NA thinking about a Scout

[MIFlyer]

So, our current stable includes a BMW i3 and a 2010 Ford F350 Powerstroke diesel. I like the constant worry about engine issues that I get with the international motor, but am disappointed in the overall chassis being quiet, roomy, comfortable and safe.

I feel like the smart decision would be to transition from the truck into a vehicle that still enjoys the orphaned status of my current 6.4 powerstroke, but gets rid of the quiet, comfortable car that surrounds it, to replace it with something that drifts in the road ruts, leaks water into the cab and is much noisier.

For reference, our normal pulling load is our 1973 Airstream Ambassador (29', 5,500lb loaded) otherwise this is my daily driver (15 miles each way to work). We will have a train coming to our town in two years, so I anticipate that when that happens, I'll drive to work 2x per week and the other 3 days, drive 2 miles from my house to the train station, which is just horrible for a diesel.

I daily drove a Scout 2 for 8 years in the past, so while the memory is a little distant, I have lived with it in the past.

What I think I want
- as close to stock as possible scout 2 with a v8, manual transmission, bucket seats
- stock ride height but new bushings/springs/shocks
- tractor idle/exhaust sounds
- Front winch bumper
- somewhere between passable paint and nice paint. I can't quite decide if I want a really shiny one, or a just OK driver
- steering upgrades to make it a decent freeway rig
- high gears (low ratio) to make it a good travel rig. I had 2.73 on my last one with a 300K mile original 345 and still had plenty of torque. this brought the 75MPH RPMs down to 2,500 which is as high as I'd want that engine to turn for hours on end.
- front disc brakes (73 and later)

Potential things
- Possibly add manually adjustable air suspension in rear for the odd towing chore instead of putting stiff leaf springs in
- Possibly throw the $1,500 package form the guy up the road in Oak harbor that gets you new distributor and throttle body fuel injection (plus pump/computer/etc). Looks like a weekend to install and would get you out of chasing carb tuning. may also pick up 1-2 mpg and would reduce fumes. I don't think it would affect the sound.
- possibly initially, or later, go to a slightly modded 392 (which would put me back in a 6.4, incidentally) instead of the stock 345. I want to keep the loping, barely turning idle sound though, so need to be careful with this. I'm thinking maybe light porting, light cam and spring upgrades.
- possibly invest in a bikini top to wear during the summer and run the hard top during the 8 month "winter"
Pros/cons/thoughts/mitigation
- towing will be less. I think this can be mitigated by using a Propride hitch setup
- it will be noisier going down the road
- it will not be as good for long trips (a few a year)
- less passenger safety (no airbags, shoulder belts/etc)
- I have to get a utility trailer again for hauling bark/mulch/etc
- If I sold the truck to get this, I'd pocket quite a bit of cash
- truck is worth high 20's. scout can be had from $6k driveable and decent to 23k cherry restored so i'm pocketing some money
- I could decide to get a cheap/temporary daily driver if keepgint he scout up is too much (buy a $3k old Subaru or honda or something for some drives)
- the scout will be easier to take into the city than the truck due to height and length. (think parking garages when you go to the hospital/etc)

 

[SoonerAviator]

This might be a good time to just buy the Scout and drive it for a few months before selling the F-350. Simply because you may find that the idea of daily driving a Scout was nicer than actually doing so. I didn't mind driving the '65 Vette to work on a nice Friday, but with poor headlights (compared to modern) and sloppy manual steering/brakes made it something I wouldn't want to drive daily. Sure, I could have resto-modded it and added big power disc brakes and power steering. I could have added A/C or fuel injection to the 327, but I liked it as a "sunny day" car. I'd just buy the Scout and find a more suitable used car to daily drive, if it were me.

 

[Ted]

One other option that you have would be keeping the F-350 and then also getting another vehicle that is uncomfortable for daily use, like the Scout. That gives you the freedom to make more compromises as far as comfort, safety, security go to make it more fun, and then when you tow the trailer you still have the F-350 that does that well. I find that I love my Ram when towing, the rest of the time I like it.

More thoughts later after I now fix the flat tire on my Ram...

 

[MIFlyer]

This might be a good time to just buy the Scout and drive it for a few months before selling the F-350. Simply because you may find that the idea of daily driving a Scout was nicer than actually doing so. I didn't mind driving the '65 Vette to work on a nice Friday, but with poor headlights (compared to modern) and sloppy manual steering/brakes made it something I wouldn't want to drive daily. Sure, I could have resto-modded it and added big power disc brakes and power steering. I could have added A/C or fuel injection to the 327, but I liked it as a "sunny day" car. I'd just buy the Scout and find a more suitable used car to daily drive, if it were me.

that's the right answer if money is no object. I think you're right that just buying it and driving it when you want, and then see how often you end up driving it. You'd quickly (in a month or two) find out if you're evenly splitting, or almost exclusively preferring one or the other.

This is also harder depending on if I start with a driver for $6k or a fully restored one in the 20's. if it's going to be a sunday only car, the 6k one is fine, but if it's going to be my main car then spending more upfront to get one with a lot of the work done makes more sense.

