(NA) Not a LEO, but. . .

The oil and chemical industry use what are known as "sample bombs" to get in process hot or cold samples from process streams. The look like a small cherry bomb muffler, with valves and unions on both ends.
 
Zeldman said:
Simple thing is to not be a D-head. Be polite, do as asked, no raised voice, no yelling and act truly concerned as to the reason for the traffic stop. Ask questions. Instead of some smart A question, ask something along the lines of what could/should I have done instead....

Seems like when I watch video of someone not surviving a traffic stop that person is disruptive, disobedient, fighting, trying to run and usually has outstanding warrants. After a few videos I think I will try to be obedient and polite instead.

Remember, police deal with the bottom of the barrel of the human race daily. They don't know if they are about to deal with Charles Manson or the Dalai Lama, so after while, sadly, they will suspect the worse of everyone.
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yes but respect is a two way street.they have no right to treat everyone as guilty all the time. i expect the leo to follow the laws and the constitution. the demand for id and the abuse of that power is wide spread in this county. let them violate your rights and soon your rights are gone. the amount of data collection the government is involved in is mind blowing. do some research on the amount of people that have had visits from guys with ear pieces just because they were in dc on january 6. when dealing with the law, know your rights, be polite, but stand up for your rights. when the line is crossed, file complaints and lawsuits. without people overseeing the law, we will soon be in a total police state, we are on the way.
 
I am a cop (but not a lawyer). Your list is fairly accurate, but 2 and 3 are generally not correct (at least not here). I can ASK anything I want from a passenger, but unless I suspect them of committing a crime, I can’t DEMAND them to ID themselves or not leave the stop and walk away.

On the topic of body cams, I can’t wait to get one.
 
In my line of work, we have camera systems that were designed to improve public safety, and in most cases they do. However, these camera systems (and their associated HDs) are controlled by the user and not by the agency responsible for monitoring "safe behaviors." I have found that whenever the user thinks that the other party is at fault, these camera systems work without fail. However, if the user can be construed as having any fault in the matter, the camera systems have a high failure rate.

I'm concerned that these body cams may suffer the same reliability issues.
 
ID requirements vary by state. Mine, Maryland, has a total requirement that you have suitable ID any time you are not on your own property.

Walking in the neighborhood, you must carry ID.

I bad coincidence can result in unfortunate outcomes. A neighbor was out for a walk, a couple of blocks from home. A Police car approached, the officer climbed out of his car, and cautiously approached, and requested ID. The walker did not have ID on him, and was placed in the rear seat of the police car, and locked in.

After several back and forths on the computer information system, it became doubtful that this person was the suspect, and the officer drove to the walker's home, and escorted the walker inside, where proper picture ID was produced, and the officer apologized and left. The walker is a close neighbor, and was upset that this could happen.

The event that started this was a report that a person not recognized, had left the back yard of a house, and there was suspicion that a burglary had occurred. The suspect had departed, walking, in the general direction the policeman was traveling when he found a walker.

I approached a county police officer from a different precinct, and asked if this was legal, he became furious, said he thought it unconstitutional, but definitely state law.
 
geezer said:
ID requirements vary by state. Mine, Maryland, has a total requirement that you have suitable ID any time you are not on your own property.
Click to expand...

Hard to see how that’s not unconstitutional. Needing to “show papers” smacks of totalitarian states.
 
Half Fast said:
Yep.

Cop says, “Why are your clothes all bloody?”
Suspect says, “Am I free to leave?”
Cop says, “And what are you doing in a Circle K parking lot at 1 a.m.?”
Suspect says, “Am I free to leave?”
And so on...​

What next?

SWMBO knew a veterinarian years ago who had to do some sort of emergency surgery on an animal late one evening. He stopped at a convenience store on the way home, after midnight, with blood all over his clothes. The clerk asked if there had been an accident, and the doc just gave a sly grin and said “No.” Then he laughed and walked out.

Might have been an interesting encounter with a cop.
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"I am interpreting your non-answer as I am free to leave, have a nice day. " Then you will find out if you are free to leave. Another thing to say is "I don't answer questions officer."
 
geezer said:
ID requirements vary by state. Mine, Maryland, has a total requirement that you have suitable ID any time you are not on your own property.
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Can you provide the statute for that? Maryland is not a stop and ID state although when a peace officer has reasonable suspicion you can be detained.

