My father in law owns a resturant in SW Utah, & has gone the biodiesel route for all his farm equipment. He has enough extra fuel that he's been looking for a Cummins powered Dodge as well.
[NA] Prius [NA]
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My father in law owns a resturant in SW Utah, & has gone the biodiesel route for all his farm equipment. He has enough extra fuel that he's been looking for a Cummins powered Dodge as well.
Greebo
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Retired Evil Overlord
The hybrid is a primarily gas powered vehicle with electic engine backup for very low speeds and for assists on acceleration.
The gas engine recharges the electric batteries, as needed, and the hybrid also reclaims momentum when braking and also when coasting and uses that to generate electricity.
I average 25MPG in the hybrid highlander, which for an SUV I'm pretty darn happy about.
MSmith
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I average 25MPG in the hybrid highlander, which for an SUV I'm pretty darn happy about.
I'm right about the same neighborhood, depending on where I have to drive. Better than the 17MPG my old Jeep Grand Cherokee (V6) used to get.
wsuffa
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Friend of mine is on his second Prius. Gave the first one to his son. He loves it....
JRitt
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If you look at the life expectancy of a diesel Benz (15K mi/yr) it would prob last you 25yrs. With the cost of battery replacements in a hybrid the long term cost would prob not be that much different. If Chrysler was smart they would take the engine in this Benz and put it into their Mini Van, Dodge Nitro, Magnum, Dakota, Durango. These vehicles would have plenty of power and return 30-34mpg hwy. I would buy a Dodge mini van or Durango getting 32mpg hwy over any other vehicle in their class.Guilty as charged.
I was trying to pick at JRitt for his "This is my idea of an economy car" comment. The idea of a $50K Benz as an ecomony car just struck me kinda funny.
Let'sgoflying!
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Thanks I will forward your comments if no one minds, yes f.i.l. is father in law!
Spike; mission is to survive the Fredericksburg congestion with one a month trips to the big city; Kerrville. (remember, I live 90 miles from the nearest stop light)
Spike; mission is to survive the Fredericksburg congestion with one a month trips to the big city; Kerrville. (remember, I live 90 miles from the nearest stop light)
flyersfan31
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VW TDi. Drive one and you'll see. I rented a TDi in France a few years ago by accident. When I got to the car, I saw it was a turbodiesel, I actually went back to the counter to swap it out. No way did I want a diesel. I received a very polite "Non" so I was stuck with the Renault TDi (a Megane, I believe). Short story - it drove great, plenty of pep, you'd never know it was a diesel, and it got great gas mileage. The premium you pay for the hybrid will never be clawed back, and the batteries are scary things.
Were it my Dad or FIL, with that mission, I'd suggest he get himself over to the Crenwelge folks, and buy a Chevy Malibu, 4 cyl., on which he can get stunningly good deals. Sound, well-built, local dealer (been in the community for 66 years, same ownership). Very good mileage, and probably about $10,000.00 less than what you're describing (roomier, too).
cwyckham
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Here are some interesting tidbits from Toyota's FAQ site. It's a stupid flash thing that I can't copy and paste from, so I'll have to paraphrase:
How long will the battery last? What is the replacement cost?
The battery's designed to last the life of the car. The entire Hybrid system, including the battery, is covered by an 8 year, 100,000 mile full warranty.
What about battery disposal at the end of life?
The NiMH batteries are 100% recycled, and dealers are paid $200 per battery to return them to Toyota for recycling.
What about diesels?
They get great miles per gallon, but have very high emissions (17 times greater than a hybrid) of particulates and other smog creating and carcinogenic nasties. They are illegal for sale in New York, California, Vermont, Maine and Massachusets due to the emissions.
How long will the battery last? What is the replacement cost?
The battery's designed to last the life of the car. The entire Hybrid system, including the battery, is covered by an 8 year, 100,000 mile full warranty.
What about battery disposal at the end of life?
The NiMH batteries are 100% recycled, and dealers are paid $200 per battery to return them to Toyota for recycling.
What about diesels?
They get great miles per gallon, but have very high emissions (17 times greater than a hybrid) of particulates and other smog creating and carcinogenic nasties. They are illegal for sale in New York, California, Vermont, Maine and Massachusets due to the emissions.
JRitt
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There are kits on the market that will allow you to plug in your hybrid and run just off of electrical power untill the battery power drops below a preset point. This is a good option if you make just a couple of short drives a day but it voids you warrantee.
JRitt
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This is incorrect. Currently all of the Volkswagon diesels meet the stricter CARB emmissions requirements for diesels and are availible in all 50 states.
cwyckham
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The Toyota FAQ also addresses this and says that it's not worth it since you'd only get about a mile or so on a full charge without using the gas engine.
