NA Chevy beats Ford in total truck sales 2017

[Matthew K]

All this talk about new trucks just makes me want to find a decent older Ford with the 300 straight 6 and manual transmission, fix it up, and call it a day.

I have a nice blue 83' f100 with a 4 speed manual and the 300 straight 6. I'll consider offers

 

[SoonerAviator]

Are any of you familiar with this guys videos?

I watch him occasionally and came across this video. He made "some" fair points but others seemed misguided. He complained about the DEF regen on Ford as if all other diesels didn't do the same thing. I understand Ford has their problems, but in this video he seems to exaggerate a fair amount and didn't really talk about the facts, more just seemed to keep saying "ford sucks".

Lol, he had very little factual information in that video. The "regen" issue, as you mentioned, occurs with every modern diesel, no matter the brand. Also, having to plug in block heaters/blankets to help with cold weather starts has been the case with every diesel EVER. Diesel gels and compression-ignition engines don't like starting in cold weather, it's not a Ford thing, lol. He talked about never having an "Allison" transmission fail on him, but didn't list any vehicles he had that used an Allison tranny, hell he thought Dodge was the brand touting them instead of GM. Same goes for being able to work on and maintain his modern truck with all of its "technological advances". All of the modern diesel trucks are like that, it's not just Ford. He kept harping about poor fuel mileage versus what the sales guy told him . . . a sales guy is not a reliable source of data. Ford didn't "lie" about the EPA fuel mileage, and I can guarantee that. How do I know? I know because NO manufacturer of 3/4 ton and above vehicles displays EPA fuel mileage (even on a window sticker), because they aren't required to. Ford (or any other mfg) can't lie about fuel mileage it doesn't list data for.

 

[denverpilot]

All this talk about new trucks just makes me want to find a decent older Ford with the 300 straight 6 and manual transmission, fix it up, and call it a day.

Best Ford truck I ever had. If it had been even an extended cab instead of a standard cab, I would have kept it, but it was just too small for the crap everyone carries around with them every day.

It did an excellent job of running over a $4000 tape drive after an 80 hour week at the startup though, when I decided to take it home to figure out how to get it working on my home Linux box over the weekend to try to catch up that project that was two weeks behind. Haha. Oops. Company bought a new one and it showed up a week later when timing was a lot better to get that project finished up. Ahh the joys of building a start up. Haha.

Rich at DeBoss Garage in Canada has much better reasons for not liking Ford, but he admits that all manufacturers are headed the Ford direction and shops like his won’t exist in a generation.

I love these truck threads.

 

[Zeldman]

All this talk about new trucks just makes me want to find a decent older Ford with the 300 straight 6 and manual transmission, fix it up, and call it a day.

I had a '75 Ford 3/4 ton van that started life as a Sears service vehicle. It had the 300 motor and a three on the tree. I used it to pull my dirt track cars. Later on I put a 4 speed in it out of a Mustang, then a 5 speed. Then I put an aluminum intake with a 4 BBL carburetor on it. Then that winter we designed and built a hedder for it. With a 4:10 rear gear it pulled my trailer just fine.

Funny part is with the add on goodies it got better gas mileage, and it was a heck of a lot of fun to drive. Too bad we out grew it. It is probably being used as a chicken coop in Mexico now.

 

[Matthew K]

it got better gas mileage

How many gallons per mile did you get it down to? ...seriously though my stock f100 gets 14mpg when its only cargo is me.

 

[Zeldman]

How many gallons per mile did you get it down to? ...seriously though my stock f100 gets 14mpg when its only cargo is me.

With the 5 speed and no trailer, and the speed limit was 55 back then, but at 60 empty it would get 19-20 MPG on the highway, lower in the hills and about 12-14 towing. Now we were racers and there was a time or two we may have exceeded the speed limit..... and we didn't care much about gas mileage at the time.

The ignition wasn't stock and we did a lot of work to the carb, which was a vacuum secondary 600 CFM and we had a custom made cam shaft for high torque, low RPM use. We limited the motor to 5500 RPM.

Gallons per mile was the 454 we built for the C-60 that we upgraded to when we needed more truck to pull the enclosed trailer. When the speed limit went back up, the 454 got about 9 MPG at speed loaded.

 

[denverpilot]

Gallons per mile was the 454 we built for the C-60 that we upgraded to when we needed more truck to pull the enclosed trailer. When the speed limit went back up, the 454 got about 9 MPG at speed loaded.