Sounds like you buddy was subject to a Terry stop.
 
Timbeck2 said:
Just be respectful and the LEO will respond in kind. They have a crappy job to do and often deal with the dregs of society. I was recently stopped for not stopping at a stop sign leaving a convenience store. There was no stop sign. He knew it and I knew it. While he was running my driver’s license, his partner and I had a conversation about my job since I’d answered the question of “Are you just getting off of work?” It was 1030pm. I told them that I was on my way to work. He then asked where I worked and what I did. Then it became became a question of stress level where he thought my job was stressful and I countered that his job was more so. Then the first guy came back and gave me my license back and told me to have a good night. Quite a pleasant experience really.
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Some states (I think MD is one) require a "Stop" before exiting a parking lot. The cop shop where I was consulting had a contest (win a turkey) for the person who could drive the farthest before an inadvertent violation. Most of us didn't get out of the parking lot. I don't think any ride lasted more than five minutes.
 
Cops catch crap for the legislature. If your state requires ID, then your argument is with your elected reps. I think most cop shops have their policies and procedures vetted, and some legal eagle(s) have signed off of what they can/can't do. Doesn't mean the legal guys were correct, but that's a dispute that's gotta be adjudicated in court, not on the street.

LEOs have a lot of discretion in some areas, but almost none in others - on ride-alongs I was surprised by how many people asked the cop for advice, or specifics of the law, and were ****ed off when he wouldn't educate or advise them - but doing so conflicted with law and policy. Some advice would be considered "coercion", like suggesting the suspect consent to a breathalyzer or FST. Tough job.
 
geezer said:
ID requirements vary by state. Mine, Maryland, has a total requirement that you have suitable ID any time you are not on your own property.

Walking in the neighborhood, you must carry ID.

I bad coincidence can result in unfortunate outcomes. A neighbor was out for a walk, a couple of blocks from home. A Police car approached, the officer climbed out of his car, and cautiously approached, and requested ID. The walker did not have ID on him, and was placed in the rear seat of the police car, and locked in.

After several back and forths on the computer information system, it became doubtful that this person was the suspect, and the officer drove to the walker's home, and escorted the walker inside, where proper picture ID was produced, and the officer apologized and left. The walker is a close neighbor, and was upset that this could happen.

The event that started this was a report that a person not recognized, had left the back yard of a house, and there was suspicion that a burglary had occurred. The suspect had departed, walking, in the general direction the policeman was traveling when he found a walker.

I approached a county police officer from a different precinct, and asked if this was legal, he became furious, said he thought it unconstitutional, but definitely state law.
Click to expand...
Maryland is not a stop and Id state. The officer required ras to make the detention in the first place. If the officer had ras based on the description of the person described in the report, would be up to the courts. However, it could be argued that since the unsub, was not identified, the producing id would not add any information to the investigation and therefore it was an unlawful order. You cannot lie when asked questions, but you are under no legal obligation to answer them, or aid an officer in his investigation. This demand for id was a 4th amendment rights violation in my book. He should have at least filled an in complaint, and probably a federal lawsuit.
 
Stop And Identify Laws By State
Here are the laws in each state regarding the requirements to stop and identify yourself. Remember that this list is provided for educational purposes only and is not intended to provide legal advice.