 

[Bill]

Calling @cowman , Jamie, didn't you just go through upgrading/remaning an old Scout?

 

[SoonerAviator]

that's the right answer if money is no object. I think you're right that just buying it and driving it when you want, and then see how often you end up driving it. You'd quickly (in a month or two) find out if you're evenly splitting, or almost exclusively preferring one or the other.

This is also harder depending on if I start with a driver for $6k or a fully restored one in the 20's. if it's going to be a sunday only car, the 6k one is fine, but if it's going to be my main car then spending more upfront to get one with a lot of the work done makes more sense.

It's not so much a "money is no object option", I just figure $6K is cheap enough to experiment with the idea, then sell it for what you paid for it if you decide you don't like it with little to no repair/restoration money spent. If you decide you DO like it, you can begin restoration on what you bought or find a nicer example and buy that one (while selling the F-350 and initial $6K Scout). I'd just hate to get rid of a perfectly good truck to entertain an idea of driving around a rugged classic if the idea didn't pan out. Finding a well kept diesel truck that you can trust the maintenance history on can be almost as tough as finding a Scout that isn't riddled with rust and suspension issues.

 

[Ted]

A few things to think about with your F-350.

It's got it emissions deletes as I recall. This means that 1) It's in high demand for people who wanted deleted trucks 2) It's a target for the EPA.

I'm seeing this in the Ram world. The EPA has gone after tuners very heavily. Some people are still doing it, but at this point it's all black market other than the grid heater delete. The EPA has announced that they're going to start making going after owners and converted trucks a priority.

Here in Kansas, I really don't see this being too big of a problem. Nobody here seems to care. I don't know what it's like where you are, but people will pay a premium for a deleted truck (if that's what they want) and it may become a liability for you in the future.

The idea of having a good quality, well sorted older vehicle as a daily driver isn't a bad one at all. I used to drive an '82 Jaguar XJ-S (I bought it when it was 19 years old) as a daily driver. I sorted it out and it never let me down. These things weren't unreliable when they were new (at least not as much so as we like to think they were) and they're easy to fix. That said, sorting one out does take some time and dedication. Buying a sorted one saves time, but you'll inevitably find it different from what you want and then make changes to it.

Another option would be ditching the diesel F-350 and trading it for a 6.2 gasser. That's a good engine and without the various emissions concerns that your F-350 has.

 

[MIFlyer]

It's not so much a "money is no object option", I just figure $6K is cheap enough to experiment with the idea, then sell it for what you paid for it if you decide you don't like it with little to no repair/restoration money spent. If you decide you DO like it, you can begin restoration on what you bought or find a nicer example and buy that one (while selling the F-350 and initial $6K Scout). I'd just hate to get rid of a perfectly good truck to entertain an idea of driving around a rugged classic if the idea didn't pan out. Finding a well kept diesel truck that you can trust the maintenance history on can be almost as tough as finding a Scout that isn't riddled with rust and suspension issues.

ooh. that is interesting. yeah, buy the cheap driver, knowing it's likely to be sold, so don't go improving it until you're sure you're staying with a scout, and sure that this is the right scout to start with.

 

[MIFlyer]

A few things to think about with your F-350.

It's got it emissions deletes as I recall. This means that 1) It's in high demand for people who wanted deleted trucks 2) It's a target for the EPA.

I'm seeing this in the Ram world. The EPA has gone after tuners very heavily. Some people are still doing it, but at this point it's all black market other than the grid heater delete. The EPA has announced that they're going to start making going after owners and converted trucks a priority.

Here in Kansas, I really don't see this being too big of a problem. Nobody here seems to care. I don't know what it's like where you are, but people will pay a premium for a deleted truck (if that's what they want) and it may become a liability for you in the future.

The idea of having a good quality, well sorted older vehicle as a daily driver isn't a bad one at all. I used to drive an '82 Jaguar XJ-S (I bought it when it was 19 years old) as a daily driver. I sorted it out and it never let me down. These things weren't unreliable when they were new (at least not as much so as we like to think they were) and they're easy to fix. That said, sorting one out does take some time and dedication. Buying a sorted one saves time, but you'll inevitably find it different from what you want and then make changes to it.

Another option would be ditching the diesel F-350 and trading it for a 6.2 gasser. That's a good engine and without the various emissions concerns that your F-350 has.

I hadn't heard that they were going after individuals. We don't have emissions testing in Washington, so it would only be an issue if you did something stupid like rolling coal. The smart owners I know have their tuners set to minimum initial fueling to reduce this pretty significantly, but if someone was driving a deleted truck, this could still bite them if they're having to lay on the throttle before the boost comes up to merge on the freeway or something.

The wife *hates* trucks, but is surprisingly open to the coolness of a scout. up here, trucks have stigma as "compensation" machines and gather a good bit of ridicule.

I agree on the reliability. I had two failures to go where/when I wanted in 8 years of ownership. 1 was a dead starter activator (fixed by whcking with broom handle until I got a new one ordered and installed). 1 was a bolt head from the ring gear going through the ring and pinion. that was a flatbed tow home. other than that, it was just constantly keeping tune from drifting, chasing little leaks, bad grounds, etc.