Dad’s late 90’s Suburban he left us when he passed — that he rarely drove but was his “haul everything” monster — had the optional Vortec 8100 in it and was the 3/4 ton version (they badged then the “2500” back then) with the four speed automatic and 4WD.

Never seen a vehicle so consistent at 6 MPG no matter whether it was loaded or unloaded.

I make a lot of fun of not being fuel economy minded but even I couldn’t justify driving that thing. What a beast.

We sold it on Craigslist and that’s a story in and of itself. I figured the Russian Mob was buying it, and they’d probably just beat me and make off with it from the WalMart parking lot after saying in a thick Russian accent that they wanted to meet me at 10PM. Then another older Chevy pickup truck with three HUGE dudes in it pulls up.

I relaxed only after I realized it was a big huge burly Russian immigrant and his two teenage sons, and after they looked over the thing (which dad bought used and was immaculate, other than just being old) they shared that they moved to the States, had a family handyman business that all three worked in, and they just loved old Chevy trucks. They didn’t care in the slightest that it got 6 MPG. It was their “‘Merica” thing to them.

Old guy handed me a wad of cash and his son drove off in that truck with a grin from ear to ear. I doubt they’ve switched to driving Prius-es (Prii?). Hahaha.

Could put more crap inside that thing than in the bed of my longbed HD Dodge, and it would be inside out of the elements. What a beast that thing was.

If they didn’t wreck it, I’m sure it’s probably still out there running. I doubt you could kill that thing if you tried.

Only thing I didn’t like about it was the broken latch to hold open one of the huge barn doors on the back. Never bothered to fix it, but it would have been a cheap and easy fix. I just carried a stick and jammed it in the door to hold that side open when I needed both sides open wide. One side was usually plenty to load nearly anything.

It’s too bad nobody could even think of making an enclosed SUV that big ever again with the mandates for fuel economy being what they are. It was cavernous. Like if something slid forward with all the seats down, you ere going for a long crawl on all fours to go retrieve it after climbing up in there. Ha.

Maybe we should have kept it. Dunno. Pretty happy with no having kept it but not 100% happy about it. Maybe 70/30. There’s days when that thing would be the perfect hauler of stuff, but they’re pretty few and far between.

I had borrowed it for projects over the years from him before he passed and a few mountain top radio site trips as well. Putting that thing in 4WD Low to climb a hill and watching a nearly 7000 lb SUV just walk up said hill in sand, mud, or snow, was impressive. It didn’t care.

The only problem it had was negotiating switchbacks on Forest Service roads. That was often a two point maneuver. But then again, it was for all the techs who drove long bed pickups up there to those radio sites, too.

That engine was just a huge fuel hog in an even more ridiculous SUV body. Kinda fun in a way, except at the gas station. I can’t remember a full up ever being less than $70 and if it was really empty it pushed $100 easy.

 

[denverpilot]

P.S. maybe it was 8 MPG now that I think about it. Always so traumatic to the wallet at the gas pump, 6... 8... what’s the difference. LOL.

 

[SoonerAviator]

Dad’s late 90’s Suburban he left us when he passed — that he rarely drove but was his “haul everything” monster . . .That engine was just a huge fuel hog in an even more ridiculous SUV body. Kinda fun in a way, except at the gas station. I can’t remember a full up ever being less than $70 and if it was really empty it pushed $100 easy.

The Ford Excursion and Ford Centurions were about the same size. Just cavernous interior volumes. I’d love to have an Excursion with the 7.3L diesel. All of them were tanks, lol.

Ford C350 "Centurion"

Ford Excursion

'90s Suburban

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[denverpilot]

The Ford Excursion and Ford Centurions were about the same size. Just cavernous interior volumes. I’d love to have an Excursion with the 7.3L diesel.


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Ted had the gasser. Those weren’t bad either. But a 7.3 diesel version was a nice truck. I don’t think it was quite as bulletproof overall as the 3/4 ton Suburban but close. Even the driveshaft on that thing looked like a tree trunk. Hahaha.

The transfer case was solid but the electronics for shifting it were crap, a regular and repetitive Chevy mistake. If it wasn’t vacuum leaks killing 4WD, it was bad electronic encoders.

My own Yukon suffered that stupid problem also, but it was a cheap fix. $100 and a new encoder.

Of course I tried replacing the sender and buttons in the cab first without testing because I was lazy, so that added a useless $40 more to the repair, but the new one looked better so I left it. Lights were brighter. Yay Dorman crap made in Mexico! LOL. $40 worth of better looking backlights and LED indicators.