​
  • Alabama — An officer may stop anyone in a public place that they suspect has committed, is committing, or is about to commit an offense. The officer is allowed to ask for their name, address, and an explanation of their actions.
  • Alaska — There is no stop and identify statute in Alaska.
  • Arizona — A person who is lawfully detained will need to provide their full legal name, but they are not required to provide any additional information to the officer. Failure to provide this information is considered a Class 2 misdemeanor.
  • Arkansas — Stop and ID law is tied to the loitering law, and an officer may ask for the person’s name and a reasonable account of their actions if they are loitering or prowling.
  • California — There is no stop and identify statute in California.
  • Colorado — A suspect is required to give his name and address when stopped under reasonable suspicion. The suspect may also be required to provide an ID and give an explanation of his actions.
  • Connecticut — There is no stop and identify statute in Connecticut.
  • Delaware — A suspect may be detained and required to provide his name, address, destination, and an explanation of his actions. Wen detained under the stop and ID statute, the detainment can last for no more than two hours.
  • D.C. — There is no stop and identify statute in DC.
  • Florida — A police officer may stop you with a reasonable suspicion that you have committed, are committing, or are about to commit a violation of any law in the state. You will be required to identify yourself, but the law is not specific about which pieces of identifying information are required.
  • Georgia — A person suspected of loitering or prowling may be stopped by a police officer and asked for identification. The suspect may also be required to provide an explanation of his actions.
  • Hawaii — There is no stop and identify statute in Hawaii.
  • Idaho — There is no stop and identify statute in Idaho.
  • Illinoi — A police officer may stop you in public with reasonable suspicion, and the officer may ask you for your name, address, and an explanation of your actions. The questioning must occur in the same vicinity where the stop occurred.
  • Indiana — It is a crime to refuse to provide your name, address, date of birth, or driver’s license (if in your possession) when asked by a law enforcement officer after being stopped for an infraction.
  • Iowa — There is no stop and identify statute in Iowa.
  • Kansas — A police officer may stop you in public on reasonable suspicion and may demand your name, address, and an explanation of your actions.
  • Kentucky — There is no stop and identify statute in Kentucky.
  • Louisiana — Similar to other states, an officer in Louisiana may stop a person in a public place if they reasonably suspect the person has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime. The officer may demand the person’s name, address, and an explanation of their actions.
  • Maine — Upon probable cause, an officer may stop and require a person to provide their name, address, and date of birth. Persistent refusal to provide this information will result in a class E misdemeanor charge.
  • Maryland — The stop and ID statute in Maryland applies specifically when the officer reasonably believes that a suspect is wearing, carrying, or transporting a handgun. The officer may request the name and address of the suspect.
  • Massachusetts — An officer may stop a suspect upon reasonable suspicion and demand their destination and their business.
  • Michigan — There is no stop and identify statute in Michigan.
  • Minnesota — There is no stop and identify statute in Minnesota.
  • Mississippi — There is no stop and identify statute in Mississippi.
  • Missouri — Upon reasonable suspicion, an officer may stop a suspect and demand their name, address, and the business they are conducting.
  • Montana — An officer may stop any person or vehicle as long as they have “particularized suspicion.” The officer may ask for the person’s name, address, and an explanation of their actions.
  • Nebraska — A peace officer may stop a person in a public place with reasonable suspicion and demand the suspect’s name, address, and an explanation of their actions.
  • Nevada — An officer may stop a suspect under reasonable suspicion and demand the suspect identify himself. There are no specific requirements for the identifying information that must be provided. Stops under this law are usually limited to 60 minutes.
  • New Hampshire — An officer may stop a suspect under reasonable suspicion and demand the suspect’s name, address, destination, and business abroad.
  • New Jersey — There is no stop and identify statute in New Jersey.
  • New Mexico — There is no stop and identify statute in New Mexico.
  • New York — An officer may stop a person in a public place as long as the officer has reasonable suspicion that the person has committed, is committing, or is about to commit a crime. The officer may demand the suspect’s name, address, and an explanation of his actions.
  • North Carolina — There is no stop and identify statute in North Carolina.
  • North Dakota — An officer may stop any person reasonably suspected of committing a felony, a misdemeanor related to weapons, burglary, or drug offenses. The officer may demand the suspect’s name, address, and an explanation of his actions.
  • Ohio — The statute in Ohio requires a person to provide his name, address, and date of birth to an officer when stopped on reasonable suspicion of criminal activity.
  • Oklahoma — There is no stop and identify statute in Oklahoma.
  • Oregon — There is no stop and identify statute in Oregon.
  • Pennsylvania — There is no stop and identify statute in Pennsylvania.
  • Rhode Island — A police officer may stop and detain anyone they have reason to suspect is committing, has committed, or is about to commit a crime. The officer may demand the suspect’s name, address, destination, and business abroad.
  • South Carolina — There is no stop and identify statute in South Carolina.
  • South Dakota — There is no stop and identify statute in South Dakota.
  • Tennessee — There is no stop and identify statute in Tennessee.
  • Texas — There is no stop and identify statute in Texas; however, it is a crime to provide false identification to an officer.
  • Utah — An officer may stop a suspect in a public place under reasonable suspicion and demand the suspect’s name, address, and an explanation of his actions.
  • Vermont — When an officer has reasonable grounds to suspect the person of criminal activity, the suspect must identify himself to the police officer.
  • Virginia — There is no stop and identify statute in Virginia, although some municipalities do have stop and ID statutes.
  • Washington — There is no stop and identify statute in Washington, but some municipalities have stop and ID statutes.
  • West Virginia — There is no stop and identify statute in West Virginia.
  • Wisconsin — A person reasonably suspected of committing a crime may be stopped and asked for their name, address, and an explanation of their actions. They must provide this information to the officer
  • Wyoming — There is no stop and identify statute in Wyoming.
 