I think a straight body with updated wiring and the fuel injection+electronic ignition would do wonders for that to you're not constantly trying to find the right mixture. (my carb and disty were relatively new on my old scout, but there wasn't much compression left, so it had to be tuned right on to do well. AND, I never set up the vacuum advance right, so it would over advance and ping under high acceleration)

 

[Ted]

I hadn't heard that they were going after individuals. We don't have emissions testing in Washington, so it would only be an issue if you did something stupid like rolling coal. The smart owners I know have their tuners set to minimum initial fueling to reduce this pretty significantly, but if someone was driving a deleted truck, this could still bite them if they're having to lay on the throttle before the boost comes up to merge on the freeway or something.

The EPA's release was pretty recent and they listed it as a 2020 initiative. Realistically going after individuals requires cooperation from the state, and specifically state and local authorities. If your state doesn't care, then you're probably going to be fine. But while rolling coal is the big thing that tips off that there's been a delete, the smell can be noticed even just from driving by. I was driving the GL550 the other day (you know, before my wife hit a deer with it) and there was a deleted truck that was obvious from smell.

Like I said, it's something to consider and I think it's going to get worse. Even on the Ram group where the #1 solution to a burned out headlight is to do an emissions delete, people are saying "If you do deletes, don't throw out the equipment - you're going to need to reinstall it one day."

Of course, deleting catalytic converters from gas powered cars has been illegal for decades. The only place I've heard of people getting ticketed for that was Virgina, but they're pretty draconian about vehicle regs.

 

[Sac Arrow]

The other thing you might consider is a similar era Dodge Ramcharger, which is a similar vehicle to the Scout (IH uses Dodge parts and drive train.)

 

[Fallsrider]

So, our current stable includes a BMW i3 and a 2010 Ford F350 Powerstroke diesel. I like the constant worry about engine issues that I get with the international motor, but am disappointed in the overall chassis being quiet, roomy, comfortable and safe.

I feel like the smart decision would be to transition from the truck into a vehicle that still enjoys the orphaned status of my current 6.4 powerstroke, but gets rid of the quiet, comfortable car that surrounds it, to replace it with something that drifts in the road ruts, leaks water into the cab and is much noisier.

For reference, our normal pulling load is our 1973 Airstream Ambassador (29', 5,500lb loaded) otherwise this is my daily driver (15 miles each way to work). We will have a train coming to our town in two years, so I anticipate that when that happens, I'll drive to work 2x per week and the other 3 days, drive 2 miles from my house to the train station, which is just horrible for a diesel.

I daily drove a Scout 2 for 8 years in the past, so while the memory is a little distant, I have lived with it in the past.

What I think I want
- as close to stock as possible scout 2 with a v8, manual transmission, bucket seats
- stock ride height but new bushings/springs/shocks
- tractor idle/exhaust sounds
- Front winch bumper
- somewhere between passable paint and nice paint. I can't quite decide if I want a really shiny one, or a just OK driver
- steering upgrades to make it a decent freeway rig
- high gears (low ratio) to make it a good travel rig. I had 2.73 on my last one with a 300K mile original 345 and still had plenty of torque. this brought the 75MPH RPMs down to 2,500 which is as high as I'd want that engine to turn for hours on end.
- front disc brakes (73 and later)

Potential things
- Possibly add manually adjustable air suspension in rear for the odd towing chore instead of putting stiff leaf springs in
- Possibly throw the $1,500 package form the guy up the road in Oak harbor that gets you new distributor and throttle body fuel injection (plus pump/computer/etc). Looks like a weekend to install and would get you out of chasing carb tuning. may also pick up 1-2 mpg and would reduce fumes. I don't think it would affect the sound.
- possibly initially, or later, go to a slightly modded 392 (which would put me back in a 6.4, incidentally) instead of the stock 345. I want to keep the loping, barely turning idle sound though, so need to be careful with this. I'm thinking maybe light porting, light cam and spring upgrades.
- possibly invest in a bikini top to wear during the summer and run the hard top during the 8 month "winter"
Pros/cons/thoughts/mitigation
- towing will be less. I think this can be mitigated by using a Propride hitch setup
- it will be noisier going down the road
- it will not be as good for long trips (a few a year)
- less passenger safety (no airbags, shoulder belts/etc)
- I have to get a utility trailer again for hauling bark/mulch/etc
- If I sold the truck to get this, I'd pocket quite a bit of cash
- truck is worth high 20's. scout can be had from $6k driveable and decent to 23k cherry restored so i'm pocketing some money
- I could decide to get a cheap/temporary daily driver if keepgint he scout up is too much (buy a $3k old Subaru or honda or something for some drives)
- the scout will be easier to take into the city than the truck due to height and length. (think parking garages when you go to the hospital/etc)

That brings back some memories! My first vehicle when I got my driver's license was a '74 Scout II. I loved that SUV. The only problem was, I was a poor farmer with only a bus driving income, which wasn't much. That 345 got about 10 miles per gallon, and I just couldn't afford the trips to the gas pump with as much running around as I wanted to do with my friends. Had to sell it, but it sure was fun while I had it.