No, the modifications I'm speaking of give you 30-40 miles range and involve a complete battery change. It costs quite a bit to do. The on-board batteries supplied with the Prius would indeed only be good for a short time.
Since I drive that distance one-way to work, Plug-in Hybrid is the only option that would work for me, but for now the high-mileage diesel works
.Actually you can get more for batteries if you recycle them yourself. Either lead-acid or NiMH. And the lead etc., are reclaimed.
I suspect the emissions numbers I have heard for today's diesels are slanted by bias. I am amazed how many people say "I had a 1978 Caprice Diesel and I would never have another one". Times have changed, and engines have advanced.
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I concur on the older Benz diesels (I think NC Pilot Mark runs a fleet of older kero burner benzes), they will last nearly a lifetime. The newer ones are probably fine drivetrain wise, but all of the electronic doodads and features are not very robust, and will quickly start sucking AMU's out of your wallet later in life.
Too bad, I wish I could buy a Benz diesel with manual AC, rollup windows, and without all the electronic luxury crap. That would be a nice vehicle.
I have a 2006 Prius, now with about 10,000 miles on it. We find that we leave the Honda Pilot SUV parked a lot and fight over the Prius. It's a real hoot to get mpg, and the video display of instantaneous fuel flow has trained us to be more fuel efficient. The car is comfortable, drives well, and is surprisingly roomy both front and back.
Typical of anything that involves social change, there are a lot of strong opinions and misinformation. These cars have been built and used for eight years, so they are not too new and have been proven to be reliable. The batteries last, and when they do go lead is easy to recycle.
One of the nicest features is the big MFD, and the GPS option and Bluetooth connection for handsfree cell phone use makes it feel like a cockpit. I like the smart key entry, too.
We are very pleased with it. We did not go for a hybrid SUV because they don't really produce much efficiency--they are still big heavy vehicles and lack the streamlining that is the hallmark of the Prius. The Prius is so slippery a 20 kt tailwind gives us 5 mpg.
The only unadvertised downside is that the sweet spot for fuel efficiency is about 45 MPH. Above and below that the mileage goes down, so our mix of driving yields "only" about 48 mpg. Also, if you do a lot of short trips the first five minutes are really bad, with only about 32 mpg, and fuel mileage goes down in the wintertime. For lots more check out: priuschat.com
Typical of anything that involves social change, there are a lot of strong opinions and misinformation. These cars have been built and used for eight years, so they are not too new and have been proven to be reliable. The batteries last, and when they do go lead is easy to recycle.
One of the nicest features is the big MFD, and the GPS option and Bluetooth connection for handsfree cell phone use makes it feel like a cockpit. I like the smart key entry, too.
We are very pleased with it. We did not go for a hybrid SUV because they don't really produce much efficiency--they are still big heavy vehicles and lack the streamlining that is the hallmark of the Prius. The Prius is so slippery a 20 kt tailwind gives us 5 mpg.
The only unadvertised downside is that the sweet spot for fuel efficiency is about 45 MPH. Above and below that the mileage goes down, so our mix of driving yields "only" about 48 mpg. Also, if you do a lot of short trips the first five minutes are really bad, with only about 32 mpg, and fuel mileage goes down in the wintertime. For lots more check out: priuschat.com
This is looking like a Mac vs. PC thing...
...Prius is (Priuii are? Priuae are? Priuses be?), by all accounts from everyone I know who owns one, a fine buggy. But if you were recommending a car for light use by an older gent in a rural town (with no Toyota dealer), would it make sense to spend the $10,000.00 (or more) extra that it costs to buy one, when you can buy a locally-sold and supported car, of good quality and with a 100,000 mile warranty?
Figure (generously) a 10 mpg net advantage in fuel mileage (probably a generous allowance). It'll never get anywhere near made up, not evn remotely close.
For this purpose, the Prius represents only a social statement and a donation to Toyota.
And, by the way, Toyotas cost more down here, since in Texas, dealers don't actually buy their cars from Toyota- they buy them from Gulf States Toyota, a regional distributor which has managed to keep their territorial exclusivity. Pricing varies from Toyota's standards (always, in my observations, varying upward).
===
All that said, when pricing parity (or reasonably close to it) is achieved, the inherent thermodynamic advantages of a well-engineered hybrid driveline are hard to argue with.
...Prius is (Priuii are? Priuae are? Priuses be?), by all accounts from everyone I know who owns one, a fine buggy. But if you were recommending a car for light use by an older gent in a rural town (with no Toyota dealer), would it make sense to spend the $10,000.00 (or more) extra that it costs to buy one, when you can buy a locally-sold and supported car, of good quality and with a 100,000 mile warranty?