There are things AC Delco can’t, and never did do right, and cabin electronics was on top of that list. Hahaha.

I noticed that someone sells alkaline AA batteries labeled “AC Delco” on Amazon the other day. There’s a whole generation of people who’d never ever buy those things, even if they are just the same batteries everyone else has made and stickers slapped on them for brand names in some no-name plant in China. Haha.

But purposefully but anything that handles anything electric or electronics from AC Delco? Never. LOL.

 

[Bill]

Dad’s late 90’s Suburban he left us when he passed — that he rarely drove but was his “haul everything” monster — had the optional Vortec 8100 in it and was the 3/4 ton version (they badged then the “2500” back then) with the four speed automatic and 4WD.

Never seen a vehicle so consistent at 6 MPG no matter whether it was loaded or unloaded.

My parents had an '81 Suburban, 3/4 ton, 454 rat motor, trailering special, 4:10 gears. It got 8 mpg, period. City? 8mpg. Highway? 8mpg. Unloaded with just the driver? 8mpg. Loaded with 6 people, vacation stuff, towing a 26' Prowler travel trailer? 8mph.

Eight miles per gallon. Period.

 

[denverpilot]

Oh no. No new truck banter today... I’m going to have withdrawals. Hahaha

 

[Timbeck2]

Best Ford truck I ever had. If it had been even an extended cab instead of a standard cab, I would have kept it, but it was just too small for the crap everyone carries around with them every day.

It did an excellent job of running over a $4000 tape drive after an 80 hour week at the startup though, when I decided to take it home to figure out how to get it working on my home Linux box over the weekend to try to catch up that project that was two weeks behind. Haha. Oops. Company bought a new one and it showed up a week later when timing was a lot better to get that project finished up. Ahh the joys of building a start up. Haha.

Rich at DeBoss Garage in Canada has much better reasons for not liking Ford, but he admits that all manufacturers are headed the Ford direction and shops like his won’t exist in a generation.

I love these truck threads.

What are you talking about Nate? tape drives, startup, Linux box?

Don't be bringin' geek **it into a truck thread.

 

[Zeldman]

Dad’s late 90’s Suburban he left us when he passed — that he rarely drove but was his “haul everything” monster — had the optional Vortec 8100 in it and was the 3/4 ton version (they badged then the “2500” back then) with the four speed automatic and 4WD.

Never seen a vehicle so consistent at 6 MPG no matter whether it was loaded or unloaded.

I make a lot of fun of not being fuel economy minded but even I couldn’t justify driving that thing. What a beast.

We sold it on Craigslist and that’s a story in and of itself. I figured the Russian Mob was buying it, and they’d probably just beat me and make off with it from the WalMart parking lot after saying in a thick Russian accent that they wanted to meet me at 10PM. Then another older Chevy pickup truck with three HUGE dudes in it pulls up.

I relaxed only after I realized it was a big huge burly Russian immigrant and his two teenage sons, and after they looked over the thing (which dad bought used and was immaculate, other than just being old) they shared that they moved to the States, had a family handyman business that all three worked in, and they just loved old Chevy trucks. They didn’t care in the slightest that it got 6 MPG. It was their “‘Merica” thing to them.

Old guy handed me a wad of cash and his son drove off in that truck with a grin from ear to ear. I doubt they’ve switched to driving Prius-es (Prii?). Hahaha.

Could put more crap inside that thing than in the bed of my longbed HD Dodge, and it would be inside out of the elements. What a beast that thing was.

If they didn’t wreck it, I’m sure it’s probably still out there running. I doubt you could kill that thing if you tried.

Only thing I didn’t like about it was the broken latch to hold open one of the huge barn doors on the back. Never bothered to fix it, but it would have been a cheap and easy fix. I just carried a stick and jammed it in the door to hold that side open when I needed both sides open wide. One side was usually plenty to load nearly anything.

It’s too bad nobody could even think of making an enclosed SUV that big ever again with the mandates for fuel economy being what they are. It was cavernous. Like if something slid forward with all the seats down, you ere going for a long crawl on all fours to go retrieve it after climbing up in there. Ha.

Maybe we should have kept it. Dunno. Pretty happy with no having kept it but not 100% happy about it. Maybe 70/30. There’s days when that thing would be the perfect hauler of stuff, but they’re pretty few and far between.

I had borrowed it for projects over the years from him before he passed and a few mountain top radio site trips as well. Putting that thing in 4WD Low to climb a hill and watching a nearly 7000 lb SUV just walk up said hill in sand, mud, or snow, was impressive. It didn’t care.