That 345 was one cold-natured engine. On a cold morning, I had to pump the gas pedal furiously while starting it, and keep pumping it for 3 or 4 minutes after the engine started to keep it running. It was crazy.

 

[cowman]

Calling @cowman , Jamie, didn't you just go through upgrading/remaning an old Scout?

Yes. Will post more when I’m home in front of a full PC

 

[MIFlyer]

That brings back some memories! My first vehicle when I got my driver's license was a '74 Scout II. I loved that SUV. The only problem was, I was a poor farmer with only a bus driving income, which wasn't much. That 345 got about 10 miles per gallon, and I just couldn't afford the trips to the gas pump with as much running around as I wanted to do with my friends. Had to sell it, but it sure was fun while I had it.

That 345 was one cold-natured engine. On a cold morning, I had to pump the gas pedal furiously while starting it, and keep pumping it for 3 or 4 minutes after the engine started to keep it running. It was crazy.

that's interesting. I'd get 17-19 on the highway in our 345, 4bbl, 4speed model and 10-12 around town. We didn't have any cold start issues either, I wonder if it was just a timing/carb adjustment thing. No blame here, there's a lot I know now that make me reflect on my previous choices with disdain, but now some of these things would be solvable with the application of what's now reasonable money. there's something about driving a scout...

 

[MIFlyer]

The EPA's release was pretty recent and they listed it as a 2020 initiative. Realistically going after individuals requires cooperation from the state, and specifically state and local authorities. If your state doesn't care, then you're probably going to be fine. But while rolling coal is the big thing that tips off that there's been a delete, the smell can be noticed even just from driving by. I was driving the GL550 the other day (you know, before my wife hit a deer with it) and there was a deleted truck that was obvious from smell.

Like I said, it's something to consider and I think it's going to get worse. Even on the Ram group where the #1 solution to a burned out headlight is to do an emissions delete, people are saying "If you do deletes, don't throw out the equipment - you're going to need to reinstall it one day."

Of course, deleting catalytic converters from gas powered cars has been illegal for decades. The only place I've heard of people getting ticketed for that was Virgina, but they're pretty draconian about vehicle regs.

I don't want to "like" this post, but thank you.

Are they talking about at routine traffic stops/etc? That's wild.

FYI, Scout 2's did ship with Catalytic converters and smog pumps.

 

[Ted]

I don't want to "like" this post, but thank you.

Are they talking about at routine traffic stops/etc? That's wild.

The letter didn't talk about how they were going to go about implementing it, and my guess is that's still TBD. I don't want to post any ideas to harvest so I'm not going to, but it doesn't take much effort for me to think about a number of ways they could implement it.

FYI, Scout 2's did ship with Catalytic converters and smog pumps.

The thing with something that old as a gasser is that it's exempt from emissions in most states and people expect it to be smelly, so nobody will notice anything you do there. An old diesel is also difference since they were without emissions equipment (or at least without anything significant).

 

[SoonerAviator]

The letter didn't talk about how they were going to go about implementing it, and my guess is that's still TBD. I don't want to post any ideas to harvest so I'm not going to, but it doesn't take much effort for me to think about a number of ways they could implement it.



The thing with something that old as a gasser is that it's exempt from emissions in most states and people expect it to be smelly, so nobody will notice anything you do there. An old diesel is also difference since they were without emissions equipment (or at least without anything significant).

I doubt that most states that aren't Cali or VA or going to care much about going after deleted diesels. It would be the last thing on my list of worries about owning a diesel truck (more likely not making the list at all).

1. They don't have the manpower to go after every offender.
2. In states without vehicle equipment inspections, they'd have no enforcement arm at all other than LEOs who aren't trained to spot whether an EGR/DPF is still in place, or otherwise tuned.
3. The ones cited for violations would be those who roll coal or similarly stupid actions, which deserve to get cited anyway.
4. If the EPA were to target people, it would be the shops which perform the deletes . . . which would open up a EPA/DOT can of worms since so many modifications fall under the umbrella of "off road use only".

 

[Ted]

4. If the EPA were to target people, it would be the shops which perform the deletes . . . which would open up a EPA/DOT can of worms since so many modifications fall under the umbrella of "off road use only".

They're already doing this.

I agree that at this point it's probably not something to be hugely worried about, but it is something to consider. It's part of why I'm not going to delete my truck at the moment and just leave it stock, or doing modifications that won't impact the emissions equipment.

 

[cgrab]

When I bought my Willys pickup, I found there were three categories: Junk that needed full restoration (< $2k); fully restored, usually with a Chevy engine and sometimes on a S-19 chassis; and the one I bought that had the original engine but needed work on the accessories and body. It took me about a year to get it to where I could drive it when I wanted. Still have an Escort for the heavy rain days. What I would like to do to it: electric wipers instead of vacuum; disc brakes in front, eventually pull the engine and transmission and replace all the seals.