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I see a lot of "A peace officer may stop a person in a public place with reasonable suspicion and demand the suspect’s name, address, and an explanation of their actions" or similar. Is the person being questioned legally required to answer? Like we always told our kids... You can ask for anything you want, that' doesn't mean you're going to get it.
 
https://www.aclu.org/know-your-rights/border-zone

100mile.png
 
Yes sir, no sir, sorry sir goes a long way. I have gotten out of tickets that way. The few I have had where the cop pulled me over for speeding, and then only wrote me for a broken headlight.
 
LOL! I got a speeding ticket last spring, 51 in a 35, and it was legitimate. The cop asked me if I knew why he stopped me:
"I was speeding."
He cracked up, was genuinely surprised. My first reaction on getting lit up is to glance at the speedometer - my guess is most people do that? So, there was mystery to me.
We talked briefly - he said maybe 8 out 10 people deny, lie, make excuses, shift blame, etc. Kinda demeaning to both parties to my mind.
 
unsafervguy said:
You cannot lie when asked questions, but you are under no legal obligation to answer them, or aid an officer in his investigation.
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But an officer can lie during his questioning?

Is civics required in HS ?
 
Sundancer said:
LOL! I got a speeding ticket last spring, 51 in a 35, and it was legitimate. The cop asked me if I knew why he stopped me…
Click to expand...

At the Police Academy, we were told never to ask that. It sets the stage for a debate, prior to getting the license, registration and proof of insurance in hand. Even with those items in hand, it was to be avoided - it’s not a guessing game, and the officer knows why he stopped you and should just tell tell you. You’re free to contest it, but the proper venue for that is the courtroom, not the roadside.
 
Officer stopped me for running a stop sign. I told him there was no one coming so I slowed down and went, it wasn't a big deal. He told me the sign means "stop." I reiterated that I slowed down and nothing was coming so I went on. He insisted that the sign said "stop." I was again telling him that I thought slowing down was sufficient when he grabbed me in a headlock and began hitting me with his nightstick. I was trying to get a word in edgewise but he just kept saying, "do you want me to slow down or stop?" :dunno:
 
FastEddieB said:
At the Police Academy, we were told never to ask that. It sets the stage for a debate, prior to getting the license, registration and proof of insurance in hand. Even with those items in hand, it was to be avoided - it’s not a guessing game, and the officer knows why he stopped you and should just tell tell you. You’re free to contest it, but the proper venue for that is the courtroom, not the roadside.
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I believethe proper response to an officer asking if I k ew why i got pulled over is:

"If you don't know why you stopped me today, I'm not going to help you figure it out."
 
TCABM said:
Do high schools even offer driver’s ed anymore? Do those curriculums even go into behaviors during a traffic stop?

This is what we effectively told our kids at that age of their lives, about ten years ago.

1. Stop the car in a safe place as quickly as possible. Turn off the car, turn on the internal light, open the window part way and place your hands on the wheel.
2. Upon request, show police your driver's license, registration and proof of insurance.
3. If an officer asks to look inside your car, you can refuse to consent to the search. But if police believe your car contains evidence of a crime, your car can be searched without your consent.
4. Both drivers and passengers have the right to remain silent. If you are a passenger, you can ask if you are free to leave. If the officer says yes, sit silently or calmly leave. Even if the officer says no, you have the right to remain silent.
5. If the officer is in an unmarked car and not wearing a uniform, call 911 and ask for confirmation you are being lawfully detained.

