, and those hotdogs, and the fact that you're probably already consuming an average of 3,400 mg/d of sodium without consideration of your softener, and those 1-2 gallons are going to start to make a difference. Double the hardness, the problem is twice as bad. Halve it, and you probably don't need to soften anyway.
 
I added a water softener when remodeling our 100 year-old home in San Antonio in 2018. Water hardness dropped from 500+ ppm to about zero. People warned us that our plumbing would come apart at the joints. Utter nonsense. Others said we really had to spend over $5,000 with a major company to get it done right. Also nonsense. The latest technologies from big box home improvement stores are automated, simple, easy, and almost maintenance-free.

We don't feel any sliminess. We have never tasted salt. The Westinghouse unit from Lowes cost about $600 and was minimal installation as a part of the remodel. I use a rinse bottle 3x per year as specified to extend the warranty. Salt bags are cheap. We used to soak all our faucets and spray heads in Lime-a-Way every few months. Don't need to do that now. We use far less soap and detergent. Some appliances need fewer repairs (dw pumps rarely lasted more than 2 years for us). Glassware has no spots. And we no longer have to replace our Keurig every 18 months from lime buildup. Just make sure your irrigation system and hose bibs remain hard water or you'll have higher salt and maintenance costs.

My only regret is that we didn't install a water softener decades ago.
 
dfw11411 said:
I added a water softener when remodeling our 100 year-old home in San Antonio in 2018. Water hardness dropped from 500+ ppm to about zero. People warned us that our plumbing would come apart at the joints. Utter nonsense. Others said we really had to spend over $5,000 with a major company to get it done right. Also nonsense. The latest technologies from big box home improvement stores are automated, simple, easy, and almost maintenance-free.

We don't feel any sliminess. We have never tasted salt. The Westinghouse unit from Lowes cost about $600 and was minimal installation as a part of the remodel. I use a rinse bottle 3x per year as specified to extend the warranty. Salt bags are cheap. We used to soak all our faucets and spray heads in Lime-a-Way every few months. Don't need to do that now. We use far less soap and detergent. Some appliances need fewer repairs (dw pumps rarely lasted more than 2 years for us). Glassware has no spots. And we no longer have to replace our Keurig every 18 months from lime buildup. Just make sure your irrigation system and hose bibs remain hard water or you'll have higher salt and maintenance costs.

My only regret is that we didn't install a water softener decades ago.
Click to expand...

Not slimy? I’m going to look into this.
 
Rushie said:
Not slimy? I’m going to look into this.
Click to expand...
It's not the soft water that makes you feel slimy. It is the calcium and minerals in your skin from the hard water that causes. These are the same minerals that cause that yucky bathtub ring. The salt binds with that crud and removes it. That is why you won't have a bathtub ring with soft water. After a while, all the crud is flushed from you skin and you lose the slimy feeling. It really doesn't take long.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top