I do have the overdrive gear on the transfer case and that allows me to do 60mph instead of the factory 45.

 

[cgrab]

One more thing, I pulled some shoulder belts from a Ford truck in the yard and bolted them into the Willys.

 

[Fallsrider]

that's interesting. I'd get 17-19 on the highway in our 345, 4bbl, 4speed model and 10-12 around town. We didn't have any cold start issues either, I wonder if it was just a timing/carb adjustment thing. No blame here, there's a lot I know now that make me reflect on my previous choices with disdain, but now some of these things would be solvable with the application of what's now reasonable money. there's something about driving a scout...

It's quite possible there were some issues with mine. It ran great once it warmed up. I also had the lowest gearing (high numerical) I think you could get. It was great for towing, but not good for the highway.

I sure wish I could have kept mine, and would love to have it back today (if in decent shape). Light blue w/black interior. It was six years old when I bought it, and only had something like 15,000 original miles. A local woman bought it for her blind disabled vet husband to drive him around town in. I bought it from her.

Good luck on whatever you decide to do! And pics if you get one!

 

[cowman]

So I was gonna say a lot of stuff but after I read OP's posts, OP has driven a Scout before so I won't explain just how bad the handling, braking, and ride will be compared to any modern vehicle.

I think a 29' 5500lb trailer is a lot for a Scout. I won't say it won't do it, it has the drivetrain to pull more than that but the suspension and brakes are a little more iffy IMO. I would definitely get the 118" WB 'Traveller' version(easily identified by a fiberglass top and big single piece liftgate) for that over the 100" WB standard Scout II. Good trailer brakes would be a must have, probably a load equalizing hitch too. A short trip down a relatively flat rural highway would probably be OK, especially if going slow was an option but for a long interstate trip I think I'd pass. IH did make a bigger heavier SUV called a Travellall (not to be confused with the Scout Traveller) which might be better suited for towing a big camper.

Emissions didn't start for Scout IIs until 1979, get a 78 and older and you shouldn't need to worry about cats or smog pumps. The axles/differentials are normally Dana 44s with a Dana 20 transfer case, if you want to play around with gearing changes the parts are widely available. Earlier Scouts had 4 wheel drum brakes, later models were front disk/rear drum. A lot of Scout owners have done disk brake conversions. There is also a hydroboost braking system upgrade that uses your power steering pump to add additional hydraulic force to the brake system- probably a good thing to look into if towing.

Rust is the #1, #2, and #3 problem to look for when buying a Scout II. The engines seem to run forever, the automatic transmission is basically a Chrysler 727 with an IH specific bellhousing so if you can't get a good used one they're cheap/easy to rebuild. They rust everywhere but the worst common areas are the front cab mounts, basically right under where the driver's pedals are(and the same place on the passenger side). If you're looking at a used Scout pay attention to how the top rear edge of the doors(metal part) lines up with the top edge of the quarter panel. When the cab mounts rot the body will sag and the door will sit noticably lower then the quarter panel it should line up with. Not a 100% diagnosis but a really obvious warning sign. Other common rot areas are the lower corners of the windshield frames and all the usual old truck spots like rocker panels, floor pans, and quarter panels/fenders. The good news is there are multiple vendors selling replacement body panels but that requires cutting and welding.

I put a Holley Sniper throttle body EFI kit on mine. Overall I like it, it didn't do much for MPG but it makes for easy starts and smooth predictable idle. I also ditched my hardtop and went with a soft top. I wouldn't want the soft top on a daily driver, it does OK in motion but when parked it leaks water onto the seats. For our purposes it works great though.

I know way too much about these things, I also have a parts Scout and piles of spare parts horded away, any specific questions just ask. I took a Scout II that was probably way too rusted to justify repairing and did it anyway because I wanted to learn how. I'm no body man even after I did this, just learned from youtube. Full album of the whole process is here, it should be publicly viewable.
https://www.facebook.com/jaime.bunn/media_set?set=a.10102092551666785&type=3

 

[Southpaw]

Isuzu Trooper , Have a 92 and love it . Good stable ride. Also had a 98 Trooper with all the bells and whistles , Gave it to youngest daughter. Nice comfortable driving and riding vehicles.

 

[MIFlyer]

So I was gonna say a lot of stuff but after I read OP's posts, OP has driven a Scout before so I won't explain just how bad the handling, braking, and ride will be compared to any modern vehicle.

I think a 29' 5500lb trailer is a lot for a Scout. I won't say it won't do it, it has the drivetrain to pull more than that but the suspension and brakes are a little more iffy IMO. I would definitely get the 118" WB 'Traveller' version(easily identified by a fiberglass top and big single piece liftgate) for that over the 100" WB standard Scout II. Good trailer brakes would be a must have, probably a load equalizing hitch too. A short trip down a relatively flat rural highway would probably be OK, especially if going slow was an option but for a long interstate trip I think I'd pass. IH did make a bigger heavier SUV called a Travellall (not to be confused with the Scout Traveller) which might be better suited for towing a big camper.