All the above is backed up in the applicable state law.
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I taught driver Ed for 12 years in a public high school. We taught all that stuff, as well as having cops purposely pull us over. Good schools teach kids everything they need to know. There are some shifty schools out there -give us all a bad name.
 
The cops always tell me they stopped me for speeding. They usually ask if I know how fast I was going. I usually say no. I know what my speedo says, but not the absolute speed. Besides, if he clocked me after I was on the brakes, I’m sure as hell not telling him how fast I was going before that.

I’m always pleasant and don’t give them an attitude. That’s usually good for getting 5-10 MPH knocked off the ticket.

Not that I get pulled over often. Just been driving since the high beam switch was on the floor and we changed points and condensers once or twice a year.
 
I worked with a guy who said he was pulled over for speeding in his Porsche. He said when the cop told him he was doing 68 in a 55 he vehemently denied it. He told the cop no, absolutely not! He proceeded to tell the cop he was doing at least 75. He was lucky it was well received by the cop. Still got a ticket however.
 
DaleB said:
Not that I get pulled over often. Just been driving since the high beam switch was on the floor and we changed points and condensers once or twice a year.
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Reminds me of an Alabama joke (you could substitute any state you like): Alabama legislature passed a law requiring all new cars sold in the state to have the high beam switch on the floor. The reason is too many people were having accidents when their legs got caught in the steering wheel.

I would tell that in class (back in the 2000's) and at least half the class didn't get it.
 
donjohnston said:
Reminds me of an Alabama joke (you could substitute any state you like): Alabama legislature passed a law requiring all new cars sold in the state to have the high beam switch on the floor. The reason is too many people were having accidents when their legs got caught in the steering wheel.

I would tell that in class (back in the 2000's) and at least half the class didn't get it.
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Around here it's Iowa. Can't really use the joke any more, though, because most people have never seen a dimmer switch on the floor (or are too old to remember it).
 
The one thing I learned in Comedy Traffic School is the true meaning of this sign:

52861476076_ceb7361c6d_w.jpg


I always thought it had something to do with “Slippery When Wet”. Turns out it really means “CAUTION! Snakes Are Following Your Car!”
 
FastEddieB said:
The one thing I learned in Comedy Traffic School is the true meaning of this sign:

52861476076_ceb7361c6d_w.jpg


I always thought it had something to do with “Slippery When Wet”. Turns out it really means “CAUTION! Snakes Are Following Your Car!”
Click to expand...


I thought it was “drunk driver ahead.”
 
FastEddieB said:
At the Police Academy, we were told never to ask that. It sets the stage for a debate, prior to getting the license, registration and proof of insurance in hand. Even with those items in hand, it was to be avoided - it’s not a guessing game, and the officer knows why he stopped you and should just tell tell you. You’re free to contest it, but the proper venue for that is the courtroom, not the roadside.
Click to expand...
i agree completely. in this day and age with almost every officer wearing a body cam, it makes the job of the court very easy to determine if the officer had RAS, or was on a fishing trip. it also protects the officer when the statement on body cam matches exactly what is on the dash cam.
 
FastEddieB said:
At the Police Academy, we were told never to ask that. It sets the stage for a debate, prior to getting the license, registration and proof of insurance in hand. Even with those items in hand, it was to be avoided - it’s not a guessing game, and the officer knows why he stopped you and should just tell tell you. You’re free to contest it, but the proper venue for that is the courtroom, not the roadside.
Click to expand...
If memory serves he asked for the docs before asking if I knew why he stopped me. . .
 
Sundancer said:
If memory serves he asked for the docs before asking if I knew why he stopped me. . .
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I choose to take the initiative with an overly cheerful "Good afternoon officer. How can I help on this wonderful day?"
 
Since I have a carry permit and Michigan law requires that I disclose immediately if I am carrying, as soon as the officer approaches the window I yell, "I have a gun!!!"
 
EdFred said:
Since I have a carry permit and Michigan law requires that I disclose immediately if I am carrying, as soon as the officer approaches the window I yell, "I have a gun!!!"
Click to expand...

Really? I just chuck it out my window. That way, they know I can't reach it.
 
EdFred said:
Since I have a carry permit and Michigan law requires that I disclose immediately if I am carrying, as soon as the officer approaches the window I yell, "I have a gun!!!"
Click to expand...

Be brave and wave it out the window ... :D
 
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