Figure (generously) a 10 mpg net advantage in fuel mileage (probably a generous allowance). It'll never get anywhere near made up, not evn remotely close.
For this purpose, the Prius represents only a social statement and a donation to Toyota.
And, by the way, Toyotas cost more down here, since in Texas, dealers don't actually buy their cars from Toyota- they buy them from Gulf States Toyota, a regional distributor which has managed to keep their territorial exclusivity. Pricing varies from Toyota's standards (always, in my observations, varying upward).
===
All that said, when pricing parity (or reasonably close to it) is achieved, the inherent thermodynamic advantages of a well-engineered hybrid driveline are hard to argue with.
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Anthony
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JRitt
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But its a low emmision diesel/electric hybrid with and EPA of 36city/ 34 Highway
gibbons
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Excellent choice! You couldn't be happier with a vehicle. Now, if you'll step into my office we can start the paperwork.
Anthony
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No, its the older, proven gasoline technology that gets maybe 16 MPG, about the same as my Tiger.
Let'sgoflying!
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One thing his wife doesnt like it the view out the rear view mirror. Later I learned that they come with a camera that displays on the panel what you are about to back into, I mean the view out the back so you can see how close the other cars etc are...
So I asked why mess with the RV mirror when you can just use the camera??
Apparently the camera is inactivated when out of reverse, for safety reasons. (no TV watching while driving). Maybe a handy person could fix this?!
So I asked why mess with the RV mirror when you can just use the camera??
Apparently the camera is inactivated when out of reverse, for safety reasons. (no TV watching while driving). Maybe a handy person could fix this?!
cwyckham
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The model I drove didn't have any sort of camera (that I knew of). At first glance, the view out the back seemed horrible, but I found that it was really no problem at all. At no point was there a vehicle that was blocked by the horizontal bar accross my view. My situational awareness wasn't impaired at all, despite my expectations on first seeing the rear view.
Chris
DeeG
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There are a couple of them for sale in the Seattle areas. One gal that lives here in Wenatchee already has one.
JRitt
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I told my wife that if I end up getting this job I am applying for I am getting a motor scootor to ride to work (Its 3 mi away and low speeds). She laughed because she knew I would.
cwyckham
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I told my wife that if I end up getting this job I am applying for I am getting a motor scootor to ride to work (Its 3 mi away and low speeds). She laughed because she knew I would.
My wife and I managed for years with only one car because we always lived somewhere where one of us could bike to work. A bike would be even better than the scooter because you get some health benefit, too.
JRitt
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Except the road I have to use has a 45mph speed limit (that means they drive 60+) and I'm not going to risk my life on a bicycle on that road. I am looking at an electric scooter or maybe a 3 wheel electric vehicle
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A small bore (Suzuki DRz400?) dual sport motorcycle will be good on gas, better able to keep up with traffic, and can be a hoot on weekends if you have any offroad trails nearby.
When I lived in NY I had a Suzuki DR-350, and if I really tried (pulling the clutch and coasting the hills, etc.), I could get 72mpg.
cwyckham
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Fair enough. A couple jobs back I stopped riding my bike to work because I realized that I was having far more close calls biking to work during the week than I was climbing mountains on the weekend.
There is a problem with serious accidents with hybrids/electric --
If you need the jaws of life to get you out, you will have problems. Each vehicle is different, a "where you make your cut" can add to the casualty list. I am sure they'll figure out a solution to this problem, but it ain't there yet. When faced with the "golden hour" I don't want to be waiting on a fireman tapping his toes trying to figure out how he's going to get you out without being electrocuted.
Merf
If you need the jaws of life to get you out, you will have problems. Each vehicle is different, a "where you make your cut" can add to the casualty list. I am sure they'll figure out a solution to this problem, but it ain't there yet. When faced with the "golden hour" I don't want to be waiting on a fireman tapping his toes trying to figure out how he's going to get you out without being electrocuted.
Merf
JRitt
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Introducing the new (in 2009-2010) Chevrolet Volt. It a hybrid that is different. The drive system is only electric (the motor only recharges the battery). Its a plug in hybrid going 40mi/charge before the motor kicks in to charge the batteries (which are Lithium Ion). When the batteries get to 30% charge the motor kicks in and in 30min gets the charge to 80%. Because the charge is capped at 80% (even for the plug in charge) the life exp. of the batteries are 10yrs. I think this mode of thinking could vey well save GM. http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/0...w-its-here-gms-plug-in-hybrid-is-the-chevy-v/