Emissions didn't start for Scout IIs until 1979, get a 78 and older and you shouldn't need to worry about cats or smog pumps. The axles/differentials are normally Dana 44s with a Dana 20 transfer case, if you want to play around with gearing changes the parts are widely available. Earlier Scouts had 4 wheel drum brakes, later models were front disk/rear drum. A lot of Scout owners have done disk brake conversions. There is also a hydroboost braking system upgrade that uses your power steering pump to add additional hydraulic force to the brake system- probably a good thing to look into if towing.

Rust is the #1, #2, and #3 problem to look for when buying a Scout II. The engines seem to run forever, the automatic transmission is basically a Chrysler 727 with an IH specific bellhousing so if you can't get a good used one they're cheap/easy to rebuild. They rust everywhere but the worst common areas are the front cab mounts, basically right under where the driver's pedals are(and the same place on the passenger side). If you're looking at a used Scout pay attention to how the top rear edge of the doors(metal part) lines up with the top edge of the quarter panel. When the cab mounts rot the body will sag and the door will sit noticably lower then the quarter panel it should line up with. Not a 100% diagnosis but a really obvious warning sign. Other common rot areas are the lower corners of the windshield frames and all the usual old truck spots like rocker panels, floor pans, and quarter panels/fenders. The good news is there are multiple vendors selling replacement body panels but that requires cutting and welding.

I put a Holley Sniper throttle body EFI kit on mine. Overall I like it, it didn't do much for MPG but it makes for easy starts and smooth predictable idle. I also ditched my hardtop and went with a soft top. I wouldn't want the soft top on a daily driver, it does OK in motion but when parked it leaks water onto the seats. For our purposes it works great though.

I know way too much about these things, I also have a parts Scout and piles of spare parts horded away, any specific questions just ask. I took a Scout II that was probably way too rusted to justify repairing and did it anyway because I wanted to learn how. I'm no body man even after I did this, just learned from youtube. Full album of the whole process is here, it should be publicly viewable.
https://www.facebook.com/jaime.bunn/media_set?set=a.10102092551666785&type=3



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Thanks Cowman. I do have concerns about the towing experience, which is why the idea to keep the truck, buy the scout and run both of them for a few months is pretty sound. you can see just how bad, or tolerable it is. if I did end up replacing the truck, i'd do a full propride hitch and prodigy 3 brake controller. The airstreams were pulled with station wagons, so it's really the short wheelbase that i'm concerned with.

I suppose that's actually the smart thing. Buy a roller for $6k, drive it a few months and if it's going to REPLACE the truck, sell it and buy a nice one. If it's just a fun sunday driver, then I can decide what I want, or if I find that I just never drive the scout after the novelty wears off, sell it and call it a memory.

Your scout is gorgeous, BTW.

 

[MIFlyer]

They're already doing this.

I agree that at this point it's probably not something to be hugely worried about, but it is something to consider. It's part of why I'm not going to delete my truck at the moment and just leave it stock, or doing modifications that won't impact the emissions equipment.

Ted Just wants to convert another one off an automatic onto a Saginaw 4 speed. that's why he's encouraging me

 

[Ted]

Ted Just wants to convert another one off an automatic onto a Saginaw 4 speed. that's why he's encouraging me

Any time you can remove the automatic transmission from a vehicle and replace it from a manual, an angel gets its wings.

I also think that towing 5,500 lbs with a Scout would be a bit much, although that's having never driven one before. I've towed that much with a K5 Blazer before and it was outright terrifying. Of course the truck had 120 degrees of play in the steering wheel, was lifted on 35s, and the rear shocks were disconnected. But even still, it wouldn't have done a good job if in good condition.

I think you're best off with two vehicles... even if you sell the F-350 for a lower value 3/4 or 1-ton truck.

 

[cowman]

Here's what you want for classic IH towing...

 

[MIFlyer]

Here's what you want for classic IH towing...

yes, that'd be better for towing, but my primary goal is to have a fun car to drive around and hopefully be able to tow. We don't tend to take the camper more than 150 miles each way. If it's farther, we tend to take the plane, so if I have to go 60 MPH instead of a higher number 3x per year, it's not the end of the world. Or, I might end up with multiple vehicles again.

 

[Bill]

Here's what you want for classic IH towing...

There was a family in the neighborhood growing up, guy was an engineer and liked interesting cars. He had a Travelall wagon for family trips and towing the camper, a really nice tricked up Scout II for offroading, and an MGB for farting around town. An interesting set of vehicles...

 

[MIFlyer]

Wife and I were chit chatting this morning, since she's been unable to drive to work for a few days, about what our stable should look like once we've got some money again. The i3 is absolutely the perfect car for her 99% of days but it can't handle any adverse conditions, is range limited and is limited to 4 (so no helping pickup a kid's friend).

The truck is the perfect tow vehicle and pretty good for trips. It's passable as my commuter, though they're fairly expensive miles i'm adding to it.

The scout would handle adverse weather fine and trips up to the pass to ski and picking up one extra kid, but wouldn't be a great trip car, nor a great tower for heavier loads.