The only problem it had was negotiating switchbacks on Forest Service roads. That was often a two point maneuver. But then again, it was for all the techs who drove long bed pickups up there to those radio sites, too.

That engine was just a huge fuel hog in an even more ridiculous SUV body. Kinda fun in a way, except at the gas station. I can’t remember a full up ever being less than $70 and if it was really empty it pushed $100 easy.

The 8.1 was hands down winner of the worst gas mileage ever. But it pulled and pulled.

 

[SoonerAviator]

The 8.1 was hands down winner of the worst gas mileage ever. But it pulled and pulled.

Lol it should with 496cu.in. and 450ft-lbs of torque in stock form! The Ford v10 had the same HP/Tq on a 6.8L engine, but it's not as bulletproof as a good 'ol pushrod BBC.

 

[denverpilot]

What are you talking about Nate? tape drives, startup, Linux box?

Don't be bringin' geek **it into a truck thread.

It was kinda like a little monster truck rally in the tech startup parking lot at 1AM. C’mon.

 

[GLMS_NC]

We can point flaws in all directions. Ford's Triton motors were classic for blowing and cracking spark plugs. GM has laid a couple golden eggs with engines and transmissions too. Google it and you'll see more than you can read and comprehend.

1. GM - Mexican built V8's. Hope you got Government Motors to fix under warranty, but I bet you were unsuccessful.
2. Transmission, including the most recent model years in more vehicles than pick-ups (ruff shift points). Brand new - TSB's to say do nothing but live with it.

We don't have to get into the car motor or transmission successes, like the Nortstar V8, the Oldsmobile Gas/Diesel debacle or the ever popular V8-6-4 of Cadillac. We also won't mention the Vega motor as that was too long ago. Those were all Emmy award winners of engineering success.

I just sold my boat with a 1988 351W with ZERO electronics. Never let me down, easier to repair, Holley 650CFM 4bbl, and set the points manually. Those were the days when a motor would run forever. Nothing today does, but Toyo and Honda come close.

The Toyota Tundra V8 is damn durable (horrible with gas mileage), and Honda makes excellent engines, albeit no V8. You can't beat the build quality or service history for either of those manufactures.

Back to regular programming...

 

[SoonerAviator]

I still run a boat with a 351W and 4bbl (Edelbrock) carb. I did get rid of the old points for an electronic dizzy. No loss of performance and no need to set clean points/dwell each year. I still keep the points in a bag for a backup if the electronic dizzy failed on the water. Keep it simple!


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[denverpilot]

Just to totally blow up a truck thread....

I mean, with the right connectors and a big inverter, it could also be hooked to the house in a power outage to run the lights and the well pump... hmmm...

Redneck Prius backyard generator...

 

[denverpilot]

Okay, since the Prius killed the thread... Hahaha...

Check out this NICE old beast... started life with a diesel, someone swapped the Oldsmobile 350 into it... current bid $2400... amazing...

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1978-chevrolet-cheyanne-1500-pickup/

Almost tempted to throw a small raise on the bid on it. It'd be fun to drive around in for a while and then sell it. Or weld a snowplow on the front of it... hahaha... almost too nice to do that to it...

 

[denverpilot]

And Dodge is moving production of the Ram Heavy Duty back from Mexico to Michigan...

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/...y-duty-is-returning-to-the-united-states.html

Apparently Michigan finally became a cheaper economic depression area than Mexico, so we can build trucks there again?

LOL... 'merica!

 

[Zeldman]

Check out this NICE old beast... started life with a diesel, someone swapped the Oldsmobile 350 into it... current bid $2400... amazing...

I would give 2400 for it, if it had the original diesel in it. Those Olds 350 diesels were crap back then because people would continue to fill their diesel pickup with gasoline.

The olds 350 diesel have a small, but strong following. There are modifications that need to be done but people are getting about 25 MPG out of them now in full size, that is the old full size vehicles without computers.

 

[denverpilot]

I would give 2400 for it, if it had the original diesel in it. Those Olds 350 diesels were crap back then because people would continue to fill their diesel pickup with gasoline.

The olds 350 diesel have a small, but strong following. There are modifications that need to be done but people are getting about 25 MPG out of them now in full size, that is the old full size vehicles without computers.

Yeah it must have had a problem and someone tossed a cheap small block in there. But for what that truck is today, it’s all good.

I chuckled that on the video his buddy said it isn’t burning oil and then it puffed a little out of both tailpipes but no big deal.

It appears from comments they can’t easily sell it locally because the brains of their local emissions people might explode trying to figure out what to do with a VIN that comes up as a diesel converter to a gasser. LOL

 

[denverpilot]

Meanwhile just to pick on Chevy...

If this is all Chevy’s got, in *2019*...

They’re screwed.

That thing literally has the same interior as my ‘04 Yukon which was dated and old in ‘04.

I loved when the guy babbled about doing aluminum panels and then quickly switched to saying “mixed materials” to lighten the thing 450 lbs! ROFLMAO. Yeah, Ford handed your butt to you on that one.

Other funnies from the interview... the new plastic job boxes trying to copy Dodge, INSIDE the bed. Oh those will be GREAT when you fill the bed and can’t get to your effing tools inside them.

And those bumper steps on the corners. In the SAME video take the guy says they had to make them bigger so people could get effing work boots into them, and THEN... he says it’s a plus that they hid an expensive lane change sensor inside of them instead of mounting them inside the brake lights like Ford, which makes “brake light repairs expensive”?! You’re litterally going to KICK the thing in there, you morons! I’ve replaced ONE truck brake light assembly in over two decades and never saw a signal family member ever replace one. This one wins the “ultra stupid” award for the sales guy for sure.

Interior, they still do one thing tight. Column shifter. Why Ford MUST waste useful interior space with a floor shifter, is beyond me... and no, I don’t want push buttons either. The column shifter is perfect and why American truck companies moved away from it, is beyond me. Put it back. Points for Chevy for keeping it.

The entire rest of the truck is “Meh” plus gadgets. Really poorly done gadgets at that.

Those little tiny toggles for all the features that are just wide enough to be a chrome bezel? That crap is going to break. And it’s a TRUCK... I want to operate stuff in the cab with big fat freaking leather gloves on. So stupid. It’s not a damned Buick Park Avenue, kids. Chrome or not, the stuff in there needs to work with people who do work.

The TFL guy’s crawling under the truck trying to see the DEF tank without checking to see if Chevy even installed the thing yet, was hilarious. And nope. No DEF tank yet on the demo truck and ZERO information about drive trains other than “Yeah, we need to copy Ford and have ten-speed transmissions, so we’ll, um... have some...”.

Pitiful showing by Chevy. Ford is going to kick their butts in 2018/2019. Especially with the Ranger coming... well maybe.

The new Ranger looks like a fat ass for the mid sized market segment, definitely not sleek or small.

 

[denverpilot]

And to cover the Ranger...

The major mistake I see here is the open front differential. Otherwise, this truck is going to blow the Colorado/Canyon out of the water in 2019.

Also not a fan of them not doing a long bed four door (er, two door with rear clamshells, actually), but I can see why they’d only do two body styles to START.

The lane assist radar claim that the radar in the tail lights will work with a 33’ trailer is total BS, too. The geometry of towing a wide trailer behind the mid sized truck will mean the radar is completely blocked. And nobody makes narrow 33’ trailers. Just flat out BS by Ford. It’ll work fine with narrow utility trailers.

Still... depending on price/value this looks like a damn nice mid sized truck. I suspect however that Ford will overprice it, making it compete with the lower end F-150 with better engine options, which will hurt sales at first. How they fix that will determine the long term king of midsize.

Pretty cool stuff coming. Of course, I’ll still be driving my hoopties, but I love watching this stuff. Ha.

 

[Zeldman]

Too bad IH doesn't still make pickups....

 

[Gerhardt]

I read about the Ranger first thing this morning and was surprised. I thought the executives who killed the U.S. Ranger a few years ago should have been canned. They still made the Ranger in other countries but wanted to force buyers to the F150 here domestically, which makes no sense. They did it at a time when junior truck sales were exploding. What they did was drive a lot of people to other brands. People who won't return to Ford. I doubt I will. I never had a Ranger that didn't develop a dozen rattles in the dash the minute the warranty expired. Other than my beef with Chrysler I don't really care what brand I drive. I've owned several Rangers and thought they were fine other than the rattles. Like Bill said, the smaller trucks serve the needs of about 80% of truck owners.

I migrated to the GMC Canyon (aka Chevy Colorado) and like it a lot. The Tacomas are just as nice, so I really don't have a big preference. I'm just glad Ford finally realized their mistake and is acting to rectify it. For the sole reason that, like Sears, I hate to see an iconic American company go under because of their own stupidity.