Probably, our main needs are:

We'd benefit from a car that she was willing to drive, that could haul 6-7 people and be good for non-camper trips
We need some way to tow a trailer occasionally. realistically, the 5,500lb airstream is the biggest thing we tow with even occasionality. I've had bigger loads behind the truck twice.
We need 1 car that's really good for city commute and one that's decent for a suburb commute in some stop and go.
I absolutely need at least one car with 4wd

Other considerations
we live on some property and have parking for a third car, but i'd prefer not to junk up the place, and i'm not allowed to build any outbuildings because of environmental regs (evn on the existing driveway footprint, at least, not anyplace I'd want one)
We live in a metro area and she commutes 10 miles each way to a high rise with underground parking. I commute 17 miles each way, but our campus has pretty spacious parking garages, so a full size car/truck is hassle free. I occasionally need to go to another campus/meeting and the truck can be impossible to park due to height in some of those places
our city will have a light rail station in 2023 (about 3 miles from our house) that will take us each directly to our work buildings, so between that, and the kids being 10-11 years old at that time, I think we would dramatically cut the number of days we'll commute each week.
I also don't like to tie up a lot of money in rolling stock. I've never sprung for a new car.
I won't tolerate bad reliability, but I'm handy, and don't mind puttering on cars. I would prefer though to always be able to defer it (ie, have another option if I don't have the time or gumption to fix something this week on car A).

Both our cars are largely trouble free, and hers is even maintenance free.

I'd like something more fun to ram around in, but would rather get something fairly solid where I can do more driving than fixing (call this a midlife crisis)
I've preordered the Tesla truck, which would actually work as her commuter, and our trip car, but I don't think she'd ever drive it

 

[SoonerAviator]

Any time you can remove the automatic transmission from a vehicle and replace it from a manual, an angel gets its wings.

I also think that towing 5,500 lbs with a Scout would be a bit much, although that's having never driven one before. I've towed that much with a K5 Blazer before and it was outright terrifying. Of course the truck had 120 degrees of play in the steering wheel, was lifted on 35s, and the rear shocks were disconnected. But even still, it wouldn't have done a good job if in good condition.

I think you're best off with two vehicles... even if you sell the F-350 for a lower value 3/4 or 1-ton truck.

Yeah, I know people used to tow airstreams with station wagons, and 8K lbs with an F-150 and no trailer brakes . . . but having towed around 4K lbs with a 90's Jeep Wrangler just for a few miles I'd have to pass on 5,500lbs for 150 miles. Too much of the tail wagging the dog, although my instances have been with a single-axle boat trailer, not a tandem. If I'm towing 5,500 for 150 miles, I want a full-size truck/SUV like an F-150/Tahoe/etc. to make it comfortable. If I were towing that much weight weekly, I'd have a 3/4 ton diesel. I'd just be afraid that a 5,500lbs trailer would push a Scout around in a panic stop and jackknife, or stiff winds/crosswinds jerking the trailer around making the task a major chore. The short wheelbase is just not what I'd want to be working with for 2-3 hours towing anything more than a small utility trailer.

 

[cowman]

yes, that'd be better for towing, but my primary goal is to have a fun car to drive around and hopefully be able to tow. We don't tend to take the camper more than 150 miles each way. If it's farther, we tend to take the plane, so if I have to go 60 MPH instead of a higher number 3x per year, it's not the end of the world. Or, I might end up with multiple vehicles again.

I think multiple vehicles is the way to go. Scouts are fun to drive- my wife takes mine all the time. Disregarding the terrible MPG, I find it to be a really practical vehicle. If i'm running around town getting stuff... say 50# feed bags for one thing I actually prefer the Scout over my truck. The cargo area is easier to load and the Scout fits into tighter spots and has far better visibility than my truck does. I actually use it to move around farm machinery on property quite a bit because of that- easier to get in and around tight spots than any modern truck. I've towed a 12' utility trailer with it a few times as well and it handles that just fine but that's probably under 2000# of load.

It's definitely fun to drive though, despite the rough ride, rattles, and engine noise. Something about the rugged simplicity of it just feels 'right'. It's a blast getting into it after I haven't driven it for a while, I often find myself initially thinking something is wrong with the steering but nope that's just how they are! Precision steering just wasn't a thing back then I guess, you almost have to learn to drive again the first time you're in one. Also I have someone come up to me and ask me about it just about every time I take it somewhere. Gets more attention than anything else I've driven.

 

[Ted]

I think if you're talking about an older truck, especially with a manual, you definitely need to be looking at multiple vehicles. Even my wife, who ain't exactly girly, doesn't really like driving my truck. She won't come right out and say it, but I can tell. Riding in it doesn't bother her. But even the XKR - she and I both love it, but it's definitely more "her" car and more what she likes. The Cobra she says she'll drive, but I imagine once it starts driving it'll be too harsh for her.

My point is, don't compromise on the Scout to make it something that your wife will tolerate better - it will make it something that you like less. Just get another vehicle.

One thing with selling your F-350, though, is that you got a good one - that's hard to find in used trucks. So especially if you buy a lower value Scout to start out, if you're able to swing it and you're not worried about the EPA potentials I mentioned above, you're probably best off keeping the F-350.

By the time the Cobra's built, we'll end up having four cars/trucks in the stable, and that'll be about right. Maybe I'll build her a car to her liking next.

 

[RyanShort1]

The wife *hates* trucks, but is surprisingly open to the coolness of a scout. up here, trucks have stigma as "compensation" machines and gather a good bit of ridicule.

You wouldn't get that ridicule in most of Texas, lol...

 

[MIFlyer]

You wouldn't get that ridicule in most of Texas, lol...

unfortunately, if I proposed a move to texas, I would receive most of the ridicule. Married a left coast city girl and love her, but there are a few areas where we're different.

 

[MIFlyer]

I think if you're talking about an older truck, especially with a manual, you definitely need to be looking at multiple vehicles. Even my wife, who ain't exactly girly, doesn't really like driving my truck. She won't come right out and say it, but I can tell. Riding in it doesn't bother her. But even the XKR - she and I both love it, but it's definitely more "her" car and more what she likes. The Cobra she says she'll drive, but I imagine once it starts driving it'll be too harsh for her.

My point is, don't compromise on the Scout to make it something that your wife will tolerate better - it will make it something that you like less. Just get another vehicle.

One thing with selling your F-350, though, is that you got a good one - that's hard to find in used trucks. So especially if you buy a lower value Scout to start out, if you're able to swing it and you're not worried about the EPA potentials I mentioned above, you're probably best off keeping the F-350.

By the time the Cobra's built, we'll end up having four cars/trucks in the stable, and that'll be about right. Maybe I'll build her a car to her liking next.

I think you're right. The F350 is really about perfect, except for the captital tied up in it. as I want to add a plane too, I want to keep my total dollars tied into things with engines as a percentage of net worth low.

Actually, I could see us just moving her into a 5-7 passenger small suv at some point and i'd have the scout and maybe use the i3 for my commute and maybe have this truck, or a cheaper, but still able truck for some things...

Dunno. Ted/Jaime, you'll get a kick out of this, but supposedly someone found a Travelall with a Detroit Diesel in it either as a factory fit, or a right off the assembly line upfit for oil field service. I don't want one, but that's darned cool.

 

[Z06_Mir]

We have a Scout. It was my Grandpa's and he used it to tow snowmobiles, not sure how many pounds that would have been though. We use it now to haul our kayaks. It's a blast but in the summer we have to be cautious of the heat because it doesn't have an overdrive gear and we go up several thousand feet to get to the lakes. I'd like to add shoulder belts but that's about it. It has an 8 track player with my grandparents old tapes, we get a kick out of listening to those.

 

[MIFlyer]

I think multiple vehicles is the way to go. Scouts are fun to drive- my wife takes mine all the time. Disregarding the terrible MPG, I find it to be a really practical vehicle. If i'm running around town getting stuff... say 50# feed bags for one thing I actually prefer the Scout over my truck. The cargo area is easier to load and the Scout fits into tighter spots and has far better visibility than my truck does. I actually use it to move around farm machinery on property quite a bit because of that- easier to get in and around tight spots than any modern truck. I've towed a 12' utility trailer with it a few times as well and it handles that just fine but that's probably under 2000# of load.

It's definitely fun to drive though, despite the rough ride, rattles, and engine noise. Something about the rugged simplicity of it just feels 'right'. It's a blast getting into it after I haven't driven it for a while, I often find myself initially thinking something is wrong with the steering but nope that's just how they are! Precision steering just wasn't a thing back then I guess, you almost have to learn to drive again the first time you're in one. Also I have someone come up to me and ask me about it just about every time I take it somewhere. Gets more attention than anything else I've driven.

that simplicity and naturality to driving is what I miss. It's the car that I felt most at "one" with the car. You wear it like a pair of old jeans and know exactly when to shift, how you can swoop into a spot/etc. I was really driving it as second nature, and it's quite visceral.

If I get one, and keep the truck, my concern is that the truck would turn into a 2,000 mile per year car

 

[MIFlyer]

We have a Scout. It was my Grandpa's and he used it to tow snowmobiles, not sure how many pounds that would have been though. We use it now to haul our kayaks. It's a blast but in the summer we have to be cautious of the heat because it doesn't have an overdrive gear and we go up several thousand feet to get to the lakes. I'd like to add shoulder belts but that's about it. It has an 8 track player with my grandparents old tapes, we get a kick out of listening to those.

That's pretty! Thanks for sharing. My buddy had a scout 800 and it was a blast, but the scout ii is definitely a lot better on the freeway. wow! you are really convincing me

 

[Ted]

Dunno. Ted/Jaime, you'll get a kick out of this, but supposedly someone found a Travelall with a Detroit Diesel in it either as a factory fit, or a right off the assembly line upfit for oil field service. I don't want one, but that's darned cool.

Now I’m curious what kind. 